Subscribe Contribute Advertise Facebook Twitter Instagram Forums Newsletter
Global financial meltdown
Display Avatars Sort By:
Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Global financial meltdown on 09/30/2008 13:12:33 MDT Print View

Quiet in here tonight isn't it?

Everybody watching the tube or something?

:-)

John S.
(jshann) - F
Jump on the Market Rollercoaster on 09/30/2008 14:56:15 MDT Print View

The Dow jumped nearly 500 points today...BUY, BUY, BUY!!!!!

Devin Montgomery
(dsmontgomery) - MLife

Locale: one snowball away from big trouble
Re: Jump on the Market Rollercoaster on 09/30/2008 16:02:04 MDT Print View

Only down 300 on the last 2 days! I'm more interested in these Somali pirates and their inner power struggles. Now that's NEWS!

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
UK bank bailout, insight. on 09/30/2008 16:05:13 MDT Print View

bloodaid

Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
What crisis? on 09/30/2008 16:16:53 MDT Print View

If a bank falls when you are trekking in the wilds, is there a crisis? What is the sound of one bank crashing?

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: What crisis? on 09/30/2008 16:22:41 MDT Print View

Similar to the sound of a dead cat bouncing?

Jay Wilkerson
(Creachen) - MLife

Locale: East Bay
Global financial meltdown on 09/30/2008 16:26:19 MDT Print View

I will just sell all my backpacking stuff on Gear Swap and live off that $$ forever. What do you think? I got some
great ditty bags to sell.

Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Financial fun and games on 09/30/2008 16:31:04 MDT Print View

Hopefully all these bankers who throw themselves out of 40th floor windows, are outdoor types. Some good stuff might appear on e-bay as their widows liquidise their assets.

Jay Wilkerson
(Creachen) - MLife

Locale: East Bay
Global finacial meltdown on 09/30/2008 17:45:54 MDT Print View

Nice!!!

Tom Caldwell
(Coldspring) - F

Locale: Ozarks
Meltdown on 09/30/2008 22:00:00 MDT Print View

My portfolio is now light enough to start measuring it in grams.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Global finacial meltdown on 10/01/2008 13:43:26 MDT Print View

Since I neither owe money or have money (or stocks), I fail to see the problem. As long as I can afford to get into the mountains I will survive ;)

I can't really fathom how giving a whole bunch of Fortune 500 companies trillions of dollars is gonna help most average folks...but I never did get good grade in economics. Why not distribute the money to all those people who are struggling with their mortgages/rent instead?

Anyway, if the money all runs out then hopefully the MYOG forum will become more popular!

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Global finacial meltdown on 10/01/2008 15:16:06 MDT Print View

A good and fair question Alison. I don't understand international high finance too well, and I'm not sure GWB does either, but I wonder if the real reason the money supply is tight in the U.S and London is the ebbing away of big asian deposits and investments, rather than Joe and Freda being a few dollars short on their mortgage payments.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Global finacial meltdown on 10/01/2008 17:26:17 MDT Print View

"Since I neither owe money or have money (or stocks), I fail to see the problem. As long as I can afford to get into the mountains I will survive ;)"

I hear you Allison.
What meltdown? I have money saved, I do not gamble on stocks and bonds, I rent my house, I am not owned by my creditors (ok, so I make 1 car payment but the bank can take it for all I care- I could pay the difference right now). Believe it or not, I even actually own my flatscreen TV!

What happens to me if I spend money I don't have? Stop paying the rent? Stop paying for the car? Lose all my cash on speculative investments? Or, worst of all crimes, stop paying TAXES? Banks, Big Bro, and the cops will be a-knockin' within a week.
And I don't think they'll be too understanding of my "liquidity" issues...

Government bailout...free markets my @$$!!

Tom Caldwell
(Coldspring) - F

Locale: Ozarks
Meltdown on 10/01/2008 21:19:13 MDT Print View

Whatever happens will effect most everyone. Sure you can save money, but even in normal times it loses value in relation to the real-world inflation. Now, we are poised to see a rapid devaluation of the dollar.

As far as going to the mountains and public lands, some believe that they are already nothing more than collateral for international debts. Will you be free to move about in peace, or constantly be on the run from international security guards? National Park and Forest foreclosure and occupation won't happen tomorrow, but I do wonder how fast things can crash economically?

I'm going to enjoy my time in the outdoors from now on. I'll savor every second.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Meltdown on 10/01/2008 22:01:50 MDT Print View

"National Park and Forest foreclosure and occupation won't happen tomorrow, but I do wonder how fast things can crash economically?"

Thanks for bringing up this point...What a surreal and pathetic state of affairs: That one can seriously contemplate the reality of living in a society in which much of our "wilderness" could essentially be "closed" or sold if need be.

