Ryan Jordan's SUL Winter Challenge
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Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Ryan's Winter Challenge on 11/19/2005 18:26:54 MST Print View

John, I think someone was updating the list on page one each time something changed or was added.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Ryan's Winter Challenge on 11/19/2005 18:43:00 MST Print View

just so anyone interested knows, I posted a new thread on Wood Stoves

R K
(oiboyroi) - M

Locale: South West US
Sierra zip stove on 11/19/2005 22:30:09 MST Print View

I found recently found this stove online and think it could be a possibility for Dr. Jordan to use. It burns wood and works by preheating the air blown in to the fuel, much like a blacksmiths forge. It claims that it will burn wet wood and puts out 18,000 BTU/hr. Seems like a good compromise between a gas stove and a hobo stove. The titanium model weighs 10 oz.

Here's a link. ZZ Manufacturing, Inc.

Roy

Edited by oiboyroi on 11/19/2005 22:31:05 MST.

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
re.Sierra zip stove on 11/21/2005 21:25:51 MST Print View

Although I have known people to use Zip Stoves on Winter trips involving fairly mild tempuratures and
readily found wood ( supplemented with carried pieces of "treated" wood)---I've never have heard anyone using one in the conditions that RJ is likely to encounter (blizzards willing). One would have to use Lithium batteries, of course, in lower temps.

My own experiences with the Zip involve going on trips with someone who was a "Ziphead". My observation is they seem very fussy (quality of fuel issues) and the battery powered fan always seemed to have wiring problems (although field fixable).
I certainly would not use this or any other wood-fired stove in a tent, small tarp or snow cave-- which is something I like to have the option of doing with my cooking systems, if stormbound--an issue that Ryan conceivably could face.

Edited by kdesign on 11/21/2005 21:28:17 MST.

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
Winter Warrior SUL Gear List on 11/21/2005 21:35:21 MST Print View

John Shannon ---have you gone through all the pages yet and updated your list?

Myself--I'm feeling a little deterred by the quantity of posts on this thread.

Edited by kdesign on 11/21/2005 21:36:25 MST.

Bob Gabbart
(bobg) - F
Updated SUL list on 11/22/2005 08:12:31 MST Print View

Here is an updated SUL winter list. It includes the VB clothing. I've switched back to the Cocoon Pullover but added a Possumdown Hat. It has the EOS and the simmerlite. No windscreen - he can dig a hole. It also has the 1/4" mat to put under his feet on top of the 3/8" Thinlight (I calculated the weight based on the dimentions, and it is sized to cover the Thinlight from the bottom of the Torsolight to the end of the Thinlight. I've restored the Thinlight and the Torsolight back to their full sizes - non cut.

Clothing
10.00 RBH Designs Proto VB Jacket
01.50 Outdoor Research PowerStretch Balaclava
03.00 Nike Spandex Running Short Tights
18.00 Arc'Teryx Gamma MX
04.00 Bozeman Mountain Works FeatherLite Vapor Mitts
01.10 PossumDown Gloves

Footwear
02.00 Smartwool Lightweight Wool Liner Socks
03.00 RBH Designs Vapor-Thrm Fleece Socks
24.00 Montrail Susitna II XCR Trail Running Shoes
16.00 Forty Below Custom 2mm Neoprene Overboots
35.00 Northern Lites Elites Snowshoes

Other Items Worn / Carried
00.50 Sunglasses
01.00 Fox 40 Mini Whistle, AirCode Plus lanyard
01.30 Suunto X6
05.40 Stix Pro Carbon Fiber Trekking Poles
125.8 ounces
Total worn or carried 7.86 pounds


Shelter/Sleep/Extra Clothing
00.00 Snow Cave
16.00 Arc X Quilt
04.00 Vapor NANO Bivy
03.70 Gossamer Gear NightLight Torso
05.30 Gossamer Gear 3/4 length ThinLight 3/8" glued to…
01.70 Oware 1/4" Foam Pad (cut to 19.5 W x 30 L)
05.75 SnowClaw Backcountry Snow Shovel
05.00 VB Pants
09.00 BMW Cocoon Pullover
01.85 Possum Down Beanie Hat
01.50 Smartwool Lightweight Wool Liner Socks

