For PCT (2009 maybe) which one would you prefer? Or is this even workable? (simplicity/comfort/flexibility/weight/cost/).

20F down bag - 28 oz (WM Ultralite)

or

40F down bag - 15 oz (WM Highlite)
+ Cocoon PRO 60 jacket - 10 oz (already have this)
+ Cocoon UL 60 Pants - 6.8
= 31.8 oz


The rest of the clothing does have/plan
Merino wool long sleeve
Merino wool long johns
Icebreaker Atlantis Hood
OR contour pants
Wind shirt (patagonia houdini)

Edited by anand_dev on 07/05/2008 04:23:37 MDT.

I'd go with the 15 ounce bag plus clothes, otherwise you could be pretty miserable while waiting for your food to cook.

Those Cocoon beg to be used at camp and in bed, so it would make sense to me to use them. My view is that if you get into bed cold, it's very hard to warm up. However I would also look at the Summerlite , for the extra 3 oz (yes, I know....) you get a full zip and continuous baffles, adding tremendously to the versatility of the system.
This is particularly so if you sleep on your back; shift the down to the top and you gain a several more degrees .
Of course you need to work out if you can stand wearing the Cocoon at night.


Franco

> Those Cocoon beg to be used at camp and in bed,
Like this:?


Both a Cocoon jacket (blue) and a Cocoon hood.
Well, it got down to about freezing that night, and we were using UL summer quilts.

Yes, you can feel the bulk of the Cocoon in bed, but when it is cold enough you just don't care!

Yes, we were warm enough. :-)

Cheers

On the PCT in 2004, I used a 20 degree WM Alpinlite to Tahoe, switched out for a cheap Kelty Lightyear 40 to Ashland, and got my Alpinlite back for the rest of the way.

This worked fine for me - the bag was warm enough for all those cold nights early on, and rainy/snowy nights in OR (unseasonable and unexpected) and WA (expected). The Kelty in the hot dusty days of NorCal in summer was all I needed, and I didn't bring much extra clothing - didn't mind getting the bag dirty with DEET and trail grime. If you get a WM bag, I'd suggest a full zip one, so you can open it up quilt-style in warmer weather (the Alpinlite is a WARM bag).

I wouldn't bother carrying insulated top and bottoms to make a sleeping bag stretch from 40 to 25 or whatever. Too much bulk and fuss for me. When I get to camp and I'm cold, I get in my sleeping bag and cook from there, in the vestibule of the tarptent if it's raining. It's too hot in insulation to hike with a pack on (most of the time), so I don't carry them. Perhaps if I did the PCT again I would just carry a Micropuff vest and Houdini windshirt for protection (and a MLD poncho tarp for rain/pack cover) - at least until the mosquitoes get bad! Then I would want an enclosed shelter for those few weeks. I did carry thin long-johns for sleeping when I had my Alpinlite - both for bag cleanliness and also to have a dry pair of clothes to change into after a day of hiking in the rain - I kept my sleeping clothes in the dry bag with my sleeping bag.

Part of it depends of how cold you get, etc. As long as my torso is warm, I'm fine. I hiked in shorts in the rain and snow, and was fine. YMMV. Of course, I learned a lot on the PCT and afterwards, so if I did the PCT again, it would be with a much lighter setup in general (I was more of a lightweight backpacker then, not an ~SUL like I try now.)

Cheers to your hike... it's a great adventure!

Edited by DaveT on 07/07/2008 13:00:05 MDT.

Dave T. Interesting. The more I read about hikers experiences on the PCT the more I notice that most of them carried a 20F down bag. And most of them carried just one bag all the way. Also, those who didn't carry one, wished they had and recommend others to do so.

Also, just received YOGI's PCT hand bood and that confirmed the same.

I guess for small hikes of just 2 weeks or so the fuss of changing into and out of sleeping clothes is not that big a deal. But, in a hike of about 6 months this process could be real pain every day.

But, in I am worried about the Sierra's will a 40 F bag with the Cocoon pants and jacket even cut it. Also, can I use cocoon pro jacket as normal wear during the day. I was worried about its durabality for these tasks. I reckon gear for PCT requires durability more than anything else.

I am just under 6 pound base pack weight with my current gearlist.

Edited by anand_dev on 07/09/2008 22:57:57 MDT.

This sounds encouraging. Now there is the question of durability. Yes, 3oz extra for Summerlite is definitely worth considering.

I know this is subjective, but what was the lowest temp you went and still found this system effective.

> And most of them carried just one bag all the way.

I was happy to switch out my 20 degree bag for a cheap 40 bag for the predictably hot and dusty and sweaty NorCal sections. But yes, I loved my 20 degree bag the rest of the way. Note that some of the coldest sections of the PCT can be the very early days of late April and the beginning of May, up in the San Jacintos and San Bernardinos. Even though you are higher up in the High Sierra, it's June when you are there, and usually sunny and nice. I was colder by Mt. Baldy than anywhere in the Sierra!


> I guess for small hikes of just 2 weeks or so the fuss of changing into and out of sleeping clothes is not that big a deal. But, in a hike of about 6 months this process could be real pain every day.

I don't see it as a pain. I see it as about 60 seconds of transitioning from trail grime to clean(er) sleeping clothes and the comfy warm bed. And it keeps your expensive 20 degree down bag much cleaner vs. trail clothes!

I personally wouldn't bother carry any insulated clothing that was too hot to (almost) ever hike in. On the PCT in CA, you'll always be hotter rather than colder. When it's cold, you are usually in camp and in bed. When you are hiking in the snow in the High Sierra under sunny skies, you'll be roasting, not freezing!

I wish I knew everything I know NOW when I did my thru-hike in 2004... I would've carried a LOT less weight!

Cheers for your hike!

I carried the mtn hardwear phantom 15 plus a montbell thermawrap inner jacket. I found that usually I just wanted to crawl in my bag at the end of the day, so camp clothes weren't really necessary. However, my friend and I were pretty typical 19 year olds so we started hiking late every day and slacked, so we were almost always hiking a little into the dark. I slept in the montbell every night it was cold, and it is unbelievably flat at this point which leads me to doubt the longevity of the cocoons, particularly for a trip that long. As was noted, the coldest parts are the start, the sierra, and then northern washington. I wouldn't want to be facing weather in the northern cascades with a compromised sleeping system. If I did it again I'd carry less weight and use a quilt, bivy and tarp combo. One big advantage of the quilt that I was envious of was the vastly increased drying time over a down bag.


Oh, and I think you said you were going to take an atlantis wool hoody, which I would get rid of. A powerstretch shirt would be far lighter for the warmth, and a warm layer for hiking beyond a rain shell was totally unnecessary in my experience.

Hi Dev

> I guess for small hikes of just 2 weeks or so the fuss of changing into and out of sleeping
> clothes is not that big a deal. But, in a hike of about 6 months this process could be real
> pain every day.

On the contrary. Getting out of wet trail clothes and into dry warm sleeping clothes in the evening can be a real boost, and the longer the trip the more you appreciate it. We did it for 3 months in France on the GR5 (and other tracks).

Cheers

? "One big advantage of the quilt that I was envious of was the vastly increased drying time over a down bag." ?

Is this a typo?
What do/did you mean?

No, that's what I meant.

My bag was a half zip, so I couldn't expose as much of it to the sun or fire as one could for a full zip or a quilt. Also, I think because you aren't sleeping on top of a significant chunk of down, a quilt traps less moisture in the night.

Ha, Simon. I think you meant vastly *decreased* drying time!

Ahhh, right you are, I guess I was thinking increased drying speed. Now I understand the confusion.