Ray Jardine closes shop
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kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
concerning anonymous on 10/19/2005 17:11:13 MDT Print View

I agree with Mr./Ms./whatever Anon's general take on Ray J. ( was actually a pretty good assessment of the whole Jardine phenomena)--- except for one bloody thing.

It's bloody bush league to talk about other people without identifying themselves. Especially when talking down people. Down right cowardly, as a matter of fact.

The whole BPL anonymous option has become disgustingly abused---it should be terminated with extreme prejudice. It never really got used as a means for industry insiders to give the scoop on equipment (mis)developments.

If people feel they can't reveal themselves--- give the option for creating avatars.

If anyone (including anonymous) wants to discuss or take me on about this----we can move to "chaff".

Edited by kdesign on 10/19/2005 18:52:38 MDT.

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Jardine on 10/19/2005 20:05:04 MDT Print View

Who cares. He acts like an ultralight prophet and everyone is giving him and others way too much credit. What about Hike your own hike. People do your own thing. Whatever works for you, do it.

larry savage
(pyeyo) - F

Locale: pacific northwest
Re: concerning anonymous on 10/19/2005 20:28:41 MDT Print View

I can name a half dozen bb's that have come up against this anonymous posting problem, Fine Homebuilding's bb just completely revamped itself password on down, requiring an additional request of the syop to log into their opinion/political section.
We are all charachters, from Ray all the way across the board, complete with foibles and tics. There is a bb for ultra light bicycles called weight weenies but ya know you could make a bike out of cheese but you couldn't ride it, and that's the feeling you get nice but sorta useless.
Here everyones making the attempt, everyones using this stuff and I like that.
I believe all anonymous posters with strong opinions can go straight to www.howmuchdumba**stuffcanyoucarry.com

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
jardine on 10/19/2005 20:40:15 MDT Print View

agreed on the anonymous. especially when others are being treated rude. faceless posts are rather cowardice.

archeopteryx .
(archeopteryx2) - F
Partial anonymity is useful on 10/19/2005 21:31:12 MDT Print View

I think many anonymous posters are paid subscribers using the option soely to avoid having their full name (as verified by a credit card company) appearing directly to the left of the post. For these people, I would suggest making a free account like I have for use when posting on the forums. You can associate it with the handle you use on other backpacking forums so that your on-line personality is still easily identifiable.

If knowing a poster's full name as it appears on their credit card is a vital aspect of the BPL forums, I would much prefer if only registered BPL forum users could see it, and that it be placed on a separate "profile" page as is done by many other forums. Currently, a Google search on my full name returns all the BPL posts I made with my subscriber account.

Now try typing "Bill Fornshell" cancer into Google. A BPL post is the first hit. If that were my name I would be afraid of future employers using that as a reason not to hire me. (Disclaimer: yes this is illegal, but I don't think it would be worth fighting in court. Also, I mean no disrespect to Bill. I have learned a lot from your designs, but I just can't imagine myself giving that level of public disclosure.)

Edited by archeopteryx2 on 10/19/2005 21:34:30 MDT.

gdinero senior
(gmoney) - F
Re: Partial anonymity is useful on 10/19/2005 22:21:43 MDT Print View

I agree. I've been posting as anonymous using "G$" as my signoff, but now I'll just use this account for forum use.

J R
(RavenUL) - F
Re: Partial anonymity is useful on 10/19/2005 22:27:38 MDT Print View

This forum is shockingly free of "trolling". Maybe its just the size of the community.. I dunno... but historically, forums that allow for purely anonymous posting run rampant with trolls, while forums that have a "real name rule" tend to be much more civil, honest, and forthright. Though there is no need to make that info public, I do agree that using the real name, as verified by credit cards, as your "user name", can be offputting. However... even in forums where you can use ONLY a "handle", you can still follow who says what. Granted, the truely dedicated can just make a 2nd account, but on the whole, user nicks allow for people to be held accountable, without posts or viewpoints being attached to a legal name.

As it sits now, you basically have 2 groups. Those who have their names posted, and those who post "anonymously".. And that person can be 1, or a dozen, or 100 different people. And thats a problem in my book. Its not even a way to be anonymous, its a way to post things without being called to task on it in anyway. For that matter, I could sit and argue with myself on a thread and no one would be the wiser. Its not private, its cowardly.

