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KEN LARSON
(KENLARSON) - MLife

Locale: Western Michigan
prefilter on 03/03/2011 13:12:48 MST Print View

Rick….“I confess I had to look up "pelon" and the closest I can find is "pellon" facing as used in sewing. Is that the stuff?”

>>>>>YEP, my wife and I sews a lot and I thought I would give it a try.

“So you suppose the pack towel fabric works so well because it's highly hydrophilic?”

>>>>>>That’s my guess and why I tried them.


Roleigh….“pre-filter for steripen to rid water of any crud (by the way, steripen's own technical literature says it does not purify a wolf parasite eggs which are too big for the steripen to handle, but the pre-filter will take care of that).”

>>>>>+1 The bottom line is BOILING OR FILTERING your water will remove the 25 micron hydatid organism threat of the tapeworm.

The use of chemical or UV treatment to remove the bacteria (0.3 - 1 micron), protozoa (3 - 20 micron) and virus (0.01 micron) will NOT remove or eliminate the hydatid tapeworms threat. If you are using chemical or UV treatment for your water, PRE FILTER with a filter that will remove 25 micron size particles…(eg. Diesel fuel filtering material 1- 10 micron, http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=filter+bags, KRUPS - Gold Tone Coffee Filter 3 micron, handkerchief, MSR towels, paper coffee filters 5-15 micron)to remove the hydatid organism.

Edited by KENLARSON on 03/04/2011 07:21:54 MST.

Roleigh Martin
(marti124) - MLife

Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
Re: prefilter on 03/03/2011 13:29:55 MST Print View

Ken, when you state the micron range for Dudadiesel, that is for the range of all of their filters. They sell pre-filters that average 1 micron, others that are 5 micron, and others with less filtering ability. The pre-filter I showed is labeled a 1 micron filter, but with the caveats I mentioned, which is why I'm interested in knowing about your pre-filters, if you have one that is absolute 1 micron pre-filter, I want to know how to order it.

As I mentioned, I use the pre-filter always in conjunction with something else (either steripen, chlorine dioxide tablets, or combo sawyer .1 micron filter and chlorine dioxide tablets)).

KEN LARSON
(KENLARSON) - MLife

Locale: Western Michigan
pre filter on 03/03/2011 14:07:14 MST Print View

Roleigh….“ what is the part number of your 1 micron (absolute) filter equivalent to the one I showed from Dudadiesel.”

>>>>>NO, Global Filter, Part # is just the description below for their Standard Mