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Modified Coleman Xtreme Stove
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Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Modified Coleman Xtreme Stove on 11/12/2005 13:23:56 MST Print View

I have started a Thread over here on the "Make Your Own Gear" Forum. I am interested in this stove as I like a "remote style" canister stove. I am going to look for an Xtreme stove this afternoon and if I like it in person I will get one.



Collectively (that means all of us putting our heads together) we should be able to move Curts ideas to a dependable solution for a stand set-up. Slick maybe, dependable a must, light a given.

Someting to think about for a good follow-on project might be "What can be make out of the empty canister" ?????

Earlier Posts about using or modifing the Coleman Xtreme Stove moved here.
===============================
POSTED BY
Curt Peterson
(curtpeterson - M)
SUBJECT Re: Stove and fuel (white gas vs. canister ON 11/11/2005 12:29:46 MST
 POST REPLY

"Canister stoves SMOKE white gas for short burn times, but long burns in cold weather, not so hot no mo."

Side by side on Mount Adams at ~10,000 doing nothing but melting snow, the Xtreme SMOKED a Whisperlite. That was 6 or so years ago. I haven't used anything since that can even touch the Xtreme for snow melting. Canisters are lighter, stove is the same weight as white gas, they're more fuel efficient, and you can't spill the fuel. I've modified one from the original 11 ounces down to about 7 ounces, making it an even better deal. It's the only stove I'd consider for snow melting.

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POSTED BY
kevin davidson
(kdesign - M)
SUBJECT Stove and fuel --modified Xtreme ON 11/11/2005 14:26:59 MST
 POST REPLY

Curt-- can you tell us how you modified your stove to get it down to 7 oz.?

Also, can you figure out approx. fuel consumption for 2 1/2 days based on your winter/alpine experience?

Thanks.
KD

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POSTED BY
kevin davidson
(kdesign - M)
SUBJECT Sleeping Pads to eliminate legsicle fears ON 11/11/2005 15:04:42 MST
 POST REPLY

Based on everyone's concerns and Ryan's experience, the following Pad system is up for discussion---
Nightlight Torso Pad 3.7 oz. used over Nightlightpad(GossamerGear) 19.5x59x3/4" at 7.5 oz.
Oware pad cut down to 12x24x1/4" at .85 oz.
Last doubled for feet and lower legs.
Total weight is 12.05 oz.

A cut down Nightlight pad could be substituted for
the folding torso pad.

I almost forgot--the small "foot" pad also doubles as an insulation pad for whatever stove system is employed.

Edited by kdesign at 11/12/2005 12:08:22 MST.
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POSTED BY
Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf - M)
SUBJECT Re: Re: Stove and fuel (white gas vs. canister ON 11/11/2005 15:16:15 MST
 POST REPLY

Curt is correct about canister stoves, they work best in high altitudes, but if they get cold they tend to die. (has happend to me at about 10-15 degrees) I dont know if there is any canister cozies for sale, I know Bill Fornshell has made one. do you think one of the antigravity gear pot cozys is a comparable size for a canister?


But I still think cooking over fires may be a good idea (it saves all this confusion and mabey half a pound or so, and Ryan is willing to do it!!!!!!)

Edited by ryanf at 11/11/2005 15:41:02 MST.
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POSTED BY
Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf - M)
SUBJECT canister cozys??? ON 11/11/2005 15:32:17 MST
 POST REPLY

Any way,

a Anti gravity gear 3cup bowl cozy may work for a MSR 8oz feul canister.(modified)

and a mini solo cozy modified may work for the smaller snow peak canisters


according to Bill you use these in conjunction with a chemical heat pack.

Edited by ryanf at 11/11/2005 15:53:39 MST.
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POSTED BY
Richard Nelridge
(naturephoto1 - M)
SUBJECT Stove and fuel (white gas vs. canister) ON 11/11/2005 19:19:59 MST
 POST REPLY

Ryan F,

The Coleman Xtreme Stove is a Liquid Feed Gas stove. It is not nearly as subject to cold as the usual Canister type Gas Stove.

