Rainwear Confusion...
Display Avatars Sort By:
Nick Chen
(fleetparadox) - F

Locale: Socal
Rainwear Confusion... on 07/13/2008 20:01:13 MDT Print View

I was wondering if you guys would help me solve a dilemma.

I'm trying to find rain wear for the JMT in August (hopefully the PCT in 2009)

There seems to be alot of debate on rainwear and VERY different opinions from both ends of the spectrum on my initial choices.

Driducks - Light, easily damaged, breathable

Marmot Precip - will wet out, heavier and tougher

Here is what I don't understand, there are individuals who LOVE the Precip and say they are great, and those who hate the Precip. (And the same goes for the Driducks!)

Seeing as I'm starting from scratch in this gear department... What should I get?

1) Precip Bottoms (for snow and bushes, my Only pants for the trip, besides baselayer) + Precip Top (part of layering warmth) Would 200 weight wool bottoms + Precip be enough on my legs for inactive warmth??

2) Precip Bottoms + Driducks Top (for breathability)

3) All Driducks ($ + weight) but then I'd need another layer for my legs while not moving. Windpants?

A little help please.
(Open to Alternatives besides the two!)

Edit: I can get the Precip set (both) for $110 so that is a positive factor.

Edited by fleetparadox on 07/13/2008 20:04:00 MDT.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Rainwear Confusion... on 07/13/2008 20:17:36 MDT Print View

If you are doing trail walks and looking for truly good breathability at a featherly weight -- then Dridcuks are your best bet.

If you want more durability along with truly good breathability -- then you'll have to pay a lot more for eVENT or MontBell's jackets with their proprietary "Breeze Dry Tec" wp/b laminate. Having said that, I actually think I am being unfair to Driducks. For trail walks, my Driducks are on their fifth year of service and still going strong!

Finally, if you are OK with mediocre breathability but pretty sharp looking jacket -- then Marmot Precip will fit the bill. Many Marmot Precip owners like their jackets. But if there's anyone out there who owns both a Marmot Precip and an eVENT jacket who actually believes that the Precip is comparable to eVENT in breathability -- I'd like to read about his or her actual experiences!

Edited by ben2world on 07/13/2008 20:22:27 MDT.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: Rainwear Confusion... on 07/13/2008 20:45:30 MDT Print View

Over July 4 I hiked in the Pecos Wilderness, same areas as Chupka did (nice pics). I took the old DLG silnylon rainsuit to mess around with. We ended up having rain (drizzle mixed with hail) nearly every afternoon of our 4 night/5 day hike.

The first time I used the jacket (never needed the pants), I had my hipbelt over it in front, the chest strap on and the neck drawstring closed without wearing the hood (was wearing a Tilley LT5B). As we hiked, I got warm even with temps in the 50's.

The second time I used it dayhiking I decided to alter a few things to see if it made a difference. I kept the neck drawstring loose, did not wear the hood, pulled up the front over the hipbelt and unlocked the chest strap so the whole front end could move air through it. I found I was comfortable the entire time I wore it and never heated up.

Silnylon rain suits may still be a good option if worn in this way. Equinox makes one, but their jacket seems to have too many features with that 6 oz. advertized weight.

Edited by jshann on 07/13/2008 20:51:28 MDT.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Rainwear Confusion... on 07/13/2008 21:12:11 MDT Print View

The Driducks top and a pair of windpants like Montbell's would be a great combo for the conditions you are likely to encounter on the JMT in August, or Driducks top and Golite Reed pants if you want a lightweight Waterproof and breathable(sort of) that is more durable than Driduck and still lightweight. I personally have been using an O2 Rainshield top and the Golite Reeds for 3 season Sierra trips for about 4 years now and have been very satisfied, but my next pair of pants will be Montbell windpants(even lighter and plenty adequate for summer rains in the Sierra).