Perhaps a poignant reminder that our water, our land, our forests, skies, animals- the so-called "rights" to all of these- belong not to us, but to investors.

A. B.
(tomswifty)
WHARRGARBL on 10/01/2008 22:49:08 MDT Print View

Modern capitalism: socialize risk, privatize profit.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Re: Meltdown on 10/02/2008 15:17:12 MDT Print View

>Modern capitalism: socialize risk, privatize profit.

LOL. That sums it up to perfection.

>Perhaps a poignant reminder that our water, our land, our forests, skies, animals- the so-called "rights" to all of these- belong not to us, but to investors

Seems to me this was a huge oversight missing from the US constitution and it's amendments. There are some assets that should never be "for sale' even in the most hard-core capitalist society in the most dire of economic situations, and our remaining wildernesses should be in this class. It should be an "unalienable right" for citizens to have free access to these lands IMHO.

Joe Clement
(skinewmexico) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Perfect on 10/02/2008 16:16:39 MDT Print View

Perfect Evan, as much as I hate the reality of it. But I will be using it, so I hope you didn't copyright it or anything.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Global finacial meltdown - scary on 10/02/2008 17:04:57 MDT Print View

From Peston's blog on the bbc news website.

"And now for the complicated and scary stuff. Today is the beginning of "auction season", when the International Swaps and Derivatives Association starts a series of auctions to settle who pays what to whom on a plethora of credit derivative contracts relating to businesses that have gone into default.

It's settlement time on those humungous insurance policies for corporate debt, called credit default swaps, which I've mentioned to you as being another potentially lethal flaw in the financial economy.

In the coming three weeks, payouts of hundreds of billions of dollars may be made - or at least demanded - to cover losses arising from the defaults on the debt of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Lehman and Washington Mutual.

Sandy Chen, the analyst at Panmure who's been a smart predictor of credit-crunch accidents, estimates that payments on Lehman's battered bonds could be as much as $350bn.

Now the problem here is that for every beneficiary of these payments, there's an underwriter - those who provided the CDS insurance - which has to find the cash. And, as I've pointed out, this was a largely unregulated market, so the great fear in markets is that some underwriters have insufficient capital and will simply collapse when the claims are made.

That in turn would hurt financial institutions expecting to be paid out on their CDS contracts and damage others with separate exposure to the collapsed businesses. The shock to the system could be very severe.

To compound the current anxiety about all this, the CDS market is so opaque that it's impossible to know right now who is holding the radioactive baby.

This gigantic CDS mess has contributed to the seizing up of money markets in recent weeks, the tendency of all banks and financial institutions to hoard cash - because no-one knows who or what may be vulnerable during the CDS auction season.

That, as if you needed telling, is just one more reason why the US $700bn bank bail-out is no panacea, even if we should be relieved that it has passed its first Congressional hurdle."

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Global financial meltdown on 10/03/2008 17:15:32 MDT Print View

It looks like Bush and the senate may be more confused than previously thought. Maybe they think the financial meltdown was caused by 'global warming'. Or is it the next gravy train being stoked up?

SEC. 117. CARBON AUDIT OF THE TAX CODE.

(a) Study- The Secretary of the Treasury shall enter into an agreement with the National Academy of Sciences to undertake a comprehensive review of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to identify the types of and specific tax provisions that have the largest effects on carbon and other greenhouse gas emissions and to estimate the magnitude of those effects.

(b) Report- Not later than 2 years after the date of enactment of this Act, the National Academy of Sciences shall submit to Congress a report containing the results of study authorized under this section.

(c) Authorization of Appropriations- There is authorized to be appropriated to carry out this section $1,500,000 for the period of fiscal years 2009 and 2010.

More….
SEC. 115. TAX CREDIT FOR CARBON DIOXIDE SEQUESTRATION.

(a) In General- Subpart D of part IV of subchapter A of chapter 1 (relating to business credits) is amended by adding at the end the following new section:

`SEC. 45Q. CREDIT FOR CARBON DIOXIDE SEQUESTRATION.

`(a) General Rule- For purposes of section 38, the carbon dioxide sequestration credit for any taxable year is an amount equal to the sum of–

*
`(1) $20 per metric ton of qualified carbon dioxide which is–

*
o
`(A) captured by the taxpayer at a qualified facility, and

*
o
`(B) disposed of by the taxpayer in secure geological storage, and

*
`(2) $10 per metric ton of qualified carbon dioxide which is–

*
o
`(A) captured by the taxpayer at a qualified facility, and

*
o
`(B) used by the taxpayer as a tertiary injectant in a qualified enhanced oil or natural gas recovery project.

