This winter season I will be starting to do some ski touring and showshoe trips. I have winter camped before but never the Lightweight way. I am looking at lightweight options available so that I can keep the good ole weight down. I would be going into the Sierra's from January-April. I own a Western Mountaineering Antelope down bag too if that helps.

Does anyone know of a source for a torso length down or synthetic insulated inflatable mattress?

Insul Mat Max Thermo possibly?

Warmlite will cut any of the 4 DAM's they make short for you. You still pay the regular price and you tell them which model and how long you want it made.

I have talked to them about doing one for me but I can't decide how long I want it.

Why don't you just get a down-filled air mattress from Outdoor Research?

I believe they make two thicknesses. The Exped 7 is 2" and the Exped 9 is 3.5". I believe the Exped 7 comes in 3/4 length as well.

I don't like the Exped. The Warmlite is warmer (7oz of Down vs 5oz for the Exped)) much higher "R" value and easier to blow up. But that is just my opinion.

The Warmlite DAM is also considerably lighter than the Exped. Additionally, if Stephenson's is using the same down as their sleeping bags, the down is 850+ down while Exped uses 700+ down. Therefore, as Bill indicates, the Warmlite DAM should be warmer (due to higher loft and more down).

Rich

Bill said,
"much higher "R" value and easier to blow up. "
I would just like to note that I dont recomend blowing into a down filled air matress because of the moisture. so just from looking I think the exped would be a better choice because the stuf sack acts as a pump so you dont harm your precious down
scroll to the bottom of this page to see pics http://www.moontrail.com/sleeping_pads/exped_downairmattress.html

but I dont use either of theese so I would recomend using a combo of a Gossamer gear thinlight and thermarest ridgerest for a warm pad

Edited by ryanf on 10/24/2005 16:11:52 MDT.

I use the Exped 7 std length, however they do have a 3/4 length that is much lighter.BTW I have noticed that some have problems with inflating them. A much easier way for me than the recommended one is to hold the valve with one hand (so that it does not pop out) shake the bag from the inside with the other, to create volume, fold and pump down holding the bag up rather than rolling on the ground as shown by Exped.This helps if you are pressed for space.

Bill said,
"much higher "R" value and easier to blow up. "

Ryan F said
"I would just like to note that I dont recomend blowing into a down filled air matress because of the moisture.

[Gee, do you think you are the only one that ever had that thought]

so just from looking

[looking at what/where Ryan F.??]

"I think the exped would be a better choice because the stuf sack acts as a pump so you dont harm your precious down

["harm my precious down?? that doesn't sound very friendly Ryan F] [I even use a small air pump on my Home-Made DAM]

scroll to the bottom of this page to see pics http://www.moontrail.com/sleeping_pads/exped_downairmattress.html"

[As far as looking at the Moontrail web site, they are located maybe about 12 miles from my house and I have seen and touched most everything they have that I had any interest in. I have been there 5 or 6 times in the last few months and have another visit planned soon.]

"but I dont use either of theese so I would recomend using a combo of a Gossamer gear thinlight and thermarest ridgerest for a warm pad"

[been there done that. My interest is in sleeping warm in my Hammock down to at least 0 degrees. The DAM helps me do that without all the underpad/overpad stuff.]

Ryan F: Maybe it just your age, I was beginning to think you were a very bright and well read young man. You don't seem to know anything about how the Warmlite DAM works. "IF" you HAD any creditability I think you have now lost a lot of it. If you do some real research and check out the Warmlite web site you might get a surprise, I expect you will get more than one surprise.

So Ryan F. we all say/write things that sometimes come back to bit us. It has also happened to me at least once in my life, I think. We get over it, you have done good here, I think we all still like you.

As a side note, you may not be old enough to look at the Warmlite web site. I only say that so no one can say I didn't warn you.

Sorry if I offended you any way Bill I did not mean to in at all. I was just trying to say that the down would not work as well if you add the moisture,and I called the down "precious" because it is what gives the pad its warmth. also when I said "your" I was reffering to anyone who owns the pad I was not directing it twords you. I liked the idea of the stuffsack/pump so I recomended it, but made sure I mentioned I had neither of the pads, so my remarks werent completely valid.
I was not at all trying to attack you, I know you are more experienced than me and would never dream of making fun of you.

Edited by ryanf on 10/24/2005 18:04:49 MDT.

Once again sorry for the misunderstanding. I think you thought I was talking to you individually but I ment to be speaking to the forum in genral

Gee, Bill, you sound almost as crotchety as 'ole Jack
himself over at the Stephenson Skunk Works. To be fair to young Ryan, I never thought much of the DAM concept in years past. An old climbing partner had lots of trouble with his Stephenson model (leaks,bad seals,bad pump) and eventually threw his away. Sounds (in theory) like a nice idea for you hammocking types. Decadence , sheer decadence.

