I have recently revamped my shelter system. I am saddened by it, but I felt I needed to to keep backpacking fun for me.

I sold my tarp and bivy, and bought an SL2 (might return and get an SL1). This might crush my hopes and dreams of doing actual 5lb trips.

My question: Can 5 lbs be acheived with 1) A double walled tent, and 2) A rugged backpackpack (no silnylon, cuben, etc). Assume summer conditions (lows 40 or above) with possibility of rain.

I can get around 5.6lbs, but that is sacrificing a lot in the way of cooking, comfort, etc. And I haven't actually backpacked with this gear list - it is just a possibility with the gear I have.

Edited by splproductions on 06/05/2008 10:03:57 MDT.

PACKING
9.5 - GoLite Ion (the only piece I don't have)
0.0 - No pack cover, use poncho

SHELTER
50.0 - SL2
1.8 - Stakes (6)

SLEEPING
11.2 - Nunatak ArcAT
7.2 - MB Down Inner jacket
3.0 - 1/4" Thinlight, torso length

COOKING
0.0 - No cooking
0.4 - Spork (for cold bag meals)

TOILETRIES
1.5 - Dr.Bronners Soap (to wash socks), Sunscreen, Toothbrush

MISC
2.0 - Topo Maps

CLOTHING
3.7 - Houdini
5.0 - SilCape
2.0 - Smartwool Adrenaline socks

FA/SURVIVAL
5.0 - First-Aid/Survival kit (includes compass)

That is 6.4 lbs (102 ounces). Any thoughts, problems, ideas? If I used an SL1, that would drop about 8 oz off, making it 5.9lbs.

Ryan,

Just remember, there is nothing magical about 5 lbs. 5 lbs is just an arbitrary number.

I personally can't achieve a 5 lb baseweight (and enjoy the experience) for several reasons:

Don't like to hike in my baselayers (which I use for sleeping)

Can't sleep on a foam mat.

Need a good pillow.

Carry a cell phone and camera (notice you often don't see these listed in spreadsheets)

It might also help if you elaborate on your reason for selling the tarp and bivy. If it's because you just don't get along with a bivy (which is the case for me), Take a look at the gatewood cape. You don't need to use a bivy with that shelter, plus you have the dual use for raingear. That will dramatically cut your weight. If you have an issue with bugs, You can use a gatewood cape/serenity bugnet combination, 18 oz for shelter, and raingear.

Dan

Edited by dag4643 on 06/05/2008 10:53:40 MDT.

yes, 5 lbs really is just a silly, completely arbitary number. it really doesn't matter if you are at 4 or 5 or 7. lower weights are better, but at some point the Reduced Pack Weight line intersects with the Comfort or Safety or Expense lines, and it doesn't make sense to try to go lower.

that said, i sure would buy a used Tarptent Contrail if i were you (for solo hiking). 25 oz takes a quick 28 oz (1 and 3/4 pounds!) out of your pack vs. the SL2 with stakes! why do you want a double walled tent? i have hiked for days in rainy conditions in a tarptent with no real problems.

backpack-wise, you can get a seriously tough pack that is pretty light. golite ion for a small one, or packs from ula and mld. i prefer a tougher pack that i don't have to be super careful with - that's a weigh tradeoff i am happy to make.

i'd suggest checking out the recent thread where folks are posting their sub-5 lists, and see what ideas are in there to help you reduce pack weight.

i think for summertime hiking out here in the west, sub-5 is very achievable. for me that means a long MLD Poncho-Tarp likely with no bivy, GoLite Ion, 35 degree WM bag, maybe an alcohol stove setup, etc. the problem comes when you try to add in a digital camera, ipod, etc.!

Edited by DaveT on 06/05/2008 11:04:33 MDT.