Rich

POSTED BY
Michael Martin
(MikeMartin - M)
SUBJECT Re: canister cozys??? ON 11/11/2005 19:38:23 MST
 POST REPLY

Ryan F writes:

>> a...cozy may work for a...feul canister... According to Bill you use these in conjunction with a chemical heat pack.

Ryan F-

You have a fertile mind! You do well in representing the next generation of lightweight backpackers. Maybe you'll follow in Ryan J's, or Bill F.'s footsteps...

Bill's chemical heat pack is key if you want this canister cozy idea to work. Canisters cool from the inside as the fuel evaporates. Without an external source of heat, a cozy would make them even colder.

btw, this is one big advantage to the Powermax canisters as the liquid feed system causes the evaporation (and related cooling) to occur outside the canister. (The other big advantage is that the Propane in the mixture doesn't boil off first.)

Best Regards,

-Mike M.

Edited by MikeMartin at 11/11/2005 19:45:34 MST.
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POSTED BY
Curt Peterson
(curtpeterson - M)
SUBJECT NEW Re: Stove and fuel --modified Xtreme ON 11/12/2005 11:40:32 MST
 POST REPLY

Actually, getting it down to just the burner and control valve gets you to 5.7 ounces. At that weight I'd be tempted to choose it over a Pocket Rocket/Snowpeak stove because I prefer the remote canister and the lighter/recyclable canisters.

But, 5.7 ounces includes no stand setup at all and it's a pain to get the cartridges on.

How you add weight back to gain these functions is up to you. I've used a Pocket Rocket 3-leg stand inverted as a stand and it works great - adds an ounce or so. Using tent stakes or a mesh stand that can hold the pot would keep the weight just under 7 ounces.

I'm not a big fan of that setup, though, so I'm working on other ideas. Something that could support the burner and a pot that weighs an ounce or less would be perfect. Very, very possible - I just haven't put the time into figuring it out yet.

By the way, not sure who mentioned it about cartridges in cold, but the Coleman Powermax setup should NOT be considered the same as regular cartridges. It's a different setup altogether. Cut one of these canisters open and there's a metal (brass?) tube inside that runs the length of the cartridge. Not only does this allow liquid fuel to be drawn, but it gets every last drop out of the canister. Empty canisters from use weigh the same as empty canisters that have been punctured and drained.

If Coleman would come up with a F1 Ultralight style stove that used the Powermax system, I'd be first in line to get one.

-Curt

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POSTED BY
kevin davidson
(kdesign - M)
SUBJECT NEW modified Xtreme--the Curt way ON 11/12/2005 11:53:20 MST
 POST REPLY

Thanks, Curt. I'm personally intrigued. I would have to get my hand on one to seriously tackle a solution. Perhaps sometime this Winter, I'll do so. Someone with a metal shop like Bill F (if he were interested in the problem) would probably come up with a slick answer.

Any ideas about fuel consumption over 2 1/2 days
(based on the nature of Ryan's trip)?

I wonder if RJ would be interested in using this stove w/ one of your suggested mods for the Winter UL trip?

Edited by kdesign at 11/12/2005 12:10:35 MST.
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Links listed above will no longer work.

Edited by bfornshell on 11/17/2005 11:52:32 MST.

Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
Ti Rods? on 11/12/2005 15:14:46 MST Print View

I wonder if a couple of short lengths of those ti rods would work somehow... alternately small scraps of aluminum arrow heads... as long as they are below the burner it might / should work. especially if you add a foil 'reflector' to reflect the heat upwards...

Michael Martin
(MikeMartin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: North Idaho
Re: Modified Coleman Xtreme Stove on 11/12/2005 17:22:23 MST Print View

Hi Bill-

I'm glad to see you're taking this up...

Here's an idea just to get you started -- feel free to trash it, of course and do your own thing.

I think a 3 legged support made out of Ti sheet similar in design (but different in dimensions -- with longer legs and without the tablet tray) to the Esbit Wing Stove on Thru-hiker.com and Zenstove.net would work well. It could screw into the burner assembly easily and would weigh maybe 15g.

The heat shield cup, spring, and washer on the stove could all be tossed. The new stand would screw on between the pre-heat tube and the gas jet.

As we speak, I'm actually staring at the Ti sheet I got from thru-hiker months ago for just this project. But, my metal working skills are kind of weak, and I've yet to start building.

