I have not been camping or backpacking for many years, and have been thinking about getting back into it. I've just started researching gear. As I live in an apartment I have limited storage space, and cannot devote space to gear tailored for separate climates.
Does any manufacturer of sleeping bags make a bag which can be used in multiple climates ie, by adding or removing layers to the bags.

Stephenson's does (www.warmlite.com), but they are very expensive. You could also wear clothes to bed to help supplement your sleeping bag.

What kind of temps are you going to be dealing with?

Norman,

It would be best if you gave the range you are looking to cover. There are only 2 manufacturers(warmlite and big agnes) that I know of that offer some sort of a system. Then there are always clothing layers and bivies and then your choice of tent or tarp...well what I am trying to say is that there are too many unknown variables, atleast for me, to offer an educated recommendation. I am sure with a little more information you will get plenty of opinions.

Cheers!!!

JB

Edited by anywayoutside on 10/19/2008 19:30:36 MDT.

As others have pointed out, warmlite and big agnes make layer solutions... but I am not sure how much storage space this will save over other options:

0) Layer with things that aren't officially a system. For example, a minimalism down quilt and a larger synthetic quilt which can be used in mild but wet conditions, or as an over quilt to keep moisture from condensing inside the down bag in colder weather.

1) Get a middle of the road bag and supplement with clothing. The colder the expected conditions the warmer clothing you are going to take. So choice a bag that is just warm enough combined with your warm clothing. For me, a 20F bag or quilt would cover my needs between -10F and 75F. On warm summer days the bag would be a bit warm and heavy, but with proper ventilation it would work fine.

2) Go with two bags... one that is tailored to your coldest needs, and a second that is as slight as possible for your most common needs. For me, that's a 2lb sleeping bag which I can use by itself to 0F, and a 1lb quilt I can use down to 30F.

3) Use your sleeping bag / quilt as a bed quilt at home. Then it takes up no storage space :-)

--mark

Edited by verber on 10/19/2008 18:41:48 MDT.

Mark,
Yeah, I agree 100%. And you can match properly shaped quilts as well as s-bags. A 3-season quilt with a summer quilt makes a winter quilt that would weigh something like 8-12 ounces more than a dedicated winter quilt with the same loft.

An approach I'm considering is using my lightweight 3-season down bag (30-35 degrees) and adding a homemade Primaloft quilt over the top for winter conditions.

Presently, I'm using said down bag augmented with lofty clothing - a down vest helps a lot - that I bring to wear around camp mornings and evenings. I'm using this approach this Autumn and hope to get this little bag down to 0 degrees F with high-loft jacket, pants and vest.

The Primaloft quilt has the advantage, when used over the top of a down bag in freezing conditions, of moving the dew point out into the synthetic insulation, where it won't degrade the quilt's loft. However, I am concerned with the quilt's weight compressing the underlying down bag - an effect I don't have to worry about with the clothing-inside approach.

For super cold conditions I plan to experiment with using my down bag (a Montbell Super Stretch) inside my wife's bag (same model). The stretch of the Montbell bags appears to allow this without compressing the down of either bag, but I haven't had a chance to test this 'system'.

In any case, I don't plan on buying another bag.

Josh,

I've been thinking the same thing(down bag plus Primaloft quilt), with the same concerns. Could you keep us updated on how this works out for you?

Thanks, Rod

I've used the RAB top bag over a WM linelite in winter. When just those bags, it worked with three people in an enclosed winter tent down to 0 degrees farenheit. I figure the setup is really good to 20 degrees, but with three people in a tent, there is alot of heat produced.

I would just buy ONE bag, suited to the lower range of temps. you will encounter and vent it with the zippers in warmer weather. I did this for some years when young and a student as I could not afford the "arsenal" of bags, etc., that I now have.

I used an original Marmot Mtn. -30 GT and down bag which I had made for me in 1978 for 3-4 years as my major bag and I slept comfortably in this, inside various GT bivies and tents, from -41*F to into the 60+*F range, just by venting and laying on top of it, inside my Early Winters bivies, on really warm nights in July/Aug.

I only bought a couple of other bags as I prefer a very light synthetic for emergency use when hunting and a light Camp Seven down to save weight on summer trips.

So, for most North American use, something like a WM Versalite, Apache, Kodiak or Caribou or an Integral Designs Sierra or the new Valandre Bloody Mary would be ideal, with a bivy or in a tent.

I've been experimenting with a sleep system based on a lightweight down bag and a synthetic quilt over it when the need arises.

I use a Rab Quantum Top Bag, the one with the Pertex Quantum base. I put my Thermarest Ridge Rest, cut to fit, inside the Top Bag as recommended. This works, and cuts out any draughts. I usually wear a wool beanie and wool sox too.

When it is warm, I'm in this and a hiking shirt/ shorts- when cooler, I wear Icebreaker wool long johns and a Icebreaker Mondo Zip wool top. This does me down to about 5- 10 degrees C (40-50 F).

Cooler nights than this (due to season or altitude) see me in my Patagonia Micro Puff jersey, and I also take my MLD 2 Thirds XP Quilt made of Momentum and Climashield XP. The lowest I have been down to was 0C (32F) this weekend, and I wasn't wearing the Patagonia, I only had the quilt over my legs and mid torso.

I sleep in a SMD Serenity Net Tent inside my Golite Shangri-La 3 pitched high to avoid condensation. Under me, I always put a full length Pashmina Shawl for insulation and comfort.

It's a flexible system, and I could probably take it lower than I have, but generally don't hike overnight much in the winter. If I did, I'd use my heavy 3/4 season Paddy Palin down bag instead of the Top Bag and Quilt. I sleep warm, and my temperature and the outside temperature changes a lot during the night, and I've never had a comfy night in my old 3/4 season bag- I always woke up sweating and clammy- even with venting. YMMV.

When it's warmer, I can sleep under the quilt on top of the Top Bag, and crawl in when the night gets cooler.

I've still got layer options with the wind jacket and Pertex wind pants as an option if things get really cold, but so far, I haven't had to use them as well as everything else.

I haven't found putting the quilt over the down bag impairs performance due to loft suppression, and I always have the option of wearing the quilt in the bag if need be.

As far as storage goes- I live in a small apartment in Barcelona, and store most of my gear in the rucksack, and the sleeping bag in the storage bag it came with, which doesn't take up much room at all.

Weight of Top Bag/ Quilt combo- 650g
Weight of 3/4 season bag- 1.5kg (it's an oldie, but a goodie)

I learned how to do all this from reading this site, so thanks to everyone.
I hope all this helps.

Matt's suggestion is great: use clothing to adjust a cool bag.
Deweys's is great too: Use zippers to cool a warm bag.

If wearing an insulation layer inside, check to see if you have enough room.

If you will be camping in the trees, it can be much warmer than exposed because you are exchanging heat with them in addition to the Great Void. Dry versus damp ground. Etc.
Where are you thinking of packing? There are places/seasons where a synthetic bag is greatly preferable. I have heard that Epic pores freeze and plug in very cold conditions.

Although not a big fan of quilts, my most flexible bag is a Big Agnes Moon Hill 0'F because it has just a pad sleeve on the bottom, no insulation. It can be used upside down for barely any heat, or use it right side up with different pads. It weighs about 2.25 pounds and I got it cheap. Quite roomy, which is great for medium temps.

Another way to adjust temps is by shifting the down from above you to the side, or even bottom if the baffles allow.
WM Versalite 10'F. is an example of continuous baffles. 2 lb. Expensive.

Sleeping with hot water bottles.

A separate primaloft or down balaclava-style hood. Very versatile around camp, and keeps me from wanting to breathe inside the bag.

Windblocking is critical with the Versalite, as the fabric is soo thin. Bivy, tarp, or tent adds 5 degrees, depending.

Wood fires can burn holes in gear with their little sparks, so not ideal for all night warmth.

Then there is the snow cave! I HATE the Snow Claw, but works better than a frisbee.

Edited by Paul_Tree on 10/20/2008 11:08:45 MDT.

I have very limited experience with this "system" but did use it 2x with wonderful results: Using my 3 season Highlite bag inside of my cold weather Ultralite bag, I did push temps near 5-6° F on S. Rim Grand Canyon. Using no shelter, slept on a BAIAC combined w/ a 1/4 ccf pad. Slept in only nylon pants and a poly t-shirt. stayed very warm.
This was the only system I had, and I would use it again if need be. However, both bags have a slim cut so luckily im a skinny dude and the loft of either bag was not compromised. Anyway, around here the temps rarely dip below 20° so i never had a need for a "winter" bag. I use quilts now, but they wont do much good on the ground. (slim cut, designed for hammock use)

Edited by mikeinfhaz on 10/20/2008 11:27:58 MDT.

I don't have much useful to add, so I'll throw out something totally different just for fun -

Get a bigger apartment. You'll eventually need it when the gear addition bug bites hard. ;^)

Alternately, you can throw out half your furniture and just use large totes for of gear for coffee table, dining table, etc.

Just (halfway) kidding - the ideas so far are all good.

Hey Rod,

Will do.

Josh

Nice - bigger apartment.... I had to laugh at that one.

Been thinking about Canada (Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, Alberta) and Scottish Highlands in summer so temps could be in 40's up to 70's??. I think idea of light bag and just wear warm clothes inside isn't so bad for that. Wouldn't mind doing the AT in Spring thru Fall.
Did it once in November, think it was Blue Ridge Mountains in W.VA., with a plastic sheet for a tent and it got into the 40's. Again guess the temps would be 40's up.

Not sure I'd want to do any winter hiking, though I do like the wild in winter. I have a problem with extreme cold - my knees start getting painful below freezing and freeze up when it gets into the sub zero range.

If you're expecting temps 40F-70F you really wouldn't ever need more than one bag. The quilt idea would certainly be worth considering; the quilt plus a hooded insulated jacket and pants would cover your expected temp range with a nice margin built in. I've used a Marmot Hydrogen with my clothing layers, including a hooded down pullover, to 19F and could have gone to probably 10F. Plenty warm, and the quilt and jacket are multi-use, since they can be used daily at home in colder weather. No storage issues!

For a summer bag in Canada, especially parts of Newfoundland, I would use a top quality bag rated to 20*F and even 10*F is a good idea. I have experienced a number of severe June, July and August snow storms with temps BELOW 20*F in southern Canada and my WM Alpenlite Super is the lightest bag I feel comfortable with for ths use.

I TRIED a FF bag rated to 32*F starting in 1989 to save weight on solo alpine hunts and used this extensively on long Rocky Mountain sojourns of 5+ months alone in the bush. This was on fire lookouts, so, I had the shelter of a cabin and it worked, BUT, it did not keep me warm enough outside on a number of nights and I am used to cold weather and sleep "warmer", than almost anyone I have ever known.

It is a LOT colder in Canada than many people realize and this is compounded if you are going "UL" and using only a tarp for shelter. My favourite "all around" bag for Canadian conditions has rapidly become the Valandre Shocking Blue, but, their newest model, the Bloody Mary seems absolutely perfect for Canadian backpacking.

I would go along with Mark Verber's comments. I use my bag as the comforter on my bed when it is cold outside. Taking a 30F bag with a full zipper allows you to get to that 30F temp and about 15F lower using a bivy and insulated clothes. Unzip the bag and use it as a quilt for up to about 60F. If the bag becomes to warm, just stop using it and sleep in your insulated clothes in the bivy. You can also get a synthetic quilt to drop the bottom end as little lower and have a mid point about 45F where you could just use the quilt. Personally I would just use the a 30F down bag and make yourself a breatheable bivy. For insulated clothes I would go with synthetics like the Patagonia Micro Puff Pulllover and just wear them because when you go out for the day they are at the outer end of the layers and have a chance to dry or defunk if need be.

Using a driducks poncho as the top of homemade bivies is being suggested now in another thread, sounds awesome!!