Give the kid a break --he seems to have a fast learning curve and soon will have the width and breadth of outdoor equipment figured out better than the likes of us do now.

Tsk,tsk---contibuting to the deliquency of a minor
by suggesting he check out the Stephenson Website. ;-)>

Edited by kdesign on 10/24/2005 18:19:15 MDT.

Ryan, great insight and Bill too, heck all of you. I just want to figure out a lightweight pad option for snow camping. I have bought a Thinlight insulation pad to back up whatever I end up purchasing. Exped I completely forgot about. I will take a look. More so than not me, I want my wife to be warm so that she will enjoy the backcountry in the winter like I do. She is a cold sleeper so my goal is to make her warm as possible. Me, I am a warm sleeper.

PS Ryan your ok it did not come out like you were attacking Bill. BTW for someone your age (and how old are you) you seem to have some good knowledge, good for you.

Im 13 and have been backpacking since I was 11. I understand I am not as experienced as most of you (Ihave only had this supscription for 3 months) but I think I have enough knowledge to give some valuble advice in theese forums.I mean, I do carry a sub 4 pound load while backpacking, some experience required ( I started with a 40 pound load, and lightened with no help)

p.s. Ken, sorry to have turned your forum into a conflict, I didnt mean to

Edited by ryanf on 10/24/2005 18:36:14 MDT.

Last winter on my single snowshoe trip with temps down to zero Farenheit, I used the Thermarest Ultralight 3/4 plus the MEC bivy pad (about 6 oz. 5 mm evazote pad) and was comfy in a tent with two other persons using a 20 degree bag.

Hey Ryan I have only been packing for 5 years and I have a baseweight of 10. You're on a fast learning curve and you do give out some great knowledge. Keep it up. No need to aplogise my friend, you did nothing wrong. Bill must have just misunderstood you. It is easy to do when the communication medium is just written. By you writing your post it has got me to thinking about purchasing the Exped for my winter camping. Thanks.

Ryan F. I hope you read to the end of my post. If you did you should be able to tell that I am not upset. At my age I don't have enough time left to waste it on being upset. I can remember very clear back about 52 years ago when I was 13. My father made me a board pack frame at about that age. I got to help some. It was out of somekind of Boy Scout project book. It later got passed on to my brothers.

I thought it was really funny that even though the Stephenson's DAM also uses the stuff sack to blow it up, you didn't know that. Old Jack is still kicking and may even have invented the blow-up bag.

An I did warn you about the web site.

Got to go, one of my cats wants some attention, he is 19 years old.

Edited by bfornshell on 10/24/2005 19:04:24 MDT.

Kevin,

I hope that your friend's experience was an exception. I have not had the chance to use mine much at this point. But, assuming it works well without a problem, it is not decadent. Though I am vertically challenged at 5" 6" tall, my Stephenson's Warmlite DAM (70" long)weighs 20.2 oz and the stuff/pump sack weighs 2.8 oz. I put the whole package in a .5 oz #3 Granite Gear Stuff Sack.

Ken, take note this DAM is substantially lighter and should be warmer than the Exped pads. Additionally, I have not had a problem with the pump sack filling the DAM and it is supposed to work more easily than the Exped pump sack. Also, if there is a problem maintaining pressure with the Warmlite pump sack, it is recommended to seam seal the sack.

Rich

Edited by naturephoto1 on 10/24/2005 20:10:57 MDT.

I'm not convinced that the materials used in the DAM are rugged enough for for winter mtneering. Granted, the weight and the basic theory are very compelling for the insulation and comfort given(when working). The only thing more efficient as an insulator (if uncompressed) would be Aerogel---now that's something I would like to see entering the realm of outdoor equipment. But shell and shell seam durability questions in the mtneering applications I'd use it in make the DAM problematic. Plus my 1st hand experience of watching a grown man suffer, his sleepless, freezing nights, reduced to a quivering shell of the buff mountaineer, he once was, while using one. :-)>

I don't think that all Stephenson products are this fragile. I have nothing but good things to say about the tents.

For the record, in winter I used to use an UL Thermarest in conjunction with a 1/4" evazote pad. This winter I'll be using a Torso-lite and a GG Thinlight. The combo is quite a bit lighter than the DAM (if more bulky) and comfort and warmth levels will be adequate.

Edited by kdesign on 10/24/2005 22:38:56 MDT.