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Neithr DriDucks or Marmot Precip on 07/14/2008 00:52:28 MDT Print View

DriDucks don't have the necessary durability. Marmot Precip's laminate is not durable either. (See threads on this topic)

I recommend Cabela's Rainy River Gore-Tex PacLite parka (& pants if ya want 'em). The parka sells for $79. to $89. (depending on size and length of parka. Ditto the pants).

Of course, if money was no object I'd buy an Integral Designs' Thru Hiker eVent jacket. Sadly I don't have an unlimited budget for backpacking. I know, it's shocking, but true.

The Cabels's PacLite outfit was THE best bargain I've found in good brathable AND light raingear. I like the attention to detail and features of the rain suit. And I really like their packability.

Eric
P.S. They may be on sale now.

Edited by Danepacker on 07/14/2008 12:59:14 MDT.

Brad Groves
(4quietwoods) - MLife

Locale: Michigan
Outdoor Research on 07/14/2008 10:08:36 MDT Print View

Another company making Event shells is Westcomb (and Integral Designs). If you can make the financing work, I'd try to get an Event shell, the stuff is pretty great. That said, my next shell is the OR/Outdoor Research Zealot; it's Goretex PacLite, only weighs 7 ounces, and I think they're going to discontinue it... Sierra Designs Isotope pants might be a good way to go; pants weigh less than 5 ounces, pretty inexpensive. Breathability doesn't seem to be great, but I haven't found that to be as important on my bottom layers. My two cents.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Rainwear Confusion... on 07/14/2008 10:18:52 MDT Print View

If you are looking for the highest breathability -- which seems to be the case given that you mentioned eVENT and Driducks, then know that Goretex (Paclite or XCR or any other version) is noticeably inferior in this department.

In order of breathability, it's eVENT, Montbell and Driducks -- then a pretty big drop to Goretex and the rest.

Obviously, there are other factors to consider other than breathability -- such as venting, weight, other features, price, etc. But if eVENT is "high", Goretex stuff is "middle" and others like Precip, etc. range down at "lower middle" and "lower". Stuff like Red Ledge would be considered "lower" although they do have well-designed venting.

Michael Febbo
(febbom)
Re: Rainwear Confusion... on 07/14/2008 10:30:11 MDT Print View

Regarding your question: "Here is what I don't understand, there are individuals who LOVE the Precip and say they are great, and those who hate the Precip. (And the same goes for the Driducks!)"

For the most part, the spectrum of opinions on any piece of gear is related to that person's specific activity, level of exertion, physical constitution, prefences, and experience with similar products. If you have have only ever used non-breathable raingear, then you will likely find the Precips to be a wonderful step forward. However, if you have worn Event or good Gore-tex, they will be deficient in durability and breathablity. So, past experience will likely produce different conclusions.

An example: many ice climbers here in the Northeast rave about Powershield softshells. I find my (very expenseive) Arcteryx Gamma MX to overheat quickly and be useless against any kind of non-frozen percipitation. Turns out that they were (often without acknowledgement) comparing it to wearing a Gore-Tex jacket on approach, whereas I always wore a windshirt. These different frames of reference lead to different conclusions.

If you lack a frame of reference, all you can do is compare objective properties- which you are doing. So, Precip is more abrasion resistant, but the coating does eventually flake off (so durability depends on use here). Precip is not as breathable, but looks nicer.
With that said, I'd go with the advice to look at Cabelas Paclite gear. Very good price and Paclite is more durable than both, and more breathable than Precip.

Jolly Green Giant
(regultr) - MLife

Locale: www.jolly-green-giant.blogspot.com
Re: Rain Gear on 07/14/2008 11:42:28 MDT Print View