On the valve end of things, I completely agree with Curt P. You can remove the magnesium heat sink around the valve and save about 1.6oz. But then the canisters are *really* difficult to attach. I'm still looking for an elegant solution to this one.

Good Luck.

Best Regards,

-Mike

[Disclaimer: modifying a stove will undoubtedly void the manufacturer's warranty, and may create a fire or explosion hazard. Proceed at your own risk.]

Edited by MikeMartin on 11/12/2005 19:24:45 MST.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Modified Xtreme Stove on 11/12/2005 19:09:46 MST Print View

Well I can tell you one thing so far, "now you tell me" hahahahah
[Disclaimer: modifying a stove will undoubtably void the manufacturer's warranty, and may create a fire or explosion hazard. Proceed at your own risk.]

But maybe not. Coleman sell's what they call a "Trail Maintenance Kit" and if the owner is allowed to replace the parts in the "Kit" then I haven't "voided" my warranty yet. Also if something happens to the stove and I can replace any parts necessary to make it look like it did when I bought it I don't think I have "voided" my warranty. But do I care about the warranty, NO.

I have weighed each part of the stove and will post my weights later. I agree that my Titanium from Thru-Hiker will play a big part in the Diet I put this stove on.

I will use the name for the parts as found in the Coleman Parts List for this stove.
Parts to replace with lighter ones:

Part list item 4 - Leg-Grate set of 3: Weight 62gr/2.19oz

Part list item 2 - Burner Bowl : Weight 25.2gr/0.88oz

Part list item 8 - Valve & Hose Assembly - 135gr/4.78oz - Dissemble and examine for any weight reduction possibilities. If you remove this and find some other way to get the fuel from the bottle to the stove I don't think the stove will work. I will look to see if I can remove any of the outter case of the valve and reduce some weight that way. I will see if I can lighten the fuel control knob.

Weight of Stove out of the box: 311.5gr/10.99oz
Weight of Parts: Numbers from parts list
Item 1-35.8gr
Item 2-25.2gr
Item 3-2.2gr
Item 4-Set of Three Legs 62gr
Item 5,6a,6b,& 7-44.3gr
Item 6c,6d,6e&8-135gr
Item 9 -7gr

PowerMax 300gr Bottle - 399.6gr


As a side note: Colemans idea of recycle(ing) the bottle is to give you a "Greem Key" to puncture the EMPTY fuel cartridge. The Green Key works like a "Church Key" can opener. I will turn my empty's into small stove(s)/parts.

I bought my stove at a local Sportsmans Wharehouse, they also sell the PowderMax fuel and a local Academy Sports & Outdoors store sells the PowerMax fuel but not the stove.

Edited by bfornshell on 11/12/2005 19:22:33 MST.

Michael Martin
(MikeMartin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: North Idaho
Re: Modified Xtreme Stove on 11/12/2005 19:27:55 MST Print View

>> Well I can tell you one thing so far, "now you tell me" hahahahah.

Bill -- that wasn't aimed at you. :)

(I must've been a lawyer in a past life or something. Either that, or I'm just naturally paranoid.)

Best,

-Mike

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Re: Modified Xtreme Stove on 11/12/2005 20:03:05 MST Print View

do you really need the stove or can you make a pot suport and light the end of the hose when you turn on the feul? (modify hose to point upward towards pot)

nothing fancy, but may work?

(dont sue me if it dosent :-)>)

Edited by ryanf on 11/12/2005 20:06:08 MST.

Michael Martin
(MikeMartin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: North Idaho
Re: Re: Re: Modified Xtreme Stove on 11/12/2005 20:18:23 MST Print View

Ryan F writes:

>> can you make a pot suport and light the end of the hose when you turn on the feul?

Another clever idea, Ryan F!

Unfortunately, unlike an alcohol stove, the fuel must be precisely mixed with air before combustion. Otherwise, you'll get partial combustion and an uncontrolled flame.

Keep the ideas coming though. I like how you think outside-the-box!

-Mike

Ryan Jordan
(ryan) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Greater Yellowstone
Re: Re: Re: Re: Modified Xtreme Stove on 11/13/2005 05:30:58 MST Print View

Oh this is going to be really fun.
I'm in.

