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Ryan Jordan's SUL Winter Challenge
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paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Movie silliness on 11/16/2005 15:23:32 MST Print View

apparently, based upon Kevin Davidson's reply, KD seems like it could have been intended to mean Kevin Davidson. VH? probably Vick Hines. both of these guys can be quite humorous, hence i would imagine the reason for Anon's guesses.

Jay Ham
(jham) - F - M

Locale: Southwest
stoves on 11/16/2005 16:11:08 MST Print View

Although Ryan will do fine gnawing on a frozen powerbar 3 meals a day, another option for cooking might be a hobo stove. It will have to be fasioned SUL style using a sheet of aluminum or titanium and pop-rivets. I UL backpacked in the '90s using one made from a #10 tin can. They work suprisingly well, though a bit sooty. Not sure if it will melt snow though...

Jay
BPL

Tim Garner
(slowhike) - F

Locale: South East U.S.
gluing pads on 11/16/2005 18:46:19 MST Print View

share if you will, about your expereance gluing pads together & how well they stayed together over time/cold. would you use the same type glue for all CCF pads (& paticularly the gossemer gear thinlight)? also, i wonder if a layer of fleece could be glued to the thinlight for moister control? thanks...slowhike

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: stoves on 11/17/2005 01:05:32 MST Print View

Jay,

i have two "hobo" stoves that i made (the extreme limits of my stove making skills). one is made fr/a 1lb coffee can (now typically an 11.5oz coffee can) and the other made from a Progresso soup can. with a good portion of the metal removed from the sides near the bottom and the side just under the top "ring, you'd be surprised how light they turn out to be.

i use a drill to drill holes, & a Dremel to cut out larger rectangles of metal and to grind the edges of the holes and cut-out areas smooth.

Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
Hobo stoves are great on 11/17/2005 07:20:32 MST Print View

Work very well, esepcially if you build a raised 'floor' into them.

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Hobo stoves are great on 11/17/2005 07:35:47 MST Print View

Joshua,

speak to me of "raised floor"s, please. many thanks.

Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
Raised Floor on 11/17/2005 13:36:20 MST Print View

Whether or not you make a true wood gas stove, putting in a raised floor, helps let the ashes drop out and air get in.

This is the single BEST modifcation to a normal hobo stove (IMO). Also, it helps in lighting as you can put tinder underneath the 'floor' and let it burn freely.

Note: the floor can be wirecloth like the one risk shows. It can be the 'top' of the tincan with a bunch of holes punched in it... also, insteat of cutting 'flaps' and bending them up like risk does, you can poke holes and make the floor self-supporing (corners of wirecloth bent down). All the methods work.

eidt: all of the commerical hobo-stove (trailstove, firespout, etc) as well as the nimblewill stove (see pattern on thru-hiker.com or zenstoves) utlizie raised floors.

Edited by jdmitch on 11/17/2005 13:56:54 MST.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Ryan's Winter Challenge-Stoves on 11/17/2005 13:46:36 MST Print View

Take a look at the picture of my wood stove. It is on this thread someplace and then if you want more detail let me know.

Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
Here's the Stove Bill Mentioned on 11/17/2005 14:02:36 MST Print View

Link to the picture (at least I think it's the one)

I plan on emulating his vortex wood stove design at some point.

Edited by jdmitch on 11/17/2005 14:03:25 MST.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Ryan's Winter Challenge-Stoves on 11/17/2005 14:06:17 MST Print View

The link is to the one. I will post some more pictures of the wood stove on the Make Gear Forum later tonight.

Edited by bfornshell on 11/17/2005 14:07:10 MST.

Jay Ham
(jham) - F - M

Locale: Southwest
hobo stoves on 11/18/2005 07:40:35 MST Print View

Bill, Nice design. I think we could use pop-rivets to attach the wire mesh to the inside of the cylinder thereby eliminating the bit of mesh used to raise the grate. I lighter grate material would be nice if we could find it. Of course, the "can" ought to be made of aluminum, pop-riveted along the seam (or titanium) to shed weight.

Anyone have experience using a hobo to melt snow. We've got to feed AND water Ryan, right? I melt snow (down into the 20s at least) using my alcohol stove. Never tested a hobo that cold.

Jay

Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
SS sheet probably better than Aluminum on 11/18/2005 10:47:06 MST Print View

When I was in boyscouts, we used to melt soda cans in woodfires... hobo stove wood fires can get much hotter because of the chimney affect...

My theory (uproven as I don't particularly want to try it) is that aluminum will likely melt (and certainly would require a seperate stove stand) SS or Brass sheeting (or a simply steel vegetable can) would be a far better option... it would last longer and the stand would be integral saving weight.

now, an tall aluminum windscreen (or Ti)might be in order as well (or as an option). However, wind blockage isn't as much of an issue when you have unlimited fuel (of course a windscreen will give you a place to dry out some twigs.

