Montane have added new gear to their website including a 5oz waterproof HERE. Claimed to be the lightest in the world.

The website says it is "moderately waterproof ".

To me, it looks like a winshirt with a full length zip. My other half took just her rab neutrino on our trip this week. She got wet.

I have an insulated jacket made by Montane, which is surprisingly shower resistant for it's breathability, so I could be wrong. It's not completely waterproof though.

The world's lightest waterproof is the bag your dress jacket comes back from the dry cleaners in.

Edited by tallbloke on 08/01/2008 02:27:52 MDT.

I'm not surprised she got wet in her Neutrino Roger. The jacket isn't seam-sealed, and neither is the stitching. It isn't designed for wearing in rain. Wouldn't be cold enough for me if it was raining. I've had a few Montane windshirts, and the jacket i highlited is more waterproof than a windshirt.It would be perfect for when you expect only occasional showers IMO.

Mike, I've just checked the specs and you're right. That plus a $1 festival poly poncho for real downpours would be a good solution. I'm really pleased with my Montane Toasty primaloft jacket's showerproof exterior, and the 5oz jacket you linked is probably slightly more showerproof than that.

I just found one in my other half's size on uk ebay, and now she knows the rab ain't waterproof, she's interested in buying it. Thanks for the headsup.

I have the hoodless version- the Featherlite H2O. I'd call this jacket waterproof, at least as much as my Sierra Designs Isotope. I use this jacket mainly for mountain biking and I've been very happy with its performance.

This new jacket will be high on my "new gear" list!

Enjoy,
Doug

Just a note: take care that you are purchasing the new Lite-Speed H2O, 2008 version.

I post this caution because I have a Montane Lite-Speed and it is a wind shirt and it is definitely not waterproof. But mine is about 3 years old and this is obviously a new design, which probably should have gotten a new name.

Many online retailers and ebay sell "last years" models of gear for attractive prices but, in this case, it's not just a color change so be aware.

I've been tossing up on a Litespeed vs Houdini, but it looks like this might just be a great alternative.

How breathable is the Jetstream, compared to say Paclite?

The DriDuck's jacket is really and truly waterproof and so breathable you can put it on to beat the bugs and it weighs only 6 ounces. It might be the lighter alternative in the long run.

Rod,

The Houdini has the same water resistance. Neither is suitable for rain. It is less breathable than the latest version of Paclite which, by contrast, is truly waterproof. The specs are similar to a low-end Epic fabric.

Edited by richard295 on 08/02/2008 01:02:57 MDT.

Richard, what's the MVTR for the houdini? It's not showing up in the table above.

Thanks very much Richard, but I think you may have opened a can of worms there mate. As well as Ashley's question, I'd be interested in the MVTR of Goretex Pro.

As a trade, I can supply the MVTR of my Marmot Ion, which I'm looking to replace. It's 14, but I think that might be from where I wore a hole in the fabric under the pack straps


Vick, I'm starting to think I might have to add a DriDucks to my next STP order, just to try this stuff out.

Edited by Rod_Lawlor on 08/02/2008 04:23:42 MDT.

I think it might be a good choice if you hike in an area that only has occasional rain. I wouldn't carry it as my sole rain jacket here in Scotland! Montane are releasing a new E-vent jacket in September that looks good as well.
Will i ever have enough gear!:)

Ashley,

Patagonia doesn't use any industry standard test to measure MVTR for their products and so this information has never been published. They use their own custom test. An MVTR test uses a humidity difference to create a vapor pressure between the inside and outside of a fabric. Patagonia sets the inside of the fabric at or as close as possible to 100% RH and the outside is maintained at a very even (computer controlled) 50% RH. There test must be run with no temperature gradient between the inside and outside, and it is run at their standard controlled lab temperature of 73F. What these operating conditions nicely create however is a small vapor pressure similar to what exists on a very warm and humid day. It's a worse case scenario.