On the issue of Google... try googling yourself. Doing a search for my name resulted in over 10 pages before I found a passing reference to me, rather than the hundreds of people who share my name. Over 15 before I found something written by me... and it wasnt on BPL. Putting it in quote marks and its still 7 pages til I show up.

My recommendation would be to update the forum software - significantly. There are tens, if not hundreds, of software apps that work better (or, at least allow for easy hyperlinking, user profiles, whatever), are more secure, and with a little skill in coding, can be worked into the existing code. phpBB, yaBB, invisionboard, vB... and thats just off the top of my head.

As for the original topic, I got no beef with Ray. He has his quirks... everyone does.


(Anonymous)
more cowardly anonymous rudeness on 10/19/2005 22:40:57 MDT Print View

I guess I was under the mistaken assumption that everyone is as fascinated by the ins and outs of Ray Jardine's life as me, in which case everyone would know the sort of guy Ray is--namely, a guy who deserves every bit of rudeness thrown at him. But since that appears not to be the case, here's the story of the Golite controvery, by the people concerned:

PDF file, details of the controvery

Boring corporate- speak description of the Golite controversy

And no, I don't work for Golite.

If you do a google search, you'll also find out about Ray's run-ins in the past with ALDHA, an organization he founded and then tried to destroy because people wouldn't agree with all his opinions. And you'll also learn about the various times he threatened lawsuits because people were joking on forums about his corn pasta and umbrella ideas. The rationale for these lawsuits was that the joking was hurting sales of Beyond Backpacking by making Ray look like a jerk. Of course, in most people's books, a guy who threatens a lawsuit is a helluva lot more of a jerk than a guy who likes corn pasta, but then nobody ever said Ray thinks like everyone else!

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
boring cowardly anonymous rudeness on 10/19/2005 22:55:31 MDT Print View

V is for vendetta. This is all very old news---tell us something we don't already know.

J R
(RavenUL) - F
Re: more cowardly anonymous rudeness on 10/19/2005 22:59:17 MDT Print View

The GoLite thing is GoLites business.

Since your so oddly drawn to the "ins and outs" of the mans life, could you please provide some links to the things you cited? Id be especially interested in the corn pasta posts. (I have no interest in digging through thousands of links and posts that would be spewed up on a google search, but you said yourself that your "fascinated" by the man, maybe you know where to look?)


(Anonymous)
- on 10/19/2005 23:04:59 MDT Print View

I don't have any news about Ray. But if anyone else does, I'd be fascinated to hear!

And no, I don't really have a vendetta with Ray. I bought from his company in the past, after all, and I'd buy from him again in the future if he doesn't go out of business. My real beef is with the groupies (aka ray-bots). Are there really that many stupid sheep looking for a shepherd in this world?


(Anonymous)
about the corn pasta on 10/19/2005 23:08:07 MDT Print View

I have no interest in digging through thousands of links and posts that would be spewed up on a google search, but you said yourself that your "fascinated" by the man, maybe you know where to look?)

I would have provided those links along with the Golite links, but I don't feel like digging through the google listing myself. It was only by chance that I found the Golite listings, incidentally. I hadn't read them before. But I'm glad I found them!

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Anonymously = Bunk on 10/19/2005 23:23:33 MDT Print View

To archeopteryx or what ever and who ever you are??

I am a little embarrass that the really good stuff didn't show up at Google. Google isn't very good. I can also tell you that there are 2 different Bill Fornshell's. One is my cousin. I wondered where he was. Thanks.

The name that shows up with my "Posts" is not my legal name. I also guess the fact that I mentioned some kind of medical problem has caused you to worry that I may have said something that I should have keep a secret. I am 65, oh my now the world knows how old I am. I guess AARP will be after me now.

Hello folks my name is Bill and I am addicted....to Super Ultra Light Backpacking Gear. Oh my now everyone knows that.

And one or more of my pictures shows one of my cats, oh no now everyone knows I have one or 12 cats.

When I was 19 I got a job that required a government security clearance. From that point on my life became public record. I had a sec. clearance till I retired 34 years later. As for my medical condition I have had cancer more than once. Gee do teeth cleaning count against me also. 10 years ago I had cancer and I expect my medical records were out were anyone could see them from then on. Do I care, no. Do I think it is right, no. My medical coverage is covered till I die and that can't change. I am retired, I don't work and really don't need to work. I could really care less and don't really expect to ever have a "real" type job again. I don't expect to have a "future employer" but If I ever had a real type job anytime during the rest of my life it would be doing something I really liked and the selection would probability be more me picking the boss than it would be the boss picking me.

