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Ryan Jordan's SUL Winter Challenge
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kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
Day of Infamy--put up or shut up :-)> on 11/23/2005 13:18:48 MST Print View

Dec. 7--a gearlist which will live in infamy.

I be kool wif dat.

R Alsborg
(FastWalker) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Why Not Stick A Spork In It And Say It's Done... on 11/23/2005 13:28:39 MST Print View

Oh Great another 2 weeks!

It's a good thing Ryanj didnt ask for our help in creating this website...

Edited by FastWalker on 11/23/2005 13:30:22 MST.

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
eine kleine masochism on 11/23/2005 13:37:54 MST Print View

Roger---I hate to say, Ryan asked for input to improve the site.

re.Another 2 weeks...
--- "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger"
Nietzsche

Edited by kdesign on 11/23/2005 13:40:17 MST.

Mark Larson
(mlarson) - MLife

Locale: Southeast USA
blue rondo a la turkey on 11/23/2005 13:54:47 MST Print View

12.7.05 sounds good, I've really enjoyed seeing y'all think out loud for the winter set-up. Lots of learning on my part. I still like a previous poster's suggestion that RyJ himself put up a list. Not necessarily now, but maybe sometime close to or soon after the deadline. Maybe he has a totally different take? Or maybe we'll have finalized a similar kit. We might get also some more tidbits about prototypes that way.......
-Mark

R Alsborg
(FastWalker) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Nietzsche?? on 11/23/2005 14:00:20 MST Print View

Thanks for making my point:

1. He didn’t ask our help in creating this web site… Only to improve it!
Big Difference My Friend.

2. Using a Quote from an Action Movie “Conan the Barbarian” "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" perhaps that’s what’s required here More Action….

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
Nietzsche--ja! on 11/23/2005 14:32:10 MST Print View

A joke, Roger, a joke

re. Conan---Mileus put a paraphrase of Nietzsche's words into the monosyllabic mouth of der future Governator. It's all pop-speak, now.

Edited by kdesign on 11/23/2005 14:35:00 MST.

Bob Gabbart
(bobg) - F
RE: G6 for WSUL on 11/23/2005 19:19:51 MST Print View

The G6 is such a cool little pack. It's actually got a good amount of space. I say we go with that unless RJ says he can't fit all the stuff in there.

Bob

Ryan Jordan
(ryan) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Greater Yellowstone
Winter SUL Challenge List on 11/23/2005 19:19:59 MST Print View

OK, Dec 7 is a good goal for the deadline. I assume that the last list published in the thread is the one that is now up for proposal and that is the one we are modifying between now and then?

When the list is decided, I will indeed take a look and modify it, but only if it results in weight savings. I won't add to it.

It's looking good so far...definitely like...a challenge...!

Ryan Jordan
(ryan) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Greater Yellowstone
SUL Winter Challenge Gear List Suggestions on 11/23/2005 19:24:41 MST Print View

OK, here are some comments on the current list.

01.50 Outdoor Research PowerStretch Balaclava
03.00 Nike Spandex Running Short Tights

I will probably replace the spandex shorts with smartwool microweight boxers. It's nice to have the warmth in the winter. The primary benefit of the spandex is anti-chafing, which is not going to be problem at these temperatures.

We could probably skip the powerstretch bala since we have the down one, and replace it with a beanie cap.

More later...

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
? for Ryan J--Winter SUL Challenge List on 11/23/2005 20:05:17 MST Print View

By last list are you referring to BobG's or Ryan Faulkner's ? Bob's has your prototype Belay Jacket and a liquid gas stove ( currently) and is under 6 #. I would say that there has been more interest in modifying that list. Ryan F's has the Bill (tm) wood stove to bring the base weight to under 5 and goes for the Cocoon pullover and the Nunatak balaclava you allude to.

Happy T ---I'm off to the high country.

Edited by kdesign on 11/23/2005 20:10:55 MST.

Michael Martin
(MikeMartin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: North Idaho
Stove Compromise on 11/23/2005 21:05:57 MST Print View

Hi Guys-

It seems like we've got people entrenched in several camps with the stove issue:

RyanF really wants Fire, and I can understand this as I have a 10 year old son who will hike all day just for the chance to build a campfire that night. :-)

Others are either in the Simmerlite, Xtreme, or (still?) in the upright canister camp.

What I propose is a stripped Xtreme stove like Bill F and company are building on a related MYOG thread. This should end up being in the 8oz range (or less if Bill really comes up with something fantastic). But, I propose limiting Ryan to a single 300g Powermax Canister (weight 400g full), giving a total stove+can+fuel weight of around 22oz. This should provide enough fuel to boil around 9L from snow, and give him the capability to make heat at 2am in a snowcave if necessary. But, he'll have to use some fuel conservation strategies and hopefully build some cook fires to supplement his fuel. Maybe Ryan F could suggest a SUL firestarting kit....