`(b) Qualified Carbon Dioxide- For purposes of this section–

*
`(1) IN GENERAL- The term `qualified carbon dioxide’ means carbon dioxide captured from an industrial source which–

*
o
`(A) would otherwise be released into the atmosphere as industrial emission of greenhouse gas, and

*
o
`(B) is measured at the source of capture and verified at the point of disposal or injection.

*
`(2) RECYCLED CARBON DIOXIDE- The term `qualified carbon dioxide’ includes the initial deposit of captured carbon dioxide used as a tertiary injectant. Such term does not include carbon dioxide that is re-captured, recycled, and re-injected as part of the enhanced oil and natural gas recovery process.

`(c) Qualified Facility- For purposes of this section, the term `qualified facility’ means any industrial facility–

*
`(1) which is owned by the taxpayer,

*
`(2) at which carbon capture equipment is placed in service, and

*
`(3) which captures not less than 500,000 metric tons of carbon dioxide during the taxable year.

`(d) Special Rules and Other Definitions- For purposes of this section–

*
`(1) ONLY CARBON DIOXIDE CAPTURED AND DISPOSED OF OR USED WITHIN THE UNITED STATES TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT- The credit under this section shall apply only with respect to qualified carbon dioxide the capture and disposal or use of which is within–

*
o
`(A) the United States (within the meaning of section 638(1)), or

*
o
`(B) a possession of the United States (within the meaning of section 638(2)).

*
`(2) SECURE GEOLOGICAL STORAGE- The Secretary, in consultation with the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, shall establish regulations for determining adequate security measures for the geological storage of carbon dioxide under subsection (a)(1)(B) such that the carbon dioxide does not escape into the atmosphere. Such term shall include storage at deep saline formations and unminable coal seems under such conditions as the Secretary may determine under such regulations.

*
`(3) TERTIARY INJECTANT- The term `tertiary injectant’ has the same meaning as when used within section 193(b)(1).

*
`(4) QUALIFIED ENHANCED OIL OR NATURAL GAS RECOVERY PROJECT- The term `qualified enhanced oil or natural gas recovery project’ has the meaning given the term `qualified enhanced oil recovery project’ by section 43(c)(2), by substituting `crude oil or natural gas’ for `crude oil’ in subparagraph (A)(i) thereof.

*
`(5) CREDIT ATTRIBUTABLE TO TAXPAYER- Any credit under this section shall be attributable to the person that captures and physically or contractually ensures the disposal of or the use as a tertiary injectant of the qualified carbon dioxide, except to the extent provided in regulations prescribed by the Secretary.

*
`(6) RECAPTURE- The Secretary shall, by regulations, provide for recapturing the benefit of any credit allowable under subsection (a) with respect to any qualified carbon dioxide which ceases to be captured, disposed of, or used as a tertiary injectant in a manner consistent with the requirements of this section.

*
`(7) INFLATION ADJUSTMENT- In the case of any taxable year beginning in a calendar year after 2009, there shall be substituted for each dollar amount contained in subsection (a) an amount equal to the product of–

*
o
`(A) such dollar amount, multiplied by

*
o
`(B) the inflation adjustment factor for such calendar year determined under section 43(b)(3)(B) for such calendar year, determined by substituting `2008′ for `1990′.

`(e) Application of Section- The credit under this section shall apply with respect to qualified carbon dioxide before the end of the calendar year in which the Secretary, in consultation with the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, certifies that 75,000,000 metric tons of qualified carbon dioxide have been captured and disposed of or used as a tertiary injectant.’.

(b) Conforming Amendment- Section 38(b) (relating to general business credit) is amended by striking `plus’ at the end of paragraph (32), by striking the period at the end of paragraph (33) and inserting `, plus’, and by adding at the end of following new paragraph:

*
`(34) the carbon dioxide sequestration credit determined under section 45Q(a).’.

(c) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for subpart B of part IV of subchapter A of chapter 1 (relating to other credits) is amended by adding at the end the following new section:

*
`Sec. 45Q. Credit for carbon dioxide sequestration.’.

(d) Effective Date- The amendments made by this section shall apply to carbon dioxide captured after the date of the enactment of this Act.

SEC. 116. CERTAIN INCOME AND GAINS RELATING TO INDUSTRIAL SOURCE CARBON DIOXIDE TREATED AS QUALIFYING INCOME FOR PUBLICLY TRADED PARTNERSHIPS.

(a) In General- Subparagraph (E) of section 7704(d)(1) (defining qualifying income) is amended by inserting `or industrial source carbon dioxide’ after `timber)’.

(b) Effective Date- The amendment made by this section shall take effect on the date of the enactment of this Act, in taxable years ending after such date.