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Franco Malaguti
(franco) - F
NaCl solution on 07/08/2008 03:55:47 MDT Print View

hi there

I want to prepare a NaCl/KCl saturated solution in water, adding a few drops in my bottle in order to resupply my body of lost salts from perspiration.
On the trail/bicycle ride I find it more practical than adding grains of salt to water. My concern is the long term potability: even a small amount of solution should last me weeks, so I'm asking if anyone knows for sure that a saturated NaCl solution will make microbiological growth impossible (bacteria, vira and such), or at least delay it for a very long time.

franco

Derek Goffin
(Derekoak)

Locale: North of England
NaCl on 07/08/2008 06:21:37 MDT Print View

you are going to give all living things a hsrd time with saturated salt solution. I am not brave enough to say nothing will live in there but I think the saline solution will be clean for a good while.
What ratio of Sodium to Potassium are you going to dose yourself with?

JR Redding
(GrinchMT) - F
Hydration mix on 07/08/2008 11:21:48 MDT Print View

I would suggest using something like Elixir tabs or, you can get flavored hydration drink packets from Crystal Light, Propel and others. None of them contain sugar so they clean well from platy bottles and Camelbacks. Might be a tad easier than making your own solution.

Best,

--Joe
www.bozemanstoveworks.com

Franco Malaguti
(franco) - F
Re: NaCl on 07/09/2008 11:46:05 MDT Print View

"What ratio of Sodium to Potassium are you going to dose yourself with?"
about 3:1
I've done no specific research, but I know that NaCl being main extracellular salt, it is lost by a much larger degree through perspiration. I also eat fruit and vegetables during my rides, so I figure I'm on a balanced mineral diet anyway.

I know there are isotonic ready-to-use preparations out there, but why spend money silly? ;-)

Lyan Jordan
(redmonk)

Locale: Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
NaCl solution on 07/09/2008 12:24:16 MDT Print View

The ratio in the drink I like to use is
1:2:8:26 = Calcium : Magnesium : Potassium : Sodium

Sodium amount is 360mg / 500 ml solution.

Calcium and Sodium are supplied as carbonates (Na2C03, and CaC03)
Potassium is supplied as bicarbonate (KHC03)
Magnesium is supplied as sulfate (MgS04)

I think gatorade and similar use NaCl, KCl etc. I went with carbonate based salts because I sometimes take pills that pull carbonate from the body.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: NaCl on 07/09/2008 17:24:46 MDT Print View

Hi Franco,
One source you might check is an outfit called First Endurance. They make a sports drink powder called E.F.S., short for Electrolyte Fuel System, which contains glucose and a full spectrum of electrolytes. It has worked really well for me the last several years. The reason I mention it is not to get you to buy it, but to maybe go online and check out the amounts of sodium, potassium, calcium, and magnesium in their product, as well as the chemical compounds that provide them(e.g. NaCl, CaCO3, MgO, etc). Then you would have an idea of the amounts you would need to put in your own formulation, as well as the source compounds. They are the only company that I know of that uses all four major electrolytes involved in muscle contraction/relaxation in significant quantities.

Edited by ouzel on 07/09/2008 17:28:33 MDT.

Christopher Plesko
(Pivvay) - F

Locale: Rocky Mountains
nacl solution, no way on 07/11/2008 17:02:30 MDT Print View

That sounds like waaaay too much work. Just get some endurolyte capsules from Hammer Nutrition and you're done.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: nacl solution, no way on 07/11/2008 18:06:59 MDT Print View

That sounds like waaaay too much money. If he's going to go commercial, he might as buy the EFS. It's cheaper and he'd get some energy(glucose) along with his electrolytes. One serving of EFS contains more than 6 times the sodium, potassium, and magnesium of an Endurolytes capsule, and twice the calcium; A 120 capsule container of Endurolytes lists at $18.95; A 25 serving container of EFS lists at $19.95, so he'd get 5 extra electrolyte equivalent servings of EFS for a dollar more plus the glucose(96 calories worth). Cheaper? By ~$.15/serving. No big deal, but it adds up in the long run. The potential downside to EFS is that it weighs more because of the added glucose. The only reason I mentioned it in my original post was as a template for a MYOS(make your own solution) project. If that's waaay too much work, going commercial is the pricier alternative. Another MYOS option is to use Mortons "Lite Salt", which supplies 290 mg of sodium and 350 mg of potassium per 1/4 tsp(1.4 g). This, added to water(possibly flavored with Crystal Lite, etc), supplemented with a 200 mg magnesium tablet and a 330 mg calcium tablet would provide electrolytes equivalent to ~ 2 servings of EFS, or 12 Endurolyte capsules and be cheaper than either. So, I'd say there are lots of ways to approach the problem. Whatever flips your switches.

Christopher Plesko
(Pivvay) - F

Locale: Rocky Mountains
Re: Re: nacl solution, no way on 07/11/2008 19:10:52 MDT Print View

I don't like my electrolytes tied to simple sugars and I often take just one Endurolyte at a time. Just something to keep in mind. Plus the capsules make for easy and less messy storage. If you want to mix them in with your drink, just pop them open. Otherwise down the hatch they go :)

I agree there is plenty of options out there though. Also check out Nuun if you want some flavor! :)

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: nacl solution, no way on 07/11/2008 19:52:27 MDT Print View

Lots of options, for sure. Nuun is a good one, especially for flavor, but again, pricey. Pretty much boils down to personal taste. As you might've guessed, I'm on the other end of the spectrum-glucose burns "clean" in my engine. One thing I forgot to mention for the OP, who wanted a 3:1 ratio of Na to K, is to use regular old table salt, which is pure NaCl, for the Na and Mortons "Salt Substitute", which is pure KCl, for the potassium. That way he can get the exact proportion he wants. I think he still needs to get calcium and magnesium in there for a more complete electrolyte profile, but that's strictly his call.

Franco Malaguti
(franco) - F
electrolytes on 07/13/2008 02:27:42 MDT Print View

^ I do: I regularly consume fruit and vegetables during my rides/walks as well.
The main reason I add salts to water (and some chopped lemon) is to make it more palatable after the first couple of liters and if it gets lukewarm in summertime.
I wouldn't mind adding more electrolytes to my solution, but to date I haven't found a cheap source for them in the very small amount I need. I should befriend a chemist/pharmacist :-D