This isn't exactly what you wanted to know - but at the end of the day I think it is more relevant. Before comparing jackets, compare fabrics. Many have already mentioned eVENT - but you really need to take this suggestion more seriously. I own both eVENT and Gore-Tex Paclite stuff and the breathabilitly of Gore-Tex isn't even on the same chart as eVENT. Just last night, we had a brief rainstorm roll through central Virginia. In an attempt to test some other gear, I got all dressed up in my backpacking stuff which included a pair of Rab eVENT pants and a Gore-Tex Paclite jacket. Within MINUTES....my upper body was sweating quite a bit even while using the cuffs and zipper to their fullest extent. In fact, after about 10 minutes, I just opted to take the jacket off and get rained on as I walked back into the house as I would rather just get rained on then be saturated with sweat. Now granted, it is humid during summer months in central VA, but my legs didn't get hot at all. It seems every time I wear this outfit I get the same result and this includes when I swap eVENT/Gore-Tex gaiters which I wear quite frequently. Personally, I'd own a eVENT jacket if it weren't for the fact that I've had a HUGE amount of trouble finding one that would fit (and one that is lightweight enough). Rab, Montane, Westcomb, and Integral Designs all make nice stuff...and I paid for one of each and ate the shipping when I returned it - but each was way too small for me (they all cut the armpit area entirely too close...maybe it's a European thing). Wild Things makes a nice jacket that would fit, but it was too heavy for something I didn't plan on using often. In short, as soon as some eVENT manufacturer makes a jacket lightweight and in my size, I'm going to buy it without hesitation....it makes THAT much difference to me. Before you get your mind wrapped around all these lightweight options, look into eVENT first and make the best choice. If you can find one that fits - BUY IT - if not, explore all these other options.

Edited by regultr on 07/14/2008 13:33:10 MDT.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Rain Gear on 07/14/2008 11:54:35 MDT Print View

James:

We share the same "predicament" actually. eVENT is the undisputed breathing champ but eVENT is not a UL laminate (light but not superlight). It's why some eVENT jacket manufacturers try to shave weight with smaller sizing and tighter cutting -- as well as dispensing with all venting except for the front zipper (which really can't be opened in the rain). Then they try to tell people that eVENT makes venting obsolete -- which not only isn't true but is more a reflection of manufacturer's dishonesty and desperation (trying to cut weight off a laminate that isn't so light to begin with).

Like you, I too will spring for a UL eVENT rain jacket with pit zips. But for now -- I find my MontBell Peak Shell jacket a great "runner up". It comes close to the breathability of eVENT (no Goretex or any other PU wp/b laminate or coating can make this claim) -- it is made much more versatile with different venting options and other user friendly features -- and it still manages to come in at under 11 ounces for a medium. Folks can get it down to 10 oz. by snipping off unneeded features.

If high breathability is the target, stay away from Goretex or any other laminates/coatings that require an additional PU layer to keep rain out.

Edited by ben2world on 07/14/2008 11:56:39 MDT.

Art Sandt
(artsandt) - F
rainwear recommendation on 07/14/2008 12:31:46 MDT Print View

If you believe all the stories about raingear posted on this site, you might get a picture of all these people wearing their rain jackets on hot, humid days, sweating buckets into their rain jackets and expecting the jacket to do all the work of evaporating the sweat. No jacket, not even an eVENT one, is completely up to this task. Again, if you believe people's stories, the eVENT will keep you a little drier than the other laminates will, but it's not cotton. You're still dealing with two layers of ripstop nylon and a waterPROOF membrane.

There's also the issue, as someone mentioned, of various individuals' frame of reference. For instance James posted a story about how he was wearing eVENT pants and a Gore-tex top and how his upper body got more overheated so he concluded it was the Gore-tex that was at fault. I would seriously question this conclusion. The upper body generates more sweat and has more surface area than the lower body. Thus, it will always feel hotter than the lower body. I don't mean to pick on James in particular. I'm just saying we all have our own anecdotal evidence to support our opinions, but anecdotal evidence is not the same as empirical evidence from a controlled experiment (for various practical reasons in this regard--who has the money to buy every type of raingear there is anyway?). Again I don't mean to pick on James in particular, but probably 95% of the people who post to this forum, myself included, form our opinions from anecdotal evidence, so it's always important to keep these things in mind.

If you want my recommendation, just get some raingear made of Goretex Paclite. It's proven its merit for me many times in terms of breathability and breathability, is generally lighter than the eVENT gear, and not as expensive as eVENT either. Moreover, if you plan on sweating buckets into a rain jacket, at least there are some Paclite jackets available with pit zips.

