Companion forum thread to:

Make Your Own Gear: Silnylon Mountain Poncho

This is exactly the kind of project I've been looking for patterns for. My main interest is in making a below-the-knee length cagoule that I can pull over my knees when hunkering down to wait out a storm or just for keeping warm at the campsite. Thanks, Roger, for a great article!

Just curious, I've been looking forever for a source for plastic snap buttons like the ones you use in this project... where in the world can you find them???

Hi Miguel

Plastic snaps - I get mine from a large box in the cupboard here ... :-)

Actually, this is a very good question. I bought mine from a large distributor here in Australia - Shann Accessories. But I had to buy 100 sets = or maybe it was 200. They weren't expensive when bought like that, in bulk, and I do use a lot of them.

I had a prowl through the usual suspects like OWFINC and Seattle, but no joy there. I eventually found the source here:
http://www.e-kajiura.co.jp/english/index.html
They are called 'suntenac', and I think the ones I use are the 10 mm ones.

Now, where do you get them in Japan or USA? I have no idea I am afraid. You need to check the commercial distributors, whoever they may be.

The alternative is to buy *stainless* steel sew-on snaps. These are readily available in small sewing shops. I even found some in the general store in a small town in France, and bought some on a card. Far less convenient of course, but if all you need is a few it may be the best/only solution. Sewing these ones on means you don't need to make up a punch and die either.

So - can I expect to see a photo in due course?

cheers

Great article as ever Roger - yours are worth the subscription on their own.

Miguel - I've used this firm and they sell the plastic snaps:

http://myebestbuy.com/allsnapfastenerslist-1.aspx


I couldn't tell you where they actually ship from but they arrive in the UK within two weeks.

An order had half a buckle missing once so they sent a new, complete buckle after a quick email from me with an apologetic note. I'd recommend them. (And thanks to ed hyatt over on the Outdoors Magic UK forums for recommending them to me in the first place).

Hi David

The web site does not give the diameter (afaik). What is it?
And thanks for the URL!

To anyone else:

If you buy the die set you can use it in a drill press with care. *Make sure it is centred* or the result is 'not functional'.

My recommendation would be to not use the snaps with metal prongs on light nylon. Too much chance of damage to the fabric. However, if you sew a small square of reinforcing at the back the pronged versions should be OK.

Cheers

Roger,
Great article - being a non-sewer, I'm printing it off and giving it to my mom for her to sew one for me. :)

...outsourcing it, you know!

Why even do snaps? I have a cycling jacket with continuous velcro up the front. It can be opened and closed in an unlimited variety of ways. Wouldn't that do in this case as well? I could see this as a good place for some of that hermafroditic velcro.

"hermafroditic velcro"


LOL

Actually it's 'hermaphroditic' ;)

Here's a thread stating my own personal opinion on the velcro topic:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/13292/index.html

Edited by retropump on 10/09/2008 18:18:13 MDT.

Why snaps?

Yes, you can argue for many different ways of doing up a poncho, or any other jacket, and I am not going to claim that any one is always better than the others.

I like the snaps because they allow me to control how and where the poncho is closed across my front. And I have done it up many different ways in the past, depending on the weather, the terrain, and what other clothing I was wearing at the time.

I find that velcro tends to either undo slowly, or creep shut slowly. Sometimes it is very convenient however. Zips are good for a complete seal, but sometimes they are just not versatile enough for me.

ymmv
cheers

Roger, your thoughts on using Cuben Fiber fabric? It comes in two strengths (I forget), pros? cons?

http://www.questoutfitters.com/coated.html#CUBEN

.44 oz or .33 oz

ps -- what differences exist between your finished poncho and the Packa one that can be order "off the shelf"?

http://www.thepacka.com/index_files/Page346.html

Thanks.
Roleigh

Hi Roleigh

> Cuben?
Well, I would be rather interested to see one made of Cuben and to hear how it goes. Obviously it is going to be as waterproof (or better). If you tape up the seams I see no problems with rain.

One place where it might be different is in the drape. The silnylon is very flexible. But I don't know whether the Cuben would be better or worse.

Another possible difference might be in handling scrub. I have dragged this poncho over a few thorny vines in the rain, and the fabric does seem to slide nicely over them (fortunately!). I don't know what Cuben would do.