Pack
03.70 Gossamer Gear G6

Cook/Hydration
02.45 Trangia 1 L. SaucePan
00.20 Foil lid
00.40 Backpacking Light Titanium Mini-Spork
00.30 Box of wooden matches in Ziploc
02.80 Nalgene Wide-Mouth Cantene 3 L
08.50 MSR SimmerLite
03.50 MSR Titan Fule Bottles 0.6L

Essentials
03.56 Princeton Tec EOS
01.00 Blister & minor would care supplies
00.50 TP: 4"x4" blue shop towel squares - 1 / day
00.50 Alcohol hand gel in small bottle
00.50 Small stuff sack to organize essentials

81.71 ounces
Total Packed 5.11 pounds

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Ryan's Winter Challenge on 11/22/2005 08:35:42 MST Print View

Bob, Do I assume that this is your winter gear list? If so you might want to add the size of the items and if you have the item or would like to have the item. That way I/we can tell if the weight would be the same for something I/we might like to also have. If you have the item and anyone had a question about the product I/we could ask about it.

Thanks.

R Alsborg
(FastWalker) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Re: Updated SUL list on 11/22/2005 09:41:57 MST Print View

Bobg,

Excellent Gear List!

You can tell much thought has been put into formulating this list not only by the combined total weight but by the items you decided to include and the quality of the gear.

FastWalker

Bob Gabbart
(bobg) - F
Ryan's winter challenge - Bill on 11/22/2005 10:04:46 MST Print View

Bill,

This isn't my list. I wouldn't go out in the winter with this! ;) This is basically a reorganization of the previous lists posted on this thread with some suggested changes. But everything here has been posted before in some way or another. All the weights are from previous posts.

Bob

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Bob's list update on 11/22/2005 10:41:04 MST Print View

Thanks Bob.

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
Winter SUL list on 11/22/2005 11:45:03 MST Print View

Good compilation, Bob
Obviously , we have a ways to go.

R Alsborg
(FastWalker) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Re: Winter SUL list on 11/22/2005 11:54:23 MST Print View

1 Month and 16 pages of postings and "we have a ways to go?" whats left to add to Bobs List??

At this rate Summer will be here before Ryans feet touch snow...

Bob Gabbart
(bobg) - F
SUL Winter List: What's left? on 11/22/2005 12:30:54 MST Print View

I second Roger's motion and bring to the floor a motion to vote on finalizing the list. All in favor say Yah ;)

Bob

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: SUL Winter List: What's left? on 11/22/2005 13:01:35 MST Print View

Good looking list but not quite SUL.
we need to loose that .11oz.

what about Bills 1.2oz wood stove?

Bob Gabbart
(bobg) - F
not quite SUL ... doh on 11/22/2005 13:26:19 MST Print View

The easiest way to drop some weight off that list would be to change the handlamp to something smaller if Ryan feel comfortable using a lower power light in the winter.

Or we could just live with the extra .11 oz?

Edited by bobg on 11/22/2005 13:27:22 MST.

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
re. SUL Winter List: What's left? on 11/22/2005 15:21:20 MST Print View

Bob---before we are quite so rash
Headgear for warmth is completely inadequate---I would rather go a few oz. over 5# in use the prototype insulated eVent jacket that Ryan sprang on us for both the hood , another moisture/wind barrier and superior warmth to the Cocoon Pullover.
I also would seriously consider inclusion of a pair of Cocoon pants.

I think I personally would be comfortable w/ the rest of the list. Eos headlamp--I would keep w/ Photon for backup. It would be nice to give Ryan a modified Xtreme Stove but time might not allow?

Candle for the Snow Cave is essential and we don't have a sun hat.

Edited by kdesign on 11/22/2005 15:22:55 MST.


(Anonymous)
Re: re. SUL Winter List: What's left? on 11/22/2005 15:25:49 MST Print View

Kevin said "I would rather go a few oz. over 5#"

I would too, but Ryan has to go under 5lbs for this trip.

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
Gear List weight assumptions on 11/22/2005 15:56:30 MST Print View

Please read ALL the postings on this thread, Anonymous-- and please get a name while you're at it--since you choose to use mine. It is your assumption that this gearlist has to be sub-5#. Do you have something to offer that is more germane to the topic at hand? Perhaps a sub 5# list and a rationale behind it?