I use an OR Zealot jacket (no pit zips) and OR Celestial pants as my main raingear. On shorter trips, I'll use Driducks pants for the weight, but trailside brambles and such can tear those to shreds so I don't like to depend on Driducks for longer hikes.

Edited by artsandt on 07/14/2008 12:54:52 MDT.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: rainwear recommendation on 07/14/2008 12:47:16 MDT Print View

Good point, Art. We are talking about relativity here. One can sweat buckets wearing a thin cotton layer in Houston -- or even hiking stark naked!

OTOH, the same relativity goes for durability as well. Face it, any "trailside brambles and such" that can actually "tear [Driducks] to shreads" will also tear ultralight / ultrathin nylon! Yes, even ripstop nylon.

Reading the posts above, hardcore bushwhackers are likely smirking and shaking their heads at ALL of our recommendations. It's all relative. But given OP's purpose (trail walking the JMT) -- Driducks and any of the other UL garments mentioned are more than tough enough. I hiked up Mt. Whitney wearing my Driducks jacket and it performed wonderfully.

Edited by ben2world on 07/14/2008 12:57:09 MDT.

Brett Peugh
(bpeugh) - F - M

Locale: Midwest
DriDucks on 07/14/2008 13:00:22 MDT Print View

I still have my Marmot Oracle jacket and pants that I use for the rugged stuff in cold temps.

If you are just trail hiking I would use the upgraded DriDucks jacket. It weighs a few ounces more but is much more durable and has more features. For the pants, just make a kilt out of thin plastic and a little velcro and wear it above your hips to keep it there.

Brett Peugh
(bpeugh) - F - M

Locale: Midwest
Pants on 07/14/2008 13:06:32 MDT Print View

Or just get a really cheap thin pair of silnylon ones and spray them down with DWR.

Mark Verber
(verber) - MLife

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: rainwear recommendation on 07/14/2008 13:09:44 MDT Print View

The JMT is the equivalent of a back country super highway which poses no threat to DriDucks from a durability perspective. If I was choosing rain gear for the JMT in Aug it would be a DriDucks jacket and skip the pants. Wear shorts of zipoffs that dry reasonably quickly.

When thinking about raingear on more generic terms...

I would agree that no rain gear works very well in hot humid conditions. Then again, why wear rain gear in those conditions? Why not wear fast drying clothing and enjoy the cooling effect of the rain?

As to eVENT -vs- PacLite... I have also found eVENT to be superior. I think there are two factors beyond the pure "breathability" numbers. The first is the form of transmission that is used. All forms of Gore Tex and most PU items like Precip require water vapor to condense before it's transmitted. PacLite is better than most at buffering this effect, but it's pretty easy to overwhelm. So even if the vapor transmission is adequate in these garments, they are going to feel clammy against the skin. The second issue is that most human perception tests have shown that air permeability has a large impact in human perception of "breathability".

That's why people like DriDucks, Montbell's Peak, and eVENT. All three materials let water vapor vent directly. None of them will keep me sweat free when it's 60F... but on a hard uphill, neither does my base layer without anything over it.

My recommend has been go with DriDucks if you care about cost and aren't doing a lot of off trail hiking in scrub country. If you need something a bit more durable I think it's worth the extra cost / weight of Montbell's BreezeTech or eVENT rather than PacLite and most other options. If you are facing really abrasive conditions or really nasty scrub, then none of the ultralight materials we typically talk about here will survive very long.

Edited by verber on 07/14/2008 13:28:01 MDT.

David Stenberg
(dstenberg1) - F

Locale: South
Re: Re: rainwear recommendation on 07/14/2008 13:21:28 MDT Print View

I would vote for the Driducks jacket. I have taken it on many hikes and haven't gotten any holes yet. On the JMT you won't have to worry about any vegetation getting your jacket. Just be careful of some of the rocks when you are lounging around.