Back to cancer. I talk about my cancer and my successful treatment because I want people to know that lots of people beat cancer and get back to normal or about normal lives. I have had a lot of friends afraid to even visit me because they were afraid of how I would look and they wouldn't know what to say. Lots of people are so scared of the word cancer. I am not saying people don't die from cancer but lots of people also die in car accidents. I have been blessed or I have been lucky, I hope I have been blessed. Oh no, are we still allowed to say something like that.

Edited by bfornshell on 10/19/2005 23:34:12 MDT.

kevin davidson
(kdesign) - F

Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson
Bill F.---AARP bait? on 10/20/2005 00:52:10 MDT Print View

65? You have the energy and creativity of a 25 year old.

archeopteryx .
(archeopteryx2) - F
Re: Anonymously = Bunk on 10/20/2005 01:11:08 MDT Print View

The name that shows up with my "Posts" is not my legal name. I also guess the fact that I mentioned some kind of medical problem has caused you to worry that I may have said something that I should have keep a secret.

I understand your response, but I hope that my point wasn't missed. My subscriber account does have my legal name on it, and in my personal situation, if I had written that post, I wouldn't feel comfortable with it available on the public internet with my full name just to the left. If you feel that the last part of my post was disrespectful or even unpersuasive I will edit it out.

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
2nd account on 10/20/2005 03:03:36 MDT Print View

a little off topic, but...

didn't know you could create a second account. just curious, how is this done? at what point in the acount creation process is a different name entered?

for my part, i'm not going to to do this. i have enough trouble keeping track of what i wrote as me, let alone keeping track of two me's...er...i mean two egos...er...me and an alias. i couldn't keep them straight. as kevin has joked, imagine if there were two "me's" writing long-winded posts. help! even, i couldn't put up with two of me.

oh...also, just in case it makes any diff. to anyone, i thought that the 2nd Anon. was not the same individual as the 1st Anon - solely based upon the tone of the two posts. was i mistaken? my comments were addressed to the 2nd Anon post. just wanted to clarify

archeopteryx .
(archeopteryx2) - F
Re: 2nd account on 10/20/2005 23:20:33 MDT Print View

didn't know you could create a second account. just curious, how is this done? at what point in the acount creation process is a different name entered?

If you are currently logged in, click the "LOGOUT" link in the gray bar near the top of the page.

Click the "LOGIN or CREATE A NEW ACCOUNT" link in the gray bar.

Click the "New Visitors: Create a new account" link in the yellow login box.

Edited by archeopteryx2 on 10/20/2005 23:21:22 MDT.

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Re: 2nd account on 10/21/2005 02:37:07 MDT Print View

A.,

oh...interesting. i'm permanently logged in on my laptop. very clear instructions. prob. never gonna' use it - couldn't pull it off anyways. how many "regulars" wouldn't recognize the writing style even with a diff name?!!

thank you very much . i'm going to make a note of the procedure. take care.

oh...thanks for participating in the Forums. you have your reasons for not using your name. so be it. in my experience, in these Forums you don't have to worry about using your name . perhaps a bit naive of me??? i've been "spanked" for some posts, but the frequent participants here are all really rather civilized individuals - seems like they'd make fine neighbors. nothing to fear from them. oh well...my $0.02. thanks again for the info.

Alan Amaya
(archeopteryx) - F
Re: Re: Re: 2nd account on 10/21/2005 03:00:49 MDT Print View

Oops. I posted with the wrong accountt. Please see below.

Edited by archeopteryx on 10/21/2005 03:07:06 MDT.

archeopteryx .
(archeopteryx2) - F
Re: Re: Re: 2nd account on 10/21/2005 03:09:12 MDT Print View

I'm not worried about the regulars. If you look at my original post, you'll see that I wouldn't mind if my name were visible to registered users (or even if I were reachable via email, a feature present on many other boards). I'm mostly not wanting search engines to associate my full name with every post. I find that it makes the feeling of using a message board much less conversational. It's like if everything I wrote on message boards were published in a book for the general public to critique as some were to Ray Jardine in this thread.