DaveT:

My dislike is not the quality or supposed deterioration thereof -- it's the loud logo.

And yes, I am making up for lost time -- with a vengeance.

Anyone remember it before it became TNF??

Really what? I'm not sure what that link is supposed to inform us about Andy, or do you really dig the E-Tip glove?

Edited by Eugeneius on 01/30/2010 14:04:12 MST.

I do. I used to have some of their gear -- some of the best around for their day. I did not realize they turned into TNF, though.

-- Bob

They were purchased by The North Face in 1980...

Anyone who thinks any one brand is less commercial than the other is delusional.

They must not pop into mass market chains such as Cabela's. ;-)

Just saying.

I don't know Sarah, I do think there are several companies in the outdoor industry whose commerce practices are different from the next guy. Many people here on this forum purchase from Mountain Laurel Designs simply based off the fact that their reputation for intelligent high quality gear and service is unavoidable, not their shameless marketing; I don't think I've ever seen a marketing ad for MLD gear. All companies sell products for individual use, that is a given, however the level at which they sell their products, the decisions they make in manufacturing quality and advertising vary greatly. It does appear that a large portion of The North Face relies on selling a lifestyle or the idea of acquiring a lifestyle; that idea is a commodity today in our free market. Nothing wrong with that. They still have quality gear to offer.

For anyone interested in learning about the evolution of corporations from sellers of products to sellers of a brand (lifestyle), then you should check out Naomi Klein's book "No Logo"
http://www.naomiklein.org/no-logo

I really get confused with all the outdoor companies. Has there actually been many of them that have stayed independent and continued to innovate towards higher quality? I've always thought the modus operandi was to get big enough to sell to a larger sporting goods company, and then that company sells to a conglomerate that's publicly traded? Take Marmot for instance, I think they make some nice sleeping bags, even though I think their quality crested a few years ago. But aren't they part of the same company (Jarden) that owns Mr. Coffee? They've got many sporting goods markets covered, from cheap Coleman gear and Shakespeare tackle in Wal-mart's Sportings Goods, to Marmot or Penn tackle at Cabela's or REI.

How does it all work? Cottage gear maker gets their textiles from subsidiaries of giant conglomerates, and we support them by buying their great products, until the owner gets the unrefusable offer of a lifetime that eventually turns their brand into junk made by a conglomerate that answers to the shareholders. Or the company never grows and just dies.

Eugene, it was in reference to the "big players" not cottage gear.

Everyone from TNF to MH to REI and more...they all are making their real money on lifestyle clothing/gear. That is where the money is and what fuels any R&D being done. As well, the big companies (outside of REI) are all owned by large conglomerates.

So essentially my point was that if one thinks MH is "better" than TNF in some abstract way....it isn't. They are both sold in Cabela's meaning that anyone with money can wear it. It isn't any more burly or cutting edge or less selling out (the OP I was referring to seemed to think that MH logos were somehow less commercial).

Just thoughts to ponder.

And why does it always smack me like people who decide to hate a band once they make the big time? A company either progresses or it reaches it pinnacle and will eventually wither back. A cottage gear company can only be as good as its owner and burn out is a real issue if one is doing all the work themselves.

Isn't Mountain Hardwear owned by Columbia now?

Arc'teryx seems to be all the fashion craze where I'm at. I wouldn't be surprised to see Arcteryx go downhill pretty fast now that the founder has left and they've been sold (to Salomon??). Lately it seems like innovation has dried up at Arcteryx and they're just rolling in money from selling $800 jackets to soccer moms.

Edited by dandydan on 01/31/2010 00:53:07 MST.

Where I live MH is used about town considerably more often than TNF- but every brand is "commercial" and one cannot blame the company if it becomes the brand worn by non-outdoorsman. ULers are being elitist if they look down on non-backpackers wearing "technical" clothing in the mall- they have every right to buy & use as they wish. In fact their purchases are vital to the support of much of the industry. It certainly is common that producers change their emphasis overtime, especially after the founder is no longer involved- heck it even happen to KFC after the Colonel sold out (he criticized extra crispy as a "ball of dough on a stick"). As for prominent logos- they are way too frequent in all product lines. Please leave critics like Naomi Klein out of it- she knows little about economics & less about backpacking.

Hey guys, I think you just got trolled.

This is a two year old thread, started by someone whose only posts were about how crappy TNF is. It was resurrected by a guy whose only posts are to dis TNF, and there's some guy named Spanky Sox posting about how crappy TNF is. Ta DA, we have a winner.

So lets all get a bit serious and go back to discussing how disgusting Budweiser is. There's a real crime against humanity!!!

The only place Bud should be tried is in The Hague.

Dirk

"Hey guys, I think you just got trolled.

This is a two year old thread, started by someone whose only posts were about how crappy TNF is. It was resurrected by a guy whose only posts are to dis TNF,"

And who went to the trouble of doing an avatar defacing NF's logo.

"So lets all get a bit serious and go back to discussing how disgusting Budweiser is. There's a real crime against humanity!!!"

There are worse beer than Bud -- Miller, for instance.

"The only place Bud should be tried is in The Hague."

It's already been tried in the Hague; It's called Stella Artois over there. ;}

This thread led me to the Wikipedia entry for The North Face, which in turn led me to the web site of a parody started by a 16-year-old: The South Butt. The young entrepreneur is being sued by The North Face for trademark infringement. More info at thesouthbutt.com.

The North Face v. The South Butt... too funny

i'm sorry, but ALL beer is good beer when you are backpacking, canoe camping, etc.