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Tony Beasley
(tbeasley) - MLife

Locale: Pigeon House Mt from the Castle
JB 550 ml pot on 09/25/2008 17:04:23 MDT Print View

After thinking about this project for two years, I recently finished modifying a JetBoil PCS pot to be a 550ml pot (I call it the JB550), I also cut the JetBoil stove-mounting ring off.

The weight of the JB 550 pot and new lid is 100.3g the pot grip sleeve is 6.4g.

The weight of the BPL 550 is 53.3 with lid.

I have run a few tests to compare the JB 550 with the BPL 550.

The JB 550 is around 20%-30% more efficient than the BPL 550 depending on burn rate.

With the JB550 the tests used between 4.3g/80ºC and 6.6g/80ºC and averaged about 5g/80ºC.

The BPL550 used between 5.3g/80ºC and 7.5g/80ºC and averaged about 6.3g/80ºC.

At the same burn rate the JB 550 is at least 20% quicker than the BPL 550.

The stove used is one of my MYOG stove specially designed for small pots but I had to do some minor modifications to get it work with the flux ring JB pot.

Conclusions: (1)The flux ringed JB550 pot gives approximately a 25% fuel saving over the BPL 550 pot and using a Coleman Max 170g canister 17 liters of water could be boiled, compared to about 12.5 liters with the BPL550.

(2) For shorter trips the Flux ring JB550 pot would not see any weight reduction advantage but for longer trips or in very cold condition they would be a great advantage.

A full report will with data and more graphs be published soon.

Tony

JB 550 and BPL 550
JB 550 pot alongside the BPL 550 pot

Bottom of JB550 pot
Bottom of JB550 pot
JB550 on stove
JB550 on stove
Graph JB550 vs BPL550
Graph of weight loss vs water boiled

Edited by tbeasley on 09/25/2008 19:04:28 MDT.

Yukio Yamakawa
(JSBJSB) - F

Locale: Tokyo,JAPAN
JB550pot &silicon Lotus on 09/28/2008 08:28:58 MDT Print View

Tonyさん、こんにちわ、JSBです

改善したJB550ポットを使うと
25パーセントの燃費向上になることは、素晴らしいですね!

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=15736

前例の無い、道具ですので、奇妙に思うでしょうが
純正の蓋よりも、シリコン製の膜(0.3mm厚み)を水面に浮かべる
ほうが沸騰時間を短縮出来ます。
その理由は湯気の発生を抑えるためです。
水が気化するときに失う大きな潜熱を防ぎます。
水面から遥か上に被せた蓋は、湯気の発生を防止出来ていません!
私の実験は、ラフなやり方でした。はっきりとは掴めていませんが
およそ5パーセントぐらい燃費向上になりそうです。
200mlを沸かして2秒の差でした。
1000mlを沸かす場合では、データも採り易いと思います。
、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、
Hello,Mr. Tony

And improved use of pot JB550
25 percent will improve fuel economy, great!



Without precedent, tools, so you may feel strange
The lid of a genuine, rather than silicon film (0.3mm thick) floating on the water
You can shorten the time to boil more.
The reason is to reduce the incidence of steam.
When you lose water, a large latent heat of vaporization to prevent.
被SETA far from the surface of the water on the roof, to prevent the occurrence of steam is not good!
My experiments, was a rough way. What is clear is not掴ME
About 5 percent better fuel economy is expected to be around.
200ml of the difference between 2 seconds and was boiled.
If you boil 1000ml, the data also easy picking.

Edited by JSBJSB on 09/28/2008 08:32:04 MDT.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: JB 550 ml pot on 09/28/2008 09:40:29 MDT Print View

Hi Tony,
Thanks again for the drawings you sent me, one day, I'll get around to using them!

If I uderstand your graph correctly, youare are saving around 20g fuel over a 170g propane mix, but giving away a bit more in the weight of the flux ring heat exchanger. Great performance efficiency wise anyway.

Rog

Tony Beasley
(tbeasley) - MLife

Locale: Pigeon House Mt from the Castle
Thankyou JSB on 10/07/2008 13:52:05 MDT Print View

Hi JSB,

Sorry for not replying earlier, I have been away on holidays to paradise (Norfolk Island).

Thankyou for your silicon lotus link, I have been aware that a layer of oil on top of heating water makes a big difference (http://www.bioenergylists.org/stovesdoc/Aprovecho/HeatLoss_Berick.pdf) to evaporation but I think the silicon on top is a very good idea. I will try and get some suitable silicon and make a silicon lotus and do some testing and post the results.