I would recommend Golite Whim pants if you are looking a wind pant type layer.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: rainwear recommendation on 07/14/2008 13:37:01 MDT Print View

Coming to think of it... PCT in August -- I'd leave the rain pants at home. No wind pants either. A quick-drying nylon hiking pants (e.g. REI Sahara convertible pants) should be just fine.

Edited by ben2world on 07/14/2008 13:38:05 MDT.

Steven Toney
(stevetoney@cox.net) - F
Re: Re: Rainwear Confusion... on 07/14/2008 14:58:58 MDT Print View

I have both.. Precip jacket and full zip pants for a few years. Just received this summer a Montane Quickfire jacket and Montane Venture pants in Event

Had to get the stuff from England. Expensive.. eVent is amazing stuff. it really does breathe while being waterproof - so far

As for durability, time will time.. These are exceeding well detailed and finished products

Chris W
(simplespirit) - MLife

Locale: .
Nothing but quick-dry clothing on 07/14/2008 15:01:41 MDT Print View

I don't know that much about the JMT but I just did a section of Smokies here in the SE and took my rain jacket with me but wound up not wearing it during a 2-3 hour downpour. My reasoning is I would've sweated so much in it that I would've been just as wet as I was not wearing it and the temps were warm so I did just as Mark suggested and enjoyed the cooling effect of the rain. My GF wore her Precip jacket during the same downpour but more for warmth because she tends to get chilled easily.

Edited by simplespirit on 07/14/2008 15:02:51 MDT.

Troy Meadows
(LightWorker) - MLife

Locale: Sierra foothills
Rain gear just my 2cents on 07/14/2008 22:43:12 MDT Print View

I have both a paclite jacket and just recently The triumph anorak from North Face made from hyvent. Now to me north face has been a four letter word in the past. But I must say that for the weight 5.4oz this anorak dose the trick keeps me dry and a lot more breathable than the paclight even though it has pitzips. For leg protection I love my ULA rain wrap paired with a event gaiters. The rain wrap weighs a mere 3oz keep most of your legs dry down to your lower calve and because it is basically a sil nylon skirt I never get hot in it. Also it has tie out loops on the corners and covers from the tip of my toes to my chin when staked out flat on the ground pretty decent for a ground cloth. Did i mention that it only cost 25bucks!!!

Brett Peugh
(bpeugh) - F - M

Locale: Midwest
Rainwear below freezing on 07/15/2008 12:31:58 MDT Print View

I am trying to remember a few threads on here that talked about WPB type materials and below freezing conditions and that they would freeze up and not let the moisture pass out. Am I remembering that correctly?

Kathleen B
(rosierabbit) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
rain gear - rain wrap on 07/15/2008 13:22:36 MDT Print View

Troy - do you have dork issues when wearing the ULA rain wrap? I was given one as a gift and like its features and multi-use, but wearing a blue plastic skirt is raising vanity issues I didn't know I had.

Duane Hall
(PKH) - M

Locale: Nova Scotia
Rain wrap on 07/15/2008 14:24:10 MDT Print View

Can't speak to Troy's dork issues with the rain wrap, but I have resolved my own! The bottom line is this piece of kit works. Most of the kids who giggle at me are lugging loads of 30 to 40 lbs, and are using entirely conventional main stream gear. They also tell me it's impossible to backpack in sandals and umbrellas are for Mary Poppins. Who cares what people think?

On the other hand I have no idea why Brian Frankel chose neon blue for his "skirts". It sure is hard on the eyes.

Cheers

Eric Noble
(ericnoble) - MLife

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Rainwear below freezing on 07/15/2008 15:35:36 MDT Print View

Brett, I think what your trying to remember is related to EPIC treated fabric. Ryan Jordan mentioned this in a post some time ago. I'm going off my memory and I believe this was over 2 years ago, at least, so I could be wrong.

Nick Chen
(fleetparadox) - F

Locale: Socal
Rainwear Confusion on 07/15/2008 15:47:59 MDT Print View

Thanks everyone for their helpful comments.

