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Titanium Tent Stakes
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Steven Evans
(Steve_Evans) - MLife

Locale: Canada
Titanium Tent Stakes on 09/03/2008 07:53:07 MDT Print View

I have been working on some Titanium stakes for my winter trips, and thought that maybe some simple summer ones were in order aswell.
These summer stakes are made from 0.016" Ti 6Al-4V. They are 1 inch wide and 6 inches long. They have 10 1/4" holes along each side to reduce weight and one large 1/2" hole on the top to tie into. The 1/2" hole was supposed to be round but the material is so tough, I couldn't punch through it with such a large die. I had to use multiple 1/4" holes to create the round/square you see at the top. I did have some diffculty in bending it lengthwise as I didn't have much to grab onto. I'll have to clamp it better next time. Either way, it is very rigid and I have no doubt it will perform in the field. Of course, it ony weighs 4 grams, so we'll see. :)Titanium Summer Tent Stake

The piece off to the side of the scale is my winter tent stake in progress. I'm aiming for 14 grams or less.

Sam Haraldson
(sharalds) - MLife

Locale: Gallatin Range
Titanium Tent Stakes on 09/03/2008 08:59:11 MDT Print View

You're proving yourself to be quite the titanium craftsman, Steven.

Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Titanium Tent Stakes on 09/03/2008 09:55:10 MDT Print View

Why didn't you mill the hole out Steven?
P.S. Needing any C.N.C. machinists? :)

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Titanium Tent Stakes on 09/03/2008 13:41:30 MDT Print View

Nice pegs Steven!

Mike, the company I'm starting with on monday needs CNC machinists. Fancy a spell in Leeds?

Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Titanium Tent Stakes on 09/03/2008 14:42:31 MDT Print View

Let me think Roger. I live surrounded by hills and the nearest Munros are 30-40 mins in the car. The nearest ski-tows are 30 mins away. White water canoeing and world class mountain-biking is on my doorstep.
I don't think i'll take you up on the offer! :)
Thanks anyway Roger, but if this job ever goes belly-up, i may change my mind!

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Titanium Tent Stakes on 09/03/2008 17:01:14 MDT Print View

Hi Steve

Very nice, and even lighter than mine.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/make_your_own_gear_titanium_snow_stakes.html

However, can I give a warning? I had mine out in a storm high on a snow-covered alpine ridge (100+ kph winds for 14 hours), and the thin edges of the Ti sheet fretted on the guy ropes and wore through 7 out of 8 of them by the morning. Now maybe you won't get such weather in summer, but it's a worry.

Another point: The thin metal at the top edge is kinda rough on the hands when you are pushing the stake into hard ground. The large hole may make the top a bit weak too under these conditions. Field test!

Cheers
Roger

Stuart Gregory
(Shuttleworth) - F
Re: Re: Titanium Tent Stakes on 09/03/2008 17:36:29 MDT Print View

"Mike, the company I'm starting with on monday needs CNC machinists. Fancy a spell in Leeds?"

I made my own CNC milling machine, well sourced the parts and put them all together , picture bottom left of this page:

http://www.cncfusion.com/images/user-gallery.html

AND I already live in Leeds! However, I'm very very much an amateur, so wouldn't be suitable.

If anyone wants to build their own small CNC then CNC fusion is a very good place to start.

Steven Evans
(Steve_Evans) - MLife

Locale: Canada
Re: Titanium Tent Stakes on 09/03/2008 19:25:04 MDT Print View

Sam: Thanks, titanium is relatively new to me, and I'm learning alot...hence the reason why I keep working with it...something new!

Mike: The milling machine is at work and I made these at my house, or else I would have a least used the drill press. We are actually looking for CNC machinists right now - care for an exchange program?

Roger T: Thanks!

Roger C: Where do you think I got the idea from! I've been thinking about them ever since I read your MYOG article. I started with the winter stakes but thought I could make an uberlight usable summer stake aswell
I do realize that these look (and probably are) a little fragile, but I'm pushing the limits here. There are pegs out there for a few more grams (Ti Nail Pegs come to mind) so this was one of the only ways I could think of cutting all weight while trying to have a wider peg...hopefully holding well. The hole at the top worries me aswell. I plan on using a super small caribiner so that the rope does not frey as the 0.016" thickness can get very sharp.
I'd like to bend the top of the peg as you did on yours so that it would be easier to pound in the ground, but I'll wait for a field test to make sure it is required...hopefully not.

Steven Evans
(Steve_Evans) - MLife

Locale: Canada
Re: Re: Titanium Tent Stakes on 09/03/2008 19:32:14 MDT Print View

Just for the record, the completed stake was "supposed" to look like this and weigh 4.5 grams. This design gives the option of using the hole at the top for attachment or the side grooves to wrap guy lines around.

Summer Peg

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Titanium Tent Stakes on 09/03/2008 21:58:59 MDT Print View

Hi Steve

> I plan on using a super small caribiner so that the rope does not frey as the 0.016" thickness can get very sharp.
Ah, but will the weight of the carabiner spoil the whole show?