Btw, Cuben comes in MANY weights. Quest are just carrying two. They ARE lighter than silnylon.


> Differences between mine and The packa?
Yes, there are some significant differences.
* The Packa has huge pit zips; my poncho has none. (And I don't want them and don't need them either, as they just represent leaks to me.)
* The Packa has a big pocket (1 or 2); mine has none. Pockets in rainwear just fill up with rain imho.
* The Packa ties the fabric tightly around the pack rather like a pack cover; mine is secured under the pack but otherwise allows air movement all around.

Despite the differences, I think mine still has all the required advantages:
* Full rain protection for me and my pack.
* Arms can be free for scrambling, but can be pulled inside when it is cold.
* Air circulation underneath can be controlled and can be huge if wanted (minimising condensation, really).
* Poncho can be thrown partly or fully back off the wearer.
* Hem can be tightened up if wanted.

I wish CedarTree well with his design. We are both chasing the elusive perfection.

Cheers

Roger, thanks! I forgot to ask if your article deals with fitting for a large pack, like the Granite Gear Nimbus Ozone.

I don't consider myself a skilled enough sewer to this, so I wanted to take the article to a seamstress to do so I have not read and reread the article deeply, perhaps you've answered this question. If you have, please accept my apology.

Last, the Packa weighs 11 oz, but yours is 6.7 oz, do the design differences make that big of difference or what makes the weight difference? Thanks.

Hi Roleigh

The pattern can handle a Macpac Torre fully extended. That's about 90 Litres! (Sue used the volume for loaves of French bread and cheese which she didn't want squashed.)

Weight difference? Dunno. Similar amount of fabric I think, so it must be all the extras on The Packa. I tend to be a bit ruthless with those.

Cheers

This looks great and is something I've be looking for, but am not skilled, or patient, enough to undertake. More the latter .... I've made prototype sleeping bags, tents and tarps, but just don't have it in me to measure, layout, and sew parallel lines.

Any DIY seamsters willing to build one of these for me?
I'm not real demanding. It doesn't have to be perfect.

If anyone else is similarly inclined, please chime in.
And perhaps we can extend a gratuity of some sort to Roger to keep things fair, provided he is willing to have someone "commercialize" his design.

I wondered if, when a (2/4 way) front zip is used, an internal storm flap, with a similar rolled back edge feature as on your double flap's inner flap, combined with a 'passive' outer flap/zip cover, formed by hiding the zip behind the jacket material, would be more convenient: avoids velcro/poppers, but still (hopefully)'waterproof' enough.

I have tried to draw it in text:

_______/=\_____________
\--------------------O


where /\ is passive outer flap/zip cover
= is the zip
--- is internal flap,
O is the rolled back edge

Also, there are rollup front only cycling
wp trousers called rainlegs (rainlegs.co.uk) you could perhaps add two rollup front leg covers to each fron side of the poncho and get dry knees / thighs

Edited by ahbradley on 10/12/2008 05:11:52 MDT.

Hi Alan

You are right of course. There are several way of doing the front closure. Yours is also widely used.
I like an external storm flap most of the time as it stops the rain from reaching the zip - maybe :-)

> rollup front leg covers
Tried that once, many many years ago. Only medium successful. Had to have a full-length zip on each leg. I think it might work better with a parka than a poncho, as the poncho is a bit too flappy at the bottom edge.

Cheers

If a coil zip is used, someone on this forum suggested it can be made water repellant by running silnet into the backing, resulting in a home made waterresistant zip.
Also, The zip should be covered pretty well by the front passive flaps.

Also, the rainlegs style 'trousers' only over the front of the leg so I am puzzled by the zip reference.

now that is an interesting idea. It looks like with a poncho rain legs could very work well at keeping your upper legs dry. May be it could work with a parka too as your pack would act as rain breaker -in theory atleast.

Edited by huzefa on 10/17/2008 10:20:02 MDT.

>If a coil zip is used, someone on this forum suggested it can be made water repellant by running silnet into the backing, resulting in a home made waterresistant zip.

Thanks for the heads up. Here is the link to the thread.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/7088/index.html?skip_to_post=50580#50580

Edited by huzefa on 10/17/2008 10:47:28 MDT.

Roger, since you posted this article do you know of any online retailers making your design for those who can't sew - if so, do you have any links? Thanks.