As much as I would like to try Event, the cost is a bit too high for me.

Bottoms:

Since my rainpants are going to be my only pants (besides lightweight smartwool bottoms) I think I need a bit more durability than Driducks.

The Revised choices are: Precip ($42) or Golite Whim Windpants($45)

Can the Whim survive as my rainpants for a Thru-hike of the PCT? Will it keep me dry even in WA?

Jacket:

I'm leaning towards the OR Zealot for the lightest Paclite ($120) with Driduck top as backup. At 7.7oz (advertised) does it eliminate my need for a windshirt? Any other jackets I should consider within a $150 range?

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Rainwear Confusion on 07/15/2008 16:07:51 MDT Print View

Hi Nick

I took the Whims to France for 3 months. They are not 100% waterproof, but they worked very well. See
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/caffin_gear_list_revisited.html
for my comments.

See also
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Rain%20Gear/Jackets%20and%20Pants/GoLite%20Whim%20Pants/Roger%20Caffin/Long%20Term%20Report
for reviews at BGT.

Cheers

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Rainwear Confusion on 07/15/2008 16:14:01 MDT Print View

Pants -- For a summer hike in California -- where rain is relatively infrequent and short in duration -- I wouldn't hike full-time in rain pants.

Jackets -- So, just one pair of pants and yet two separate wp/b jackets -- an OR Zealot with a Driduck top as backup? Why? Just bring the Driduck top. Say you get a scratch or a puncture. One small piece of duck tape and you're good to go. You really don't need two wp/b jackets. Again, IMO, the Driducks will be both lighter and more versatile as it is 100% rainproof and windproof -- but airy enough that you can use as a windshirt as well.

Nick Chen
(fleetparadox) - F

Locale: Socal
Rainwear Wording Confusion on 07/15/2008 16:19:06 MDT Print View

Roger,

Thank you for the insight. You mentioned that you never had to deal with abrasion resistance with the Whim, but would you say they can withstand sitting on rocks (carefully) and the longevity of a thruhike of the PCT?

Ben,

Sorry if my wording was a bit misleading. I meant that I would carry the Zealot and probably purchase the Driducks as a backup (for my bounce box) but not actually carry them.

The Driducks would probably be fine for just a 2 week hike in the Sierras but I'm hoping to do the PCT in 2009 so they may not be durable enough for the extended use in WA (?). Not completely sure about that but that is my assumption. Also, the zealot would probably act as part of my layering system.

Smartwool Midweight
Marmot Driclime
Down Vest/Jacket
Rain Jacket (Zealot?)

What do you guys think?

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Rainwear Wording Confusion on 07/15/2008 17:00:53 MDT Print View

Nick:

There are any ways of combining layers... Since some portion of your hike will be in relatively warm weather, I would go for light weight Smartwool (or equivalent) as base layer. It's always easier to add on / take off outer layers versus a base that's too warm for the environment at hand.

The next point is not so much 'right or wrong' per se but just a matter of difference in degree. I sometimes hike in my insulation layer -- in cold mornings before the hike generates sufficient body heat. I take care to peel off the insulation before soaking it in sweat. Methinks a synthetic layer (e.g. MontBell Thermawrap) is more versatile and much more 'forgiving' than down insulation for active wear. Just food for thought.

Finally, for most three-season hikes (including temps a bit below freezing) -- I find three layers -- base plus synthetic insulation plus a good wp/b shell -- more than enough. At camp, the sleeping bag can be pressed into service even when temps drop significantly. I think I would leave out the Marmot Driclime.

Brett Tucker
(blister-free) - F

Locale: Puertecito ruins
Re: Rainwear Wording Confusion on 07/15/2008 17:10:11 MDT Print View

Nick - the target audience for your question should probably be veteran PCT thru-hikers. Talk to them, and I suspect you'll find that Driducks or equivalent are both workable and preferable to more heavy-duty options, all along the trail.

