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Anthea Michaelis
(antheawood) - F - M

Locale: Australia/US
Clothing repellent on 06/05/2008 13:10:40 MDT Print View

A few months ago there was a post about 'dipping' your clothes in Permethrin to make them bugproof. I have looked everywhere for these posts but can't find them. Can anyone help me on how I go about this. I looked for .5% Permethrin but the closest I can find is 2.5%. I am going to Alaska this summer and I have been warned the bugs are going to be bad.
Anthea

Sean Walashek
(caraz) - F

Locale: bay area
I dont know where to look on 06/05/2008 14:32:06 MDT Print View

But the trick is to only apply the repellent to the cuffs and neck, not the whole piece. If the shirt is so light that you could still be bitten through it then I don't know what to say.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: Clothing repellent on 06/05/2008 18:21:52 MDT Print View

A Jerry Goller post from another board...

"Permethrin (Yard Guard, or some such. Just
look for 2.5% concentration with no other active ingredients. I get mine at
Home Depot), pour it in a plastic 2.5 or 5 gallon bucket, put on plastic
gloves, dump in clothes (don't forget your hat), swish until clothes are
wetted out, wring out clothes, hang them up to dry (outside) and let them
dry thoroughly. Wear.

That lasts me a whole season. The only problem I ever had was when I treated
some wool socks. Bad idea. I got a light rash on both feet. I suspect the
wool never dried out or absorbed too much. Anyway, I just don't do my socks
anymore.

Jerry"

Joe Kuster
(slacklinejoe) - MLife

Locale: Flatirons
Clothing repellent on 06/05/2008 23:15:01 MDT Print View

If you are having trouble finding the right concentrations I believe that Sawyer products has a wash in treatment available. I'm sure the home depot way is cheaper, but it may be more skin safe.

Anthea Michaelis
(antheawood) - F - M

Locale: Australia/US
Clothing repellent on 06/06/2008 14:43:33 MDT Print View

Thank you so much. Home depot doesn't have Yard Guard any more but a home brand which looks the same. I also checked out the Sawyer products which are widely available.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: Clothing repellent on 06/06/2008 16:09:44 MDT Print View

Truthfully, I would never soak my clothes in that stuff, but would get a sprayer and wet the fabric well. That would be less wasteful.

Jim W.
(jimqpublic) - MLife

Locale: So-Cal
Sawyer Permethrin on 06/06/2008 16:31:23 MDT Print View

Sawyer makes Permethrin solutions specifically for treating clothing. It is cheap enough at REI- $12 for 24 ounces.

The Sawyer website has links to military studies on effectiveness. They talk about the chemical bonding to clothing fibers- giving the impression that the inert ingredients in the solution help the bond. I wouldn't expect Home Depot insecticide to have those properties.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Sawyer Permethrin on 06/06/2008 17:05:28 MDT Print View

Permethrin is permethrin is permethrin. The active ingredient is one and the same -- be it Sawyer (for clothing) or the Home Depot stuff (for plants).

HOWEVER -- for clothing and gear treatment -- DON'T LISTEN to folks who tell you to buy the stuff in bulk at Home Depot! The difference lies in the "inactive ingredients". The Home Depot stuff is formulated to bond the Permethrin to plants while Sawyer is formulated to bond the Permethrin to fabrics!

As a comparison: applying Sawyer to your clothing is good for a few weeks -- even with a few washings in between. But applying the stuff directly on your skin is probably only good for an hour or so. Why? Because Sawyer doesn't bond the Permethrin to your skin! And the Home Depot stuff won't bond so well to your clothing and gear either. So, choose the right stuff for the intended purpose!

Edited by ben2world on 06/06/2008 17:07:59 MDT.

Mark Mendell
(mmendell) - M

Locale: Midwest
Permethrin on 06/06/2008 17:10:50 MDT Print View

I have a couple of boxes of the stuff on my shelf, but have held off.

Is in reasonable or reasonable to assume that any contact with water in the bush is going to leave some of that stuff behind?

Edited by mmendell on 06/06/2008 17:11:43 MDT.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Permethrin on 06/06/2008 17:17:10 MDT Print View

Mark:

As above, it depends on the formulation -- how the inactive ingredients will bond the active Permethrin?

Read the instructions on your boxes. Are they meant for clothing? If so, they should tell you both how to apply and how long you can expect the efficacy to last. Sawyer brand Permethrin can last up to 6 weeks / 6 washings, as an example. Your stuff may vary.

Edited by ben2world on 06/06/2008 17:17:57 MDT.

Joe Kuster
(slacklinejoe) - MLife

Locale: Flatirons
Clothing repellent on 06/06/2008 20:38:07 MDT Print View

I forgot to mention a word of safety. While permithrine is safe on the skin in doses found in treated clothing, it isn't kind to the respitory system and can cause irritation of the skin in too high of dosages.

Please read the instructions on the bottles carefully, if you use a sprayer, I believe that a respirator is required for some types of treatments. The wash in stuff is safer to work with if memory serves, but again, make sure you follow the directions. Having ended up in the hospital with anaphalitic shock due to chemical exposure once made me painfully aware of such things.

Edited by slacklinejoe on 06/06/2008 22:04:14 MDT.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Sawyer Permethrin on 06/06/2008 21:23:39 MDT Print View

Another thing about insecticidal formulations of permethrin: they break down very rapidly, especially in sunlight. Their useful life is typically 24 hours, or less. There must be some ingredient in clothing formulations that, in addition to bonding, extends the life of the active ingredient.

