Maybe a small wind-up fan

or a hybrid (a battery but also with a wind-up)

that clips on the Ultra

Hmmm, now that's an interesting idea. Thx!

I haven't seen any small wind up fans. Do you know of any?

Peace,

Richard.

Does it get very hot under there? Would you need a metal fan to avoid melting plastic? Might make sourcing more difficult.

Based on my tests w/two Zip stoves (ti and standard) a small computer fan handles the heat w/o a problem if the zip stove is kept high enough above the fan.

Please keep in mind that my test conditions may not apply to your circumstances.

I have finally decided to cut the hole for an OEM Sierra Zip fan assembly. Well, for this experiment. I might try other options as they appear, or occur to me, later.

Here's a Q: If the BB Ultra had a fan as an OEM option who would be interested?

Please state why or why not.


Peace,

Richard.

Perhaps Sierra could work on lightening their design, if the goal is to achieve the lightest possible fan-driven wood burner. The beauty of, and I reckon the mfg philosophy behind, the Bushbuddy is that it is lighter and less complex than a fan-driven stove, yet with the capacity to deliver performance that is comparable to one. This is the primary appeal of the product for most users.

The tiny bit of extra effort sometimes requires to use a BB, versus a Zip-type stove, is probably part of the allure as well. This is a stove that is fundamentally practical to carry as part of a UL kit, while at the same time holding out the promise of uncertainty, of the sort that appeals to those looking to heighten their sense of connection to the outdoors through primitive skills development. The BB lets one take a small but meaningful stand against the slick and shiny trappings of so much of today's gear, including ultralight gear. It doesn't have to do this, certainly, but it can. And for many users, I suspect, it does.

Edited by blister-free on 06/11/2008 20:52:09 MDT.

Add a geared down hand-cranked blower. Might have to have it custom made or at least modded but you could get alot more air circulation than you could with any portable batteries. Throw in some charcoal and you'll get it hot enough to melt aluminum - seriously i've done this on purpose and it works.

Rick,
I'm pretty sure it would melt.

Well said Brett.

Sierra ZIp: It took years for them to make any changes. And years more to offer a Ti version. Over those years i've truly enjoyed conversing w/the lady (sorry, her name escapes me now) who graciously answered my Qs and requests. I always did have the feeling that they were not interested in altering their products. Probably because there doesn't seem to be much demand for woodburners, so why bother?

Given the little I know about you Brett .... all of it impressive .... I would have guessed that you love the BBU. Of course, so do I. But, as you know, I like to mod gear and the BBU screams .... "Fan Me! Fan Me!" [lol]

Need: I honestly don't understand why this keeps coming up. Hikers are one group who should understand that need is mostly irrelevant.

Truth is BPL would be out of business in a heartbeat if folks considered each product they carry on the basis of need. Heck, when I started backpacking as a kid all I needed was a cheap WWII surplus blanket. A tarp made from only the Lord knows what (drop cloth of some kind). And what was essentially a book bag. Add a few matches, an old canteen .... you get the picture. [chuckle]

IOW, who needs the BBU? An old tin can will do.

Better still; a cook fire. There ya go folks! I've just saved you 120 plus HIS and 4.9oz and led you back to using your "bushcraft" skills.

I repeat: I can see no reason not to cut a hole in the base of the BBU to fit an OEM (or MYOG) fan. If anyone has a practical reason why not .... I am truly all ears.

Not that i'll take their advice. The decision's made. [wink]

OK; Brett votes an eloquent No, even if it were OEM.

Any other votes?

Peace,

Richard.

"Any other votes?"

Yes. I vote you go on vacation and give the forums a break for a few days. You can type to your heart's content without sharing it with others. It just seems to be the same ol' same ol', so why bother? You don't seem to be adding anything new.
Let's summarize your points:
a) Your Bush Buddy needs a hole and a fan. Go get 'em, tiger.
b) The WTS descriptions are unclear. Until someone changes that, it is what it is.