I actually like sleeping in a bivy, all zipped up and "closed-in" feeling. No problems there. The bugs don't bother me (unless it's extreme mosquitos - but I don't encounter that often). My issue is with the tarp set up not being free-standing. If I am backpacking with someone else, which I usually am, I can't/don't want to continue hiking to find a place where I can stake a tarp down or use natural features. I hike in Southern Utah a lot, and half the terrain in straight sandstone. I can't pitch on that, but my friends/family can. I can't pitch on loose sand, despite my "sand stakes". I could spend a long time rigging something up, but I'd rather just put a tent up. In Utah, a water source often will dictate camp selection, and I can't have my cake (water) and eat it too (have nice ground or trees to stake to). Much of the time there is no such thing as a tree.

Well, there's my beef. From what I've read, it seems that all of the TarpTents are not free-standing. Is that correct? Do I have a lighter option for a free-standing tent - single or double?


--------------------------------------
As far as the "magic number 5", I realize it's arbitrary. I guess it just keeps me in line so my pack doesn't end up being 20lbs. If I constantly shoot for 5, I might end up at 6, or 7, etc, which is fine.

Edited by splproductions on 06/05/2008 12:02:01 MDT.

Regarding freestanding tarptents, the only ones I know of are Henry Shires' Rainbow and Double Rainbow. They can be used either staked or freestanding (with trekking poles). It is pretty nifty. At 40 ounces, the Double Rainbow is a heck of a lot lighter than the SL2 (and even the SL1), but there are certainly pros and cons to each.

Edited by delvxe on 06/05/2008 12:17:44 MDT.

Hey Terry,

I just spent some time reading a thread about the Double Rainbow and whether or not it should be classified as "free-standing", etc. The only problem I find for me is I don't use trekking poles - which is the way it becomes free-standing. I don't know if I can really get much lighter than an SL2 or SL1 (I debate between the two because the SL1 just seems so tight). Maybe I could order a BigSky tent! :)

Edited by splproductions on 06/05/2008 12:32:22 MDT.

6 lbs is nothing to be ashamed of for sure! But I can definitely relate to wanting to hit that magic 5 lbs mark.

I've found that on the rare occasions I do hike with others, I throw in a few extras that add weight for convenience's sake. Larger, less fiddly tarp, titanium mug and Supercat instead of Heine/tealight, more durable pack, etc. The people I go with are usually traditional backpackers, so I don't gain anything by being able to hike 25 or 30 miles since they aren't going to keep up. I'd rather add a little weight and hike a little slower with them than fly into camp and spend a few hours waiting for them.

If you have gear that you are happy with and come in at 5.01 lbs, then so be it. No reason to make unwanted sacrifices for some arbitrary milestone. You're doing much better than most hikers if you're carrying only 6 lbs.

Adam

Hmm,

Golite Utopia 1, freestanding tarp, at just over 2 lbs. Can use one of those with your bivy or a light groundcloth.

Those Big Agnes tents are pretty light, If rain is not a problem you don't need the fly and it would be a light setup. I'm not familiar with those tents, you might be able to set them up fly only, which would be light, but You probably need to stake out the vestibule.

Ryan,
Also take a look at the MSR Hubba Hubba, here.

Same area, but two doors and vestibules makes it a very utilitarian tent at about under 4.5 pounds, depending on model. I don't even wake up when my wife takes a walk at 2 am.

Adam,

I should clarify that I am not actually doing trips at 6lbs - or at least haven't yet. I really don't know if I care to make the sacrifice that it takes - sleeping with only a Thinlight pad can really take a toll on me. So... I bring the POE Ether Thermo (1lb), and I usually bring a camera (fairly heavy at over 8oz), I usually bring a GPS... you get the point. It adds up fast.

It looks like an actual trip - with the things I know I would actually throw in my pack - I would be at 9.2 lbs. That's with a GPS, camera, and an inflatable pad.

Daniel,

That Utopia 1 is worth a closer look. I had forgotten about their new shelter line-up. Thanks!

Edited by splproductions on 06/05/2008 18:02:28 MDT.

I've never seen that the Utopia 1 in person but this blog post has the best pictures I've seen of that shelter, they give a good idea of what it's like:

http://beyondx.exblog.jp/7863696/