My test of the Houdini fabric indicates that the MVTR is approximately equivalent to nylon face fabric used on the inside of most conventional 2 layer breathable tents. This type of fabric tests an average MVTR of 28,000 and so I would estimate this value for the Houdini. This is the highest that can be achieved without the average person sensing wind movement through the fabric.

Edited by richard295 on 08/02/2008 10:57:50 MDT.

Rod,

There are lots of Gore-Tex Pro fabrics, but the following spec is representative of what you would purchase for UL Backpacking:

GORE-TEX® PRO SHELL 2-LAYER 206
A 40-denier fabric with a mini low profile ripstop structure. Lightweight with excellent abrasion resistance for its weight. Full-dull luster. Water and windproof with great breathability and comfort. DWR treated surface.
Face material: 100% Polyamide
Membrane: ePTFE
Performance: Hydrostatic head - 28,000 mm Moisture Permeability, RET <4,5
Weight: 95 g/m2

<4.5 (US representation) RET is a Sweating Hot Plate MVTR test method preferred to be used by Gore because it provides the most favorable comparison to eVENT. The best prior Gore-Tex product had a RET of 4.9 and eVENT had a RET of 4.5 on this test. They have now matched eVENT on the sweating hot plate test but not in real world MVTR. The more realistic JIS L1099 B-1 test should still yield ~22,000 for eVENT and ~16,600 for Gore-Tex PRO or Performance.

Edited by richard295 on 08/02/2008 17:03:28 MDT.

Rod,
Yep, DriDucks are so cheap and so effective, there is no reason not to give them a try. I used the first generation (made by Kimberly-Clark, of all people) for several years. Durability is an issue - maybe. The jacket survived the entire AT and then some. Kept me alive at 0 degrees as wind gear and dry in monsoon rains. Durability? I wear them while building trails. And in the Texas woods when the bugs are bad in the summer. It's an odd feeling to put on rain gear when you are sweating in the Texas heat and humidity and feel the sweat evaporating from your skin and going away.

Richard, how does The Northface Triumph anorak wich is made of Hyvent DT compare to Paclite and eVent? I want to know how breathable and waterproof it is.

Rene`,

The North Face Hyvent DT uses a thin layer of water loving (hydrophilic) polyurethane. This is the same technology used in most low end WPB garments. TNF specs this membrane at 650 using the ASTM E 96 B Upright Cup Method (g/24hrs/m2). They state that, "While each individual test is standardized, there is nothing that requires a company to use one method over another. Unfortunately, since there is a different mechanism for moving moisture within each test there is no way to compare numbers. The North Face has historical data and has been testing via the Upright Cup for years and will continue to do so."

Contrary to their official position, I can help you blow away their smoke and provide you a number you can compare to my previously posted eVENT and Gore-Tex Paclite Water Diffusion (Breathability) g/m2 24 hours-JIS L1099 B-1 numbers. This material tests~ 11,000 versus ~21,000 for eVENT and ~17,000 for Gore-Tex Paclite.

The hydrostatic head for Hyvent DT is ~18,000 versus 30,000 for both eVENT and Gore-Tex Paclite. Although lower, it is an adequate waterproofness for Thunderstorms
.

Thanks Richard!, you've answered my questions about Hyvent DT.

René

I agree with Vick. Many times I've been temped by these super duper new 5 oz-ish "waterproof" jackets... but every time I look into the details I come to the conclusion that it's not time to give up my O2 Rainshield (aka Dri Ducks) just yet. 100% waterproof. Extremely breathable. 5 oz. As for durability... I've actually never damaged one on trail... but I've torn big holes in them twice in the city (there are a lot more metal edges and heavy objects in the city than in the woods).

I agree. I like all these new waterproof jackets but my NF DIAD has a full zip and pit zips, is truly waterproof in a real storm and hail, and has a great hood for 6.1 oz. Only driducks compares so far and it's not as durable. I think the only thing that would really knock it off is a well done silnylon or cuben rain jacket but even then it'd be non breatheable and might not be much less weight.