That about sums it up. Let's move along now, shall we?

The tone of some of the posts on this thread has become needlessly pugilistic. I’ll try to summarize – and maybe add something Richard can work with.

>> If the BB Ultra had a fan as an OEM option who would be interested?<<

Richard, you have certainly open up a can of worms with your invitation for folks to comment on your plan to modify a nearly flawless design.

As far as I can see, adding a fan to this stove would only take away from all of its advantages (simplicity, elegance, no dependence on gizmos, batteries, or manufactured fuel) to gain . . . what?

Richard, you stated that the fan would add flexibility – but did not expound upon that. I honestly don’t know what you mean by this, but I’m certainly willing to hear you out.

Throughout this thread, the only specific advantage postulated for adding a fan is that it might make lighting the BushBuddy easier. However, several posters have pointed out that – with practice – the BushBuddy is already easy to light without a fan. As a BushBuddy owner myself, I agree.

Thus, without some specific examples of increased flexibility, adding a fan for ease of lighting alone would add dependence on packed-in technology, weight, complexity, and (probably) awkwardness – for a minuscule or nonexistent gain. This is a legitimate point – one not easily dismissed.

The type of backpacker who would buy a BushBuddy in its current form yearns for a simpler form of backpacking and enjoys honing his bushcraft skills – but does not mind the convenience of well-designed “low-tech” (non-gizmo) equipment like the BushBuddy. This type of backpacker would not enjoy a “teched-up” BushBuddy with a fan. I know I would not.

On the other hand, a tiny version of the Zip stove (which it appears you are trying to make) could definitely have broad appeal. A potential pitfall with this type of tiny, fan-driven BushBuddy is that it would consume fuel at a VERY high rate, and would therefore need a large firebox. As Mike said, “The Zip stove is as big as it is for a reason. If you fan the fuel it will burn that much more quickly and if there is a downside to the BB it's that you have to keep feeding it fuel.”

That said, I see no problem with mounting a fan (the small type that cools computer chips – not the whole “box”) in the bottom of the BushBuddy below the ash bin. It should move the air through both pathways (up through the center and up between the outer and inner walls). I bet it will burn really hot.

Richard, let us know how it works.

Hi Guthrie.

Guthrie Wrote: "The tone of some of the posts on this thread has become needlessly pugilistic."

Don't sweat it Guthrie. You'll see the same in any thread I start. And in most threads I post to until site admin tire of being embarrassed by the misguided folk who think that by engaging in personal attacks they are somehow defending Ryan Jordan. They'll tire of it because i've stopped responding to their taunts. Ok, Onward!

Guthrie Wrote: "Richard, you have certainly open up a can of worms with your invitation for folks to comment on your plan to modify a nearly flawless design."

Understood. Please note even you say "nearly." So you, along with most respondents, admit that there is room for improvement.

Flexibility. A better choice of words was when I wrote "versatility." BTW; I hate to edit my posts once uploaded.

Adding a fan would allow for more control of the flame front under a wide variety of conditions. One example; wet wood.

I don't have any trouble lighting the BB Ultra because I use a firestarter. Type varies. But I do agree that w/o some kind of firestarter it can be tricky at times.

Assuming that the only benefit that adding a fan would add is easier starting .... under a wide variety of conditions (Important point here) .... that would be enough for me. Reminder; I like modding gear just for the fun of it. Although I do often, very often, learn so much more about the design/engineering from modding than from OEM use.

The main reason I refrained from addressing other benefits is because I had already just about made up my mind. I also figured that BB Ultra fans [no pun] would readily see how adding a fan would affect usage. My bad if I left out pertinent info.

Guthrie Wrote: "The type of backpacker who would buy a BushBuddy in its current form yearns for a simpler form of backpacking and enjoys honing his bushcraft skills – but does not mind the convenience of well-designed “low-tech” (non-gizmo) equipment like the BushBuddy. "

Guthrie, I don't want to sound argumentative .... but I bought one and I don't fit your description. I am sure there are others like me who'd like to see a BBU w/an OEM fan. Although they may not want to speak up for fear of being attacked by the above-mentioned stalkers.