Tony

Tony Beasley
(tbeasley) - MLife

Locale: Pigeon House Mt from the Castle
Rog re: JB 550 ml pot on 10/07/2008 14:02:41 MDT Print View

Hi Rog,

>If I understand your graph correctly, you are are saving around 20g fuel over a 170g propane mix, but giving away a bit more in the weight of the flux ring heat exchanger. Great performance efficiency wise anyway.

I get the the figure closer to 34g to 51g which on a long trip is not insignificant.

Strangely the extra efficiency that I am seeing with a canister stove with the JB550 pot does not happen with alcohol stoves, I think I know what is going on but I need to do some more testing.

Tony

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
JB 550 ml pot on 10/07/2008 14:33:56 MDT Print View

Hi Tony
Welcome back to reality. Apart from the huge drop of the AU $ and the finance world crash, nothing happened while you were away....
Now that I have a 550ml Ti pot and realised that it is big enough for me, your cut down JB looks interesting .
Following the above discussion I discovered that the Ti lid of my 550ml fits (but of course does not "lock on") the JB and is less than half of the weight of the original (about 15g against 35 g for the JB) I am not sure that a silicon version would be lighter (?)
I was wondering if the flux ring as well as capturing more heat also disperses , like a heat sink, more heat than a pot without . What I had in mind was how it would work with a pot cozy. The plan is to still use the Caldera Cone for 3 days or less and gas for longer.
Franco

Tony Beasley
(tbeasley) - MLife

Locale: Pigeon House Mt from the Castle
re:JB 550 ml pot on 10/08/2008 13:51:25 MDT Print View

Hi Franco,

>Following the above discussion I discovered that the Ti lid of my 550ml fits (but of course does not "lock on") the JB and is less than half of the weight of the original (about 15g against 35 g for the JB) I am not sure that a silicon version would be lighter (?)

The lid that I use is from the BPL550, I am hoping to track some silicon down soon and will try JSB's idea.


>I was wondering if the flux ring as well as capturing more heat also disperses , like a heat sink, more heat than a pot without . What I had in mind was how it would work with a pot cozy. The plan is to still use the Caldera Cone for 3 days or less and gas for longer.

I do not think the flux ring diperses any heat from the pot water as heat travels from hot to cold and the flame temperature is hotter than 100C. I have not run tests on pot cozy efficiency yet.

I recently recieved my Caldera Cone 550 stove and have run some tests, the JB 550 pot fits into the BPL 550 cone but on the prelimenary tests it does not work as well as the BPL 550 pot, I used the stove that came with the Cone. More on the CC 550 cone tests later.

Tony

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: re:JB 550 ml pot on 10/08/2008 15:19:04 MDT Print View

> I am hoping to track some silicon down soon

Try Jehbco: http://www.jehbco.com.au/

Cheers

Tony Beasley
(tbeasley) - MLife

Locale: Pigeon House Mt from the Castle
Re: re:JB 550 ml pot on 10/08/2008 15:35:43 MDT Print View

Hi Roger,

thanks for the silicon info

Tony

Adam Kilpatrick
(oysters) - MLife

Locale: South Australia
Re: Re: re:JB 550 ml pot on 10/12/2011 18:48:20 MDT Print View

I know its more than 3 years ago now, but did you progress any more in this area Tony? Did you work out why you didn't see any efficiency gains using alcohol stoves? What about esbit?

Know of anyone who has cut down a JB Sol Ti pot and how much that would weigh?

Cheers,

Adam

Tony Beasley
(tbeasley) - MLife

Locale: Pigeon House Mt from the Castle
Re: Re: Re: re:JB 550 ml pot on 10/13/2011 15:33:03 MDT Print View

Hi Adam,

>I know its more than 3 years ago now, but did you progress any more in this area Tony? Did you work out why you didn't see any efficiency gains using alcohol stoves? What about esbit?

Know of anyone who has cut down a JB Sol Ti pot and how much that would weigh?

Cheers,

Adam

I have been a bit distracted in the last three years and I have not gone back to the JB 550 pot.

I think the reason I do not see any efficiency gain by the JB550 over the BPL 550 is that with alcohol stoves they require a good amount of air flow around the stove and pot to get efficient combustion , the flux rings on the bottom of the pot stifle the air flow reducing the combustion efficiency and therefor the flame temperature.

Tony

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: Re: Re: re:JB 550 ml pot on 10/14/2011 12:02:45 MDT Print View

Hi, Tony,

Thanks for your insight into the use of heat exchangers with alcohol stoves. What you're saying makes a lot of sense.

Hope that "distraction" is fully behind you now.

HJ