BPL Ti rods won't work for legs to support a 2L pot, they are too thin (today's project)

Howevah...

1/8" ti rod does work, it has plenty of stiffness. I used 1/8" ti on my version of the LAAF kit:

This is the LAAF Gear (now defunct) upgrade kit to the Whisperlite. The pot supports use 1/8" steel rod stock:



(Browse the old LAAF Gear website at the Wayback Machine)

For the Extreme, adding legs like this might require a tight radius to be put into the ti rod to attach it (slide it) to the shaft, and maybe the strategic placement of drilled holes or dents to keep it in place once the legs are spread.

McMaster has ti rod stock ($$!). Search "titanium rod" there, click 1/8" dia, there are two types: Grade 2 ($, easier to bend) and Grade 5 ($$, stronger).

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Modified Xtreme Stove on 11/13/2005 05:41:35 MST Print View

not sure if the current legs would work for smaller pots (???), if not, what about changing the shape of the legs to also function as a pot support too?

that's all for now. gotta' run out for the AM. can't wait to see how this develops.

oh...and LAAF is an acronym for what, pray tell?

Edited by pj on 11/13/2005 05:50:12 MST.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Modified Coleman Xtreme Stove on 11/13/2005 06:04:36 MST Print View

In a recent exchange between Bill and Mike:

Bill wrote:

> OK, so what is the "valve" thing that lets the
> PowerMax canister connect to the Coleman Xtreme for?
> There maybe a better way to say this but the valve
> must be important.  Are the fins really necessary?  I
> want to trim them off to reduce some weight.  I am
> going to take it apart and have a look inside but I
> need to get a very small Phillips screwdriver first.
Bill
========================================================
Hi Bill-

Yeah, that magnesium valve cover weighs 1.6oz!

I've run my stove successfully without it, so I bet you could cut it
down or eliminate altogether.  I'm just guessing, but I think the fins
reduce sputtering during startup.  After lighting, the stove needs to
run for a few seconds at low output to warm-up the pre-heat tube.  I
think the fins allow the fuel to vaporize right in the valve assembly
during this low-output startup time.

There is one other piece of the stove that makes me curious.  Inside
the rigid brass tube is a length of wire.  I wonder if its supposed to
provide some kind of pressure regulation, but I've never been able to
find out exactly what it does.  Even a call to Coleman only revealed
that "it's part of the generator...".

Cheers, -Mike
========================================================
Hi Mike,  Funny you mentioned that little "length of
wire" inside the brass tube.  It is 9.3cm long and is
1/16" or close gage.  I am sure Coleman's has an
approved way to remove it and I have another way.  I
connected my gas bottle to the Valve thing with the
knob opened a little but not connected to the stove.
Well, you know how a blow dart works. I am glad it
wasn't pointed at me. Twang, might be a good word to
describe the event.  That was the second funny thing
to happen today.

That little piece of rod does reduce the hole size in
the brass fitting that the "heat tube" is connected
to. You think Coleman engineer's were smart enough to
come up with a way to regulate the gas flow like I do
with "jets" in my big Holley carburetors? 

Have you taken the valve assembly apart?  I think it
might act like a carburetor.  Tomorrow I will get a
smaller screw driver and open it up.

Someone somewhere said that a Snow Peak 700 Ti cup was
the best size/thing to use to melt snow.  What do you
or anyone that has melted a lot of snow or ice think
is a good size pot .  I have only melted ice but ice
or snow may be about the same. 

I am thinking about using the Xtreme burner in a
home-made Jet-Boil like stove.  Designed with melting
snow and ice as the primary task and cooking just
because it will. 

Bill

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
Xtreme stove modders unite! on 11/13/2005 10:29:21 MST Print View

Bill said,
"Someone somewhere said that a Snow Peak 700 Ti cup was the best size/thing to use to melt snow. "

With such a stove, it would be a shame to have it only support such a small pot (if any support idea was dedicated to something that small). For snow melting, bigger and broader is better (to a point)-- I use anywhere from 1 -3 L pots. In small pots. you have to keep feeding snow to get appreciable amounts of water. Broader pots (assuming a good flame spread) allow the snow to melt faster.