I have submitted an update to the Ti Snow Pegs article with some ideas. I hope ... that it will be published soon.

Cheers

Steven Evans
(Steve_Evans) - MLife

Locale: Canada
Re: Re: Re: Titanium Tent Stakes on 09/04/2008 00:28:57 MDT Print View

"I have submitted an update to the Ti Snow Pegs article"

Doh! I just dropped the material off for cutting...do you have any recomendations?

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Titanium Tent Stakes on 09/04/2008 01:23:58 MDT Print View

I don't know much about the hot workability of Ti but could the grooves in the sides at the top be formed by pressing the folded peg into a preheated die so as to leave a radius for the guy to sit around? If not, maybe you could punch oversize two holes and cut down to them at angles from the outer edge, then radius the cut edges.

Similarly, the top hole could be enlarged with a punch and circular die from the back before folding. This would add a lot of stiffness too. Finally, if there were some extra material at the top at one side, it could be folded across the 'V'so the pegs could be made more palm friendly and stronger for pounding with rocks into hard ground.

Edited by tallbloke on 09/04/2008 01:32:35 MDT.

Steven Evans
(Steve_Evans) - MLife

Locale: Canada
Re: Titanium Tent Stakes - Ground and Snow Versions on 09/20/2008 11:13:00 MDT Print View

The protoypes worked very well. I was going to make them a bit skinnier then the 1" they are but figured I'll test them out a bit more. I cut a bunch out for my buddies, just need to have them bent.

Summer Tent Pegs

I haven't tested the snow stakes yet, but there is a minimum charge to cut on the waterjet, so I figured I would cut a bunch of the winter stakes aswell. These will be bent in 3 places. I cut enough for my usual winter camping buddies (4 sets). Test results will be posted once the snow comes, but I anticipate that they will be sufficient for my trips as they are about the same size and the SMC ones. (3.5" Wide x 5.5" Long).

Snow Stakes

As someone mentioned before, I definitely have concerns with the sharp edge of the titanium cutting the guylines when it rubs. It held fine on the weekend with no sign of wear, but in a storm, there may be some issues. Looking forward to Rogers article regarding the fix, or maybe I'll try a few options out here.

Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Re : Titanium Tent Stakes on 09/20/2008 11:34:42 MDT Print View

Nice work Steven. Do you have access to a tumbler/polisher for de-burring the stakes? A day or two in one of those should round the edges.

Steven Evans
(Steve_Evans) - MLife

Locale: Canada
Re: Re : Titanium Tent Stakes on 09/20/2008 12:21:38 MDT Print View

Mike,
Good idea. I actually ended up putting the ice axe parts into a tumbler and the finish is fantastic. I'll try it out after I bend them. Even still, the titanium is 0.016" (roughly 3 pieces of paper) thick, so I still have concerns, more field testing I guess :)

I should add that as Roger mentioned, the thin metal is definitely not nice on the hands during insertion and removal, but I just couldn't bring myself to adding any more weight to these things. You only have to put them in once a day, and hey, that's why we carry first aid kits isn't it?

Edited by Steve_Evans on 09/20/2008 12:25:22 MDT.

Steven Evans
(Steve_Evans) - MLife

Locale: Canada
Re: Re: Re : Titanium Tent Stakes on 12/05/2008 08:40:47 MST Print View

Back from the bender, some deburring went a long way in smoothing the edges. Snow is falling north from here so we'll see how they work out. Snow stake is bent in 3 places, roughly 15 degrees making a nice "cup" to hold in place.

Front
Front Stakes

Back
Back Stakes

Derek Goffin
(Derekoak)

Locale: North of England
fraying of guys on 12/05/2008 08:59:13 MST Print View

could you thread a little split ring like a small keyring through 2 holes and put the guy on that?
For the summer ones I think Roger's idea is best

Edited by Derekoak on 12/05/2008 09:03:49 MST.

Steven Evans
(Steve_Evans) - MLife

Locale: Canada
Re: fraying of guys on 12/05/2008 09:03:54 MST Print View

Derek, we're obviously posting at identical times and I'm chasing your posts. :)

A key ring is a great idea! I was thinking mini-biner but like Roger said, too heavy.

Timothy Hortberg
(thortberg) - F

Locale: Midwest
Frayless guylines on 12/05/2008 09:54:26 MST Print View

Would it be possible to pass the guyline through the hole in the stake and tie it to a UL washer that is too big to pass through the hole. This would remove the contact of the guyline, leaving the metal washer in contact with the stake and stopping the fray factor.

Just an idea. I havent really tested it.

Steven Evans
(Steve_Evans) - MLife

Locale: Canada
Re: Frayless guylines on 12/05/2008 10:22:50 MST Print View

Geez, another good idea. I'll have to put the thinking cap on...at this point, I'm envisioning just using some beefy sticks with the same technique you describe...no additional weight.