Cheers,

-Mike

Edited by MikeMartin on 11/23/2005 22:16:38 MST.

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
re. Stove Compromise on 11/23/2005 22:20:42 MST Print View

Sigh --I had to look one more time before I skidaddled. Hah!---Mike , I too, have a ten year old-- except he's a techno-weenie. He loves all the different stoves dad might spring on the family at mealtime.

Personally, I'm most intrigued by a modified Xtreme as opposed to an upright canister or a white gas stove. I have enough wood craft to do a cookfire in Winter and I know Dr. Ryan does so there will be no revelations for me in that quarter. I think you offer a reasonable compromise ( and I salute you) but let me throw out a few more ideas--

I would counter-propose one of the following( and this assumes that a modified Xtreme is practical to get into Ryan's hands):
1.) that if Ryan's route should take him into the woods that could be fire time but that he be basically self-contained to handle most of the melting and cooking using the Xtreme.
2.) We could estimate on the lean side what Powermax fuel he would need and if he ran out he would have the option to retreat to timberline to do woodfires.This would be the "maybe a fire" option--a softer version of what you are proposing.
3.) Or, he would be fully self contained
but could do a cookfire (&/ or a snowmelting fire) for journalistic compare and contrast purposes. Perhaps this would be not on the actual trip, itself. The latter option could include a woodfire stove--perhaps one of Bill's designs.

It would be nice if everyone could be happy about the final gearlist and trip parameters.

R Alsborg
(FastWalker) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
WSUL Kum Bi Yah! on 11/23/2005 23:24:27 MST Print View

It would be nice if everyone could be happy about the final gearlist and trip parameters.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Stove Compromise on 11/26/2005 15:53:53 MST Print View

> But, I propose limiting Ryan to a single 300g Powermax Canister (weight 400g full),

Look guys, this is one man and two nights, right?
I would reckon he should be able to take a 170 g canister and bring a fair amount of fuel back. I run under 50 g per day for TWO people in the snow. But that assumes a lid on the pot and a close windshield around the stove/pot, and running the stove at a medium to low setting. That still works fast enough, but is twice as efficient on fuel.
Cheers

Michael Martin
(MikeMartin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: North Idaho
Re: Re: Stove Compromise on 11/26/2005 17:32:06 MST Print View

Roger writes:

>> Look guys, this is one man and two nights, right?

Did we ever nail the trip length down to two nights? I thought three nights were kicked around at one point. Too many posts on this thread to keep track....

>> I would reckon he should be able to take a 170 g canister and bring a fair amount of fuel back. I run under 50 g per day for TWO people in the snow.

Roger, I saw your impressive fuel consumption figures on your previous post. But, I based my 9L snow-to-boil per 300g canister numbers on Ryan's recent snowmelt test, with a 5% safety margin.

Cheers,

-Mike

Edited by MikeMartin on 11/26/2005 18:14:48 MST.

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
WSUL Kumm blah blah & Xtreme fuel on 11/27/2005 15:18:04 MST Print View

Perhaps I should have said--"It would be bloody well nice if everyone could be happy about the final gearlist and trip parameters, or else". Alsborg gets a lump of coal in his Xmas SUL stocking. ;-P>

Roger Caffin, interesting about your fantastic fuel efficiency with the Xtreme. Were you able to maintain it while melting quantities of snow? A liter or 2 of water made in a reasonable amount of time?
I, too was assuming Ryan's test figures when assuming fuel quantity amounts.

Michael-- I believe that the trip was going to be 2 nights and 3 days as per a much earlier R. Jordan pronuncimiento ( but this should be checked out) . One large Powermax cartridge would suffice in the event ( without recourse to fires). Assuming, of course, that the Xtreme stove route is taken.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
FINAL LIST on 11/27/2005 16:02:42 MST Print View

Finally, please agree on something.
I give up on sub 5 and wood stoves so here is my list. any problems? if there are tell me and I will modify THIS list without comentary, I hope this to end up being the final gearlist after your input. I promise not to argue, and just change the list. I just want to see a final decision made.