I agree with the permanently attached grating idea, though.

if wood will burn at a given temp than a hobo stove will work fine at that same temp - so, yeah it'll work to melt snow.

Edited by jdmitch on 11/18/2005 10:49:56 MST.

John Taylor
(jtaylor) - F

Locale: Shenandoah
Why use a backpack at all? on 11/18/2005 11:10:07 MST Print View

With a base load of sub 5lb, why waste the weight on a pack at all?

Is there a piece of gear flexible enough to contain and carry what gear and supplies Ryan will have with him? Shelter, sleeping bag, drum liner bag, or something similiar? How about it, any ideas?

Edited by jtaylor on 11/18/2005 11:10:40 MST.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Wood Stove(s) on 11/18/2005 11:36:11 MST Print View

Hi Jay:
I have another Wood Stove started and on this one I put a few small holes in the side of the can and put the end wires of the (SS mesh) grate through the holes and bend them over. The weight of the SS mesh went from 21.2gr to 11.2gr. This is maybe lighter than a few pop rivets and will let you remove/replace the grate if you need to. A lighter grate would be nice but I am not sure what would be strong enough to take the temperature of the fire.

I have another wood stove made out of Aluminum cans but it is a little smaller diameter.

Aluminum Can Wood Stove w/grate:
3" lid opening by 4.5" tall - weight 28gr/1oz
vs
Steel Can Wood Stove w/grate:
3-3/8" lid opening by 4.25" tall - weight 85gr/3oz

I think if you are going to go with a wood stove you will need a good match between the stove diameter and pot diameter. Both of my wood stoves still need a pot stand. My pot stands are very light and made for the cook pot to be used.

PS. For Joshua, I will burn some wood in the Aluminum Can Stove and see how it holds up. I like the size of the Steel can and it only weighs 3oz.

Edited by bfornshell on 11/18/2005 12:06:01 MST.

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: Wood Stove(s) on 11/18/2005 13:04:48 MST Print View

Uh...

mabey you guys should start another thread on wood stoves, I am very interested in making one myself, and I am all for cooking with wood fuel, but Ryan J. dosent need the extra weight of a stove for this trip. just cook over the fire.

Jay Ham
(jham) - F - M

Locale: Southwest
reply to Ryan Faulkner on 11/19/2005 06:18:11 MST Print View

I agree with part of your post. Perhaps we should take the design aspect of a wood stove to another forum. However, I think a wood stove should still be a consideration for Ryan Jordan's trip. If Ryan will be at or above tree line (as stated in his first post), he will have a difficult time (I think) finding enough fuel to build a fire hot enough to melt snow; especially when ground vegetation will be buried in it. Wood stoves require much less fuel for a given heat output over open fires, hence the thinking behind all this.

The big question is: can we get the weight low enough?

Jay

Ryan Faulkner
(ryanf) - F

Locale: Mid atlantic, No. Cal
Re: reply to Ryan Faulkner on 11/19/2005 08:36:44 MST Print View

thanks Jay,

Now I see why no one is considering fire cooking, I am used to an abundance of wood and trees, tanks for explaining.

My vote now is for a wood stove

I am right now working on a wood stove, if it is light enough, I will post some info

Edited by ryanf on 11/19/2005 12:30:26 MST.

Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
Re: Ryan Jordan's SUL Winter Challenge on 11/19/2005 15:29:35 MST Print View

Hey there hasn't been an update on the gear for Ryan for 10 days now.
If we don't carry on we are still giong to be discusing what stove Ryan is going to bring while he has already started his trip.

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
lack of action-- Winter SUL on 11/19/2005 15:40:56 MST Print View

So, say something, Aaron. There's any number of posts on this thread that have been left hanging, on
topics like--
insulation pad systems
stove/cookware systems
packs
clothing layer approaches ( although VB clothing will probably be a component)

I think the only done deals are footwear, sleeping/shelter system (less pads) and mode of transportation.

I would love to see someone else modify the extant gear lists or even come up with a brand spankin' new one.

Edited by kdesign on 11/19/2005 15:44:17 MST.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: Re: Ryan Jordan's SUL Winter Challenge on 11/19/2005 17:41:34 MST Print View

After they bolted from the sub 5 rule, I got all depressed because I racked my brain to go sub 5. Now I am on medication for it ; ).

All nonsense aside, I need to upgrade my version I guess. I didn't remember what sleep system everybody finally decided on. Guess I'll have to go back through 15 pages to find it..yikes.