Glad you're on the case, Bill. I like the rod stock idea for pot support--I had been thinking along the lines of the MSR Dragonfly configuration, but what Ryan shows is simpler.

Do you have milling capabilities? I'll share a possible idea, if you do.

Edited by kdesign on 11/13/2005 12:15:48 MST.

pack nwcurt
(curtpeterson) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Modified Xtreme Stove on 11/13/2005 11:27:22 MST Print View

Nice picture. I was going to post a similar pic today - glad someone beat me to it.

My current setup includes #1, #5 (with spring removed), and #8 (with the big metal block removed). That's it.

As I mentioned earlier, I have put a Pocket Rocket tri-support upside down onto #5 (required a little mild dremel work to widen the hole - didn't effect use for the Pocket Rocket, by the way - in fact, all my changes so far are completely reversible). This will support the stove just fine. I'll post a pic later.

For pot support I've just rolled a windscreen and used that. Works fine on the bench, but wouldn't want to use it in the backcountry.

Ti rods could work out. I've messed with a coat hanger and come up with a couple things, but my creative juices weren't in high gear and I didn't come up with anything good.

I think the pot/stove support is a relatively simple problem to figure out. A Mo-Go type thing could work, or a Ti-Pod assembly maybe.

The bigger problem will be the fuel bottle attachment. It's a pain without that metal block. Possible, but a pain. I've thought about cutting the block with a hacksaw so just the bottle flare would be kept. This would probably get it down to .2 or .3 ounces I figure, but it goes against my "reversible" plan. Maybe some kind of "key" would work. Essentially it just needs something that can hold the plastic very firmly while the bottle is pressed/twisted on. It rips my fingers apart to use them, so something else needs to be found.

By the way, I'm guessing you know this but there is a smaller fuel bottle. The one you show (10.6 oz. fuel??) is pretty huge. The small one serves as plenty for all but the longest trips or snow-melting intensive trips.

Glad folks are picking this up! I've been working on it for a bit and was running out of steam. Multiple minds certainly are better...

-Curt

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
Xtreme fin mod on 11/13/2005 12:44:28 MST Print View

For just the fin function--assuming they really are
necessary--- what about using alum.or copper foil wrapped
around a reduced valve assembly ( stock magnesium block milled down to remove fins and beyond). Although, one wonders if in milling the somewhat flammable magnesium, a conflaguration could occur? Or perhaps foil around what Curt suggests (retaining just the bottle flare).
The foil could be shaped to form fins, compacted in places as a heat sink, whatever you like.

Edited by kdesign on 11/13/2005 12:47:29 MST.

pack nwcurt
(curtpeterson) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: Modified Xtreme Stove on 11/13/2005 13:02:17 MST Print View

x

Edited by curtpeterson on 11/13/2005 13:31:04 MST.

pack nwcurt
(curtpeterson) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: Modified Xtreme Stove on 11/13/2005 13:04:44 MST Print View

Sorry about that - trying to figure out the picture posting thing...

Edited by curtpeterson on 11/13/2005 13:05:54 MST.

pack nwcurt
(curtpeterson) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Modified Xtreme Stove on 11/13/2005 13:26:35 MST Print View

Here's the completely stripped stove

pack nwcurt
(curtpeterson) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Modified Xtreme Stove on 11/13/2005 13:28:52 MST Print View

And the inverted Pocket Rocket

pack nwcurt
(curtpeterson) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: Modified Xtreme Stove on 11/13/2005 13:30:09 MST Print View

And with a Peizo just for kicks

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
Xtreme striptease on 11/13/2005 13:43:19 MST Print View

very useful pictures, Curt
can you do a close-up of just the stripped valve assembly for benefit of those of us who don't own the stove?

thanks

Edited by kdesign on 11/13/2005 13:44:44 MST.

Paul Luther
(eredluin) - M

Locale: Northeast
Xtreme on sale on 11/13/2005 18:23:00 MST Print View

Hi everyone,
FYI,Campmor has the Xtreme stove "on sale" for $49.97. I'm not sure if this is a deal, but I thought I'd post it anyway.
Paul