I used Frog Toggs back in 2001, along with an umbrella in WA. The Rain Wrap is a great concept for high-metabolic thru-hiking, since keeping rain off the lower body during a thru-hike is primarily an issue of comfort, and comfort is mostly a thigh, crotch & butt area matter in this case.

Perhaps the bounce box could be used to carry a backup Driducks jacket, to allay any concerns about durability.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Rainwear Wording Confusion on 07/15/2008 17:20:27 MDT Print View

Hi Nick

> You mentioned that you never had to deal with abrasion resistance with the Whim, but would you say they can withstand sitting on rocks (carefully) and the longevity of a thruhike of the PCT?

Chuckle. We do a lot of walking in sandstone canyon country and in thick fire-hardened Australian scrub. When we talk about abrasion resistance we are thinking about 500 denier Cordura!

Yes, certainly the Whims will take careful sitting on rock. The fabric is quite strong, all things considered.

How long are you planning on hiking the PCT for, and is it a clear track or a blazed trail through scrub? The answers are obviously very important. We wore the Whims a lot over the first 2 months in France, and I have also worn them for a week in the snow country. I think they will last for a long while if treated with care. Go for a sitting glissade on scree, and it won't be just the Whims which get shredded!

What I have found is that many of the UL fabrics do slide over stuff quite well when they are wet.

Cheers
Roger

Alvie Morton
(rootball) - F

Locale: West Port
I have both on 07/15/2008 18:39:53 MDT Print View

The ducks work very well. The only drawback is that they are easily damaged. I still wear the Precip pants, but the top was too wet so I changed it out for a Patagonia Rainshadow. Same weight, but much drier. The Rainshadow hood could have been designed better - I do not wear a rock helmet so it does fit very well. But to be honest I only use the Rainshadow and Precip pants in winter. Driducks are definately my choice for any weather above 35*. I am not sure why you would need secondary pants for camp use. I find the driduck pants to be very adept at use around camp- as long as I do not bushwhack for firewood or water. I say buy both - use the ducks and if its not for you then have the Precip sent postal.

Dev Anand
(anand_dev) - MLife

Locale: Wanowrie
Re: Rainwear Confusion... on 07/16/2008 03:29:26 MDT Print View

sierra designs isotope = 5.6 oz
ULA Rain Skirt = 2.9 oz
Total = 8.5 oz

Troy Meadows
(LightWorker) - MLife

Locale: Sierra foothills
ULA rain wrap issues on the Dork side on 07/16/2008 23:39:28 MDT Print View

To reply to some earlier post on this thread. No I have no dork issues wearing my wonderful rain skirt. But I did have vanity issues with the color Brian chose for his product so I emailed him offering to send him sil nylon in the colors would have rather had (Gray for my self black for my girl)
Brian emailed me back and stated that blue would have to do.
But a month later when I finally ordered several products from ULA he must have took my sorrow to heart because he informed me that he indeed had black rain wraps available. So every time you put on your extremely functional piece of eyesooringly blue rain gear you can think of me sporting my equally functional Black one
Again let me say that the Rain wrap is one of my favorite pieces of gear. For the weight, price, multiuse, and function. You can not beat it. If you can get over wearing a waterproof skirt on the trail.

Stuart Allie
(stuart.allie)

Locale: Australia
Alternative to rain skirt - shorts! on 07/17/2008 04:54:23 MDT Print View

Many years ago I got tired of sweating inside vey non-breathable waterproof pants. I also wore gaiters all the time so having w/p pants over the top was a bit of overkill. My solution? Turn the pants into shorts! I cut off the pants just below the level of the tops of the gaiters. Now I had some ventilation, the gaiters kept the scrub and water (mostly) off my lower legs, my upper legs were dry, and I even saved some weight :)

Some people laughed at my "waterproof shorts" but they worked for me. Looking at the rain skirt, I think it is close to being a baggy pair of w/p shorts...

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: ULA rain wrap issues on the Dork side on 07/17/2008 08:54:54 MDT Print View

Etoway Outfitters also sells a black rain wrap.