As Ryan Jordan stated or implied--perhaps what constitutes Winter SUL should be examined--perhaps it isn't sub -5. Perhaps Full Skin Out weight is far more important. In fact Dr. Jordan seemed to feel that base weights are perhaps questionable,in and of themselves. It's so easy to "pad" base weight figures by "wearing" more, for example.

Edited by kdesign on 11/22/2005 15:59:04 MST.

Bob Gabbart
(bobg) - F
Winter SUL = 6# on 11/22/2005 16:17:00 MST Print View

I think everyone would agree that typical Winter weight is heavier that typical 3 season weight. So lets decide that Winter SUL = 6#. That being said, Kevin, I've made all the changes you suggested: Added back belay jacket, added cocoon pants, added micro led as backup, removed wool hat (because now we have insulated hood), added sun cap, added candle. We are still under 6#. Here it is:

Clothing
10.00 RBH Designs Proto VB Jacket
01.50 Outdoor Research PowerStretch Balaclava
03.50 Go Lite Mesh Cap (Sun hat)
03.00 Nike Spandex Running Short Tights
18.00 Arc'Teryx Gamma MX
04.00 Bozeman Mountain Works FeatherLite Vapor Mitts
01.10 PossumDown Gloves

Footwear
02.00 Smartwool Lightweight Wool Liner Socks
03.00 RBH Designs Vapor-Thrm Fleece Socks
24.00 Montrail Susitna II XCR Trail Running Shoes
16.00 Forty Below Custom 2mm Neoprene Overboots
35.00 Northern Lites Elites Snowshoes

Other Items Worn / Carried
00.50 Sunglasses
01.00 Fox 40 Mini Whistle, AirCode Plus lanyard
01.30 Suunto X6
05.40 Stix Pro Carbon Fiber Trekking Poles

129.3 ounces
Total worn or carried 8.08 pounds


Shelter/Sleep/Extra Clothing
00.00 Snow Cave
16.00 Arc X Quilt
04.00 Vapor NANO Bivy
03.70 Gossamer Gear NightLight Torso
05.30 Gossamer Gear 3/4 length ThinLight 3/8" glued to…
01.70 Oware 1/4" Foam Pad (cut to 19.5 W x 30 L)
05.75 SnowClaw Backcountry Snow Shovel
05.00 VB Pants
14.00 BMW Prototype eVENT Cocoon Belay Jacket
07.50 BMW Cocoon Pants
01.50 Smartwool Lightweight Wool Liner Socks

Pack
03.70 Gossamer Gear G6

Cook/Hydration
02.45 Trangia 1 L. SaucePan
00.20 Foil lid
00.40 Backpacking Light Titanium Mini-Spork
00.30 Box of wooden matches in Ziploc
02.80 Nalgene Wide-Mouth Cantene 3 L
08.50 MSR SimmerLite
03.50 MSR Titan Fule Bottles 0.6L

Essentials
03.56 Princeton Tec EOS
00.22 Photon Freedom Micro LED Light (Backup light)
01.00 Blister & minor would care supplies
00.50 TP: 4"x4" blue shop towel squares - 1 / day
00.50 Alcohol hand gel in small bottle
01.00 Candle
00.50 Small stuff sack to organize essentials

93.58 ounces
Total Packed 5.85 pounds


So shall we vote now? All in favor ...

Edited by bobg on 11/22/2005 16:18:06 MST.

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
Cocoon belay Jacket info and my Vote on 11/22/2005 16:21:00 MST Print View

Reminder of an Insulated Jacket that would be available for this Winter experiment and I quote Mr. Jordan--
"... the Cocoon Belay Jacket prototype... has an insulated hood, the hood is insulated, the insulation throughout is the same as the Cocoon pullover, quantum lining, eVENT shell...ho ho ho!!!! That'll shake it up. it's 14 oz.".

Great job, Bob . A minor point--- wool liner sox (in the extra clothing section) won't work well under VB sox or as part of the sleeping system which would also use the VB sox. I feel an extra pair of sox would still be useful ( if just for emergencies) but perhaps something quick drying (capilene sox?).

Finally, one more caveat---are the packables going to fit in a G6? With food and water, this is going to push the 15 # reccommended weight capacity(especially when shlepping the snowshoes, which he might) and the load is fairly bulky as well.

Edited by kdesign on 11/22/2005 20:22:38 MST.