Ah but the beauty of the BBU w/an OEM Zip-like fan assembly is that like w/the Zip one need not use the fan. More choices, Guthrie. More versatility. Isn't that cool?

OK: Guthrie votes No. W/the qualifier that he feels it might have "broad appeal." So, i'll call that a maybe. And add it to this informal poll as an option.

BBU Scoreboard:
1 Yes.
2 Nos.
1 Maybe.

Thx for your input Guthrie.

Peace,

Richard.

One possible conclusion that you could draw from this discussion is that you can theoretically add a fan to a BB and thereby melt the entire unit (the BB that is, not just the fan).

The lesson I have taken away is that you need some skills or knowledge to light a BB under certain conditions. Also good to know.

I do not own a BB (a rare situation for a gearhead like me). But please don't get me wrong, I think it's a really, really cool stove. It's just that the only case where I see me using it would be on a very long unsupported hike like the Arctic 1000, where the need to reduce your carried fuel load is the deciding criteria. In that case, I can not see me wanting to carry batteries. So I guess you can mark me down for an unqualified "no" on the OEM fan option.

I would like to see you school one of those Jetboil or MSR stoves on boil time though, so fan on!

Edited by jbrinkmanboi on 06/09/2008 01:12:40 MDT.

no it wont melt the fan if it rotate in the right way, if the fan sucks the air from the fire instead of blowing air into the fire it wont last long :)

i melted a fan this way with a prototype done with two tea metal boxes ...

Edited by Fre49 on 06/09/2008 01:02:11 MDT.

Thx Jason.

1 Yes
3 Nos
1 Maybe

I am worried about excess heat. But I am prepared to buy another BBU (and leave that one OEM) if my experiment doesn't work.

Might end up buying one or two more anyway. Stuff I like I usually buy dupes. Not only to have a spare but also for The Girl.

So far I likeee the BBU!!!

Followup Qs:

A) Have you considered that an OEM version wouldn't/shouldn't melt the BBU?
B) If you were to do an Arctic 1000 like trek .... why not do w/o a stove altogether and dig cook fires?

I know "B)" sounds OT but I think it applies to your reasoning in re why you wouldn't use a BBU, w/or w/o OEM fan.

Peace,

Richard.

No vote for me. However, I have no problem with you making your mod. Go for it!

>>> B) If you were to do an Arctic 1000 like trek .... why not do w/o a stove altogether and dig cook fires?

So as not to scar an unspoiled wilderness area. Camp fires are fun, but leave that human look and feel. Again, it is a personal choice.

Thx George.

i'll put you down for another option .... Abstain.

I love campfires but, like you, I refrain. Another reason I like the BB ULtra is the campfire feel .... w/o the campfire guilt.

Scoreboard:

1 Yes
3 Nos
1 Maybe
1 Abstention

Peace,

Richard.

Well it's your stove and you do what you like with it. I have never had any trouble getting my BBU started so I would never consider such a modification. I have more trouble keeping the wind OUT of my BBU rather than getting it IN...maybe I need a reverse fan!

>>> maybe I need a reverse fan!

I thought that fans did turn in reverse in the Southern Hemisphere.

"I thought that fans did turn in reverse in the Southern Hemisphere."

Yeah, and water swirls down the drain the other way too...but the wind sure does blow from all directions, sometimes at the same time :()

Allison votes no on modification. But that's not the subject of my informal poll. So we'll just ignore the vote.

Allison: Starting the BBU is something folks have mentioned but it's not why I choose to modify my stove as is quite clearly stated by me in this thread. ;-)

The BBU should *not* be used if it's windy w/o protection of some kind.

Would you like to vote on the topic at hand? If so .... TIA Allison.

Peace,

Richard.