Clothing
10.00 RBH Designs Proto VB Jacket
05.00 Warmlite VB pants
03.00 golite mesh cap worn under..
03.00 Nunatak down balaclava
08.00 Golite endurance
08.50 patgonia MW zip T
04.00 Bozeman Mountain Works FeatherLite Vapor Mitts
01.10 PossumDown Gloves



Footwear
02.00 Smartwool Lightweight Wool Liner Socks
03.00 RBH Designs Vapor-Thrm Fleece Socks
24.00 Montrail Susitna II XCR Trail Running Shoes
16.00 Forty Below Custom 2mm Neoprene Overboots
35.00 Northern Lites Elites Snowshoes

Other Items Worn / Carried
00.30 GG Sunglasses
01.00 Fox 40 Mini Whistle, AirCode Plus lanyard
01.30 Suunto X6
05.40 Stix Pro Carbon Fiber Trekking Poles
00.25 Photon Freedom Micro LED Light (Backup light)on aircore 1 spectra cord

130.85 ounces
Total worn or carried 8.18 pounds


Shelter/Sleep/Extra Clothing
00.00 Snow Cave
16.00 Arc X Quilt
04.00 Vapor NANO Bivy
03.00 PAC outdoor uberlight micro
01.90 Gossamer Gear thinLight 1/8" cut in half and doubled under legs
05.30 Gossamer Gear 3/4 length ThinLight 3/8
05.75 SnowClaw Backcountry Snow Shovel
08.50 Cocoon Jacket
06.50 Quantum down knickers
01.50 Smartwool Lightweight Wool Liner Socks


Pack
03.70 Gossamer Gear G6

Cook/Hydration
02.45 Trangia 1 L. SaucePan
00.20 Foil lid
00.40 Backpacking Light Titanium Mini-Spork
00.30 Box of wooden matches in Ziploc
02.80 Nalgene Wide-Mouth Cantene 3 L
08.00 coleman Xtreme stove stripped
03.50 coleman powermax fuel cartrige empty

Essentials
02.80 petzel tikkia plus
01.00 Blister & minor would care supplies
00.50 TP: 4"x4" blue shop towel squares - 1 / day
00.50 Alcohol hand gel in small bottle
01.00 Candle
00.27 Bozeman Mountain Works SpinSack LITE Ultralight Stuff Sack (Size S)

79.8 ounces
Total Packed 4.99 pounds

with this list, I am not at all afraid for the safety of Ryan. this weekend, I was up in WV and under a tarp I slept in a 45 degree hoodless bag in 15degree storm dropping almost a foot of snow on me, my clothing was far less warm than Ryans list so in his arc he will be warm. and you may be freaking out about the pad system I gave him, but all I used was 3 torso pads, one under my legs and the other under my torso, they were both 3/8" and I stayed warm all night. so I think Ryans 1/2" combo will keep him comforatable.

for more info on my clothing system, look HERE

Edited by ryanf on 11/28/2005 19:05:35 MST.

Bob Gabbart
(bobg) - F
no pants for Ryan on 11/27/2005 16:50:56 MST Print View

Ryan,

You got RJ going out there without any pants. The ArcTeryx Gamma MX are pants. There wasn't a softshell jacket on the list ;)

Bob

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: no pants for Ryan on 11/27/2005 17:27:29 MST Print View

oops.
I saw the gama jacket on the arcteryx site and thougt this was what it was.
what about using the VB pants?

it looses some carried weight

what are we looking for. the dancing light gear Gram Weenie Silnylon Rain / Vapor Barrier Pants are only 2.5 oz

I think the VB and down knickers will be enough warmth

for now I will leave the met 5 and move the VB pants to worn.

Edited by ryanf on 11/27/2005 17:33:12 MST.

Michael Martin
(MikeMartin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: North Idaho
re:nights out, final gear list, etc. on 11/27/2005 17:38:33 MST Print View

Ok, I found it on page 1 of this thread...

Kevin writes:

>>> How many days out?

Ryan J replies:

>> Let's plan for 3. Short enough to represent the typical weekend getaway but more than an overnight so you have to think a little harder about keeping your gear dry etc.

Subsequent posts have assumed this meant 2 nights rather than 3. I'll buy it. Kevin also mentioned on a previous post that the moisture accumulation risk is minimal for a two night trip. I agree. (Without a moisture accumulation hazard, I *would* suggest we ditch the Gamma MX and VB pants for a lighter ID eVent pants over midweight C-thru or merino combo, but I don't want to prolong the agony.)

Ryan F -- take a look back at Ryan J's post on 11/23/2005 19:24:41 MST. He suggests ditching the balaclava and shorts for a beanie and some wool boxers.

I renew my vote for the stripped Xtreme stove setup. It's lighter than a Simmerlite, doesn't flare up when started, and Ryan J. himself said "I'm in!" on the related MYOG thread.

Cheers,

-Mike

Edited by MikeMartin on 11/27/2005 17:40:10 MST.