James D Buch
(rocketman) - F

Locale: Midwest
24 Hours of protection ? on 07/04/2008 14:34:31 MDT Print View

Tom Kirchner Wrote:


>Another thing about insecticidal formulations of >permethrin: they break down very rapidly, especially in >sunlight. Their useful life is typically 24 hours, or >less. There must be some ingredient in clothing >formulations that, in addition to bonding, extends the >life of the active ingredient.

POST REPLY


I'm looking at "Cutter Bug Free Backyard" spray concentrate which is the 2.5% permethrin product I picked up at Home Depot.

It says "Control for up to 4 weeks".

There is no cautionary statement that one must provide shade to the yard area or it won't last because it degrades quickly in sunlight.

Permethrin is widely used in agriculture, and it widely cited as having lasting effect, and no cautions of sunlight limitations were read during this research.

I suspect that the "24 hour in sunlight" is one of those good sounding things like "you must drink eight eight ounce glasses of water every day!" things that circulate endlessly with no actual backing. Somebody passed it along to you, and it is getting the normal pass-along again.

There is a lot of real information available on permethrin, and there is the option for some to be hidden in company proprietary formulations. That doesn't prove that there is a lot hidden in proprietary formulations, however.

Next year, there will be a rollout of polymer (PVA) combined with permethrin for a 100 washing clothing system that repels insects. It is a civilian offshoot of military technology that some nations have used for a few years. It is probably an extra cost technology over the current market technology.

You can read various patents on this - and a patent is supposed to be full disclosure of the technology so that everyone knows what is protected and what is therefore not protected. Patents can be invalidated if key information is not disclosed.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: 24 Hours of protection ? on 07/05/2008 17:13:07 MDT Print View

OK James,
I did some "Googling" and here's what I came up with: Permethrin is a synthetic version of pyrethrins, a group of compounds which are derived from Chrysanthymum flowers. It is an analog which has a couple of extra ingredients to protect it from the UV components of sunlight, with the result that Permethrin does, indeed, persist in sunlight. Pyrethrins, the natural version which I have been using in my garden for some 20 years now, breaks down in a matter of hours when exposed to sunlight. Being focused on organic gardening, I was unaware that permethrin is also used agriculturally, but my original statement about added ingredients to prevent breakdown in sunlight stands, only the application is different. I thank
you for bringing it to my attention nonetheless, as I now have an additional option to consider in my pest control program, pending research as to its ramifications in an organic setting.

"I suspect that the "24 hour in sunlight" is one of those good sounding things like "you must drink eight eight ounce glasses of water every day!" things that circulate endlessly with no actual backing. Somebody passed it along to you, and it is getting the normal pass-along again."

This comment I consider to be gratuitously insulting, exactly the kind of provocative comment that has bedevilled several forum threads of late and led to a downward spiral of tit for tat incivility. Better to inquire as to the other person's reasons for posting as they did, rather than condescendingly assume they are just passing along groundless, feel-good drivel. You might even learn something occasionally.

victoria maki
(clt1953) - F

Locale: northern minnesota
re:bug stuff on 07/05/2008 17:39:38 MDT Print View

anthea. i purchased a permanone through campmor that worked excellent. the next time i purchased a simular product called repel through gander mt. that did not work as well. i did put more of the first product on than the second, so maybe that's the trick. the can of repel has only 0.5%, so that might be it too.....

James D Buch
(rocketman) - F

Locale: Midwest
24 hours of protection ? on 07/06/2008 20:19:11 MDT Print View

You wrote specifically about permethrin....

>Another thing about insecticidal formulations of >permethrin: they break down very rapidly, especially in >sunlight. Their useful life is typically 24 hours, or >less. There must be some ingredient in clothing >formulations that, in addition to bonding, extends the >life of the active ingredient.


Then, you wrote.........

>OK James,
>I did some "Googling" and here's what I came up with: Permethrin is a synthetic version of pyrethrins, a group of compounds which are derived from Chrysanthymum flowers. It is an analog which has a couple of extra ingredients to protect it from the UV components of sunlight, with the result that Permethrin does, indeed, persist in sunlight. Pyrethrins, the natural version which I have been using in my garden for some 20 years now, breaks down in a matter of hours when exposed to sunlight. Being focused on organic gardening, I was unaware that permethrin is also used agriculturally, but my original statement about added ingredients to prevent breakdown in sunlight stands, only the application is different. I thank
you for bringing it to my attention nonetheless, as I now have an additional option to consider in my pest control program, pending research as to its ramifications in an organic setting.
>

Your confusing permethrin with pyrethrins caused confusion in others.

When confusion is caused, a lot of things happen. The confuser needs to shoulder responsibility....

mark henley
(flash582) - F
24 hours of protection on 07/06/2008 21:36:25 MDT Print View

.....When confusion is caused, a lot of things happen. The confuser needs to shoulder responsibility....

Pretty harsh words, don't you think?

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: 24 hours of protection ? on 07/07/2008 16:42:11 MDT Print View

"Your confusing permethrin with pyrethrins caused confusion in others."

"When confusion is caused, a lot of things happen. The confuser needs to shoulder responsibility...."
To the degree that I caused any confusion, I will gladly acept responsibility, although I do not detect a lot of confusion in the wake of my post. What I will not accept is being condescended to, which was the tone of your original post, and this one as well. Climb down off your high horse, rocketman