Companion forum thread to:

Six Moon Designs Refuge/Refuge X Tent Review

I want the 'X' version so badly, but they are sold out :(

I'll let Ron give specifics, but when I asked them to be put on the waiting list, I received a reply from SMD stating that the Refuge X will be going through some revisions before being re-released, and it will be available late winter.

15.8 oz is just crazy for a 2 person shelter like this.

Under the 'What is not so good' it is mentioned that the floor is not a bathtub design. Does this really matter? I mean, most tarp and floorless shelter users get around it quite nicely.

You wrote "To find a possible solution, I put the grip end of the trekking pole against the seam of the ridgeline and beak and found that greater tension was much easier to achieve."

Is the Ridgeline the line at the top of the tent, down the length? This means then, as I read it, that you had the hiking pole righted up, with the pointed end on the ground then. But the photos below this sentence shows the opposite. Can you help unconfuse me? Thanks.

ps - in the field, if you saw the wear in the mesh at the corner like you photographed, how would you field-repair that? Just curious. How would you reinforce/repair it at home then? Have you done such and can you present a photo of that? Thanks again!

Roleigh

hi everyone,

I think the image near that statement best shows things in regards to my ridgeline comment. Yes, the pole was flipped with the tip down and the grip placed at the ridge/beak junction. This eliminates the beaks from the pitch which makes a taut pitch easier to achieve. I hope this clears things up a bit.

I did not attempt a repair because I saw it unnecessary. I suppose I'd use duct tape or something similar in the field. But I'd love to hear someone else's idea should this become a larger issue.

I agree that the bathtub floor is not a necessity. However, a bathtub floor does have some advantages and the ground-level mesh does pose some issues that needed to be addressed.

Last, I can't wait to hear about future improvements on this design!

Best, Doug

Thanks for the comments Doug.

Hey - we come to YOU to find out about all of the next generation improvements :)

You can achieve taut stability thru the rain/dew stretch of silnyl by using Self Tensioning Lines.... Might be a nice addition.... Pair of JRB STL for example is 22 grams and that is with 9.5 ft of length...If shortened to about 5 ft they would come in at about 8 grams each or 16 grams for the pair.

Remember that I'm biased ... But fact is, these are very popular with hammock campers or their tarps.

Pan

I have since added my own bathtub floor to my Refuge-X. As noted in one trial where it was left pitched in heavy rain, there is a tendency for the water to "wick" underneath the edges and drip down the mesh onto the floor. It is also difficult NOT to roll over onto the side mesh perimeter when there are two people side-by-side. I made the bathtub floor "floating" so that it can be rolled back in fine weather.

As for the ridgeline, I came to the same conclusion as Doug. My solution was to sew a strip of gossgrain running from the edge of the ridgeline to the pole grommet. I made these two strips slightly shorter than the actual lenngth of the vent, so that when you tighten the pole guylines, the force is applied directly to the ridgeline via the grossgrain. Hope that makes sense.

I am also contemplating moving the mesh perimeter to prevent it from touching the ground (ala Lunar solo). This would decrease the chance for abrasion and stop the rain wicking under, but at the cost of some currently nice useable real estate. I think the mesh perimeter is part of what makes this tent feel so spacious (it's somewhere to put the dog and packs).

Finally (photos to follow), I have rigged up an MLD cuben poncho/tarp as an awesome rain porch over the door of the Refuge. This turns a refuge into a mansion!! 20 oz total, including rain porch, bathtub floor and extra stakes. Not bad for two people...

Edited by retropump on 10/15/2008 13:13:55 MDT.

Allison, you're going to also provide photos and explain how you gave the Refuge a bathtub floor too, I hope. How much weight difference was involved? When you mentioned the cuben fiber poncho plus bathtub floor only added 4.x oz, that is impressive. I thought the poncho itself was 4 oz, right? (going by memory, here).

Thanks.

Roleigh, I'll put up some photos soon. My Refuge-X came in at under 16oz (435 grams), and my poncho was under 4oz too (106 grams, whatever that works out at). Maybe just lucky, but I think both manufacturers include the weight of the guylines in their quoted weights. The guyline that came with the poncho was much more heavy duty than I needed, so I swapped it for some not much thicker than dental floss!! I also didn't include the weight of the stuff sacks as I don't use them.

...

Edited by svenklingemann on 10/20/2008 08:53:09 MDT.

Doug you have the coolest avatar pic around!!!

Thanks Ken! That's my son Henry- he's been on 6 backpacking trips now, at the fine age of 2.5 years. :-)

Ultralight backpacking even made it possible for the two of us to do a father-son backpack- I carried the pack, all our gear, and my 30 pound kid...my pack was about 45 pounds total for a couple of days.

Best, Doug

Amazing tent. Anyone have any comments after using this for the past year or two? Is it holding up? Delighting you?

Unfortunately, Dan, your question may be to little avail. This tent is no longer in stock and inventory will not be refreshed and I'm not sure the 2nd generation will ever be made as a tent. When I contacted Ron Moak, his current thinking if my memory is right, is that the 2nd generation when it happens, with his then thinking (which of course can change) would be to make it into a floorless tent with people who want to get a tent, having to buy the netting/floor option similar to what he has for the gatewood cape (it probably would be wider). As I figure things, the 2nd generation will be closer to 1.25 to 1.5 pounds in that combo-arrangement.

I was all set to order a 2nd generation Refuge-X tent but not sure anymore. I currently have the Gossamer Gear Squall Classic and Tarptent Silnylon tents and will probably continue just to stay with them.

I do hope that somebody comes out with a 1 lb 2 person tent in 2010 using Cuben Fiber (and hopefully a colored Cuben Fiber--I was not crazy about the clear color).

I now own a Refuge X and I've got a few chances to use it so I have some comments to share.

1) I made a 1.3oz silnylon footprint for this tent which weighs 6oz total. I designed the footprint to be just a little smaller that the outer edges of the tent, so that even if you roll onto the mesh you won't contact the potentially wet ground. I also added a few extra tie outs to the footprint so that it can alternatively be used a tarp. This is real spouse pleaser. If we get to camp and it's pouring rain, I can set up the 104" x 48-60" tarp over our cooking/sitting area and then later I can slip it under the Refuge X when we go to bed.

2) Regarding setting up the tent and getting the ridgeline taut, the length of the trekking pole used is a significant factor in this. Due to the design of the tent, a shorter pole (~105cm) that is level with the top of the tent will give you a taut ridgeline, but the sides will sag a bit in the middle since the line of tension runs through the ridge rather than across the sides to the opposite corner. If you use a longer pole (115cm) you can get perfectly taut sides, but you'll have a lot of slop in the ridgeline. The ideal setup is to set your poles just long enough to get the sides taut. The ridgeline won't be drum tight but it will have the minimum possible slop while having tight sides. Tight sides is more important that a taut ridgeline because non-taut sides sag inward and significantly reduce the interior usable space. If you use the optional tie outs on the sides to increase the interior volume, you want to do this before you do the final tweak to your trekking pole height because this affects the taut-ness of the tent. If you use the optional guy outs and get them pretty tight and high, then you can get away with a shorter trekking pole setting around 108cm that will give you basically a taut ridgeline too. The tent will still sag a bit at the edges though. I'm sure all of this doesn't make a lot of sense to the reader, but go and play with your Refuge X and vary the trekking pole length and you'll see what I mean.

"Allison, you're going to also provide photos and explain how you gave the Refuge a bathtub floor too"

Refuge-X plus MYOG bathtub floor (horrible white goop is just white silicone sealant coz I didn't have any clear):



Refuge-X with cuben poncho as rain porch: Note the hood of the poncho is a perfect match to the pole that sticks up:





Inside perimeter showing how water "wicks" through the mesh and puddles onto floor:

Edited by retropump on 03/21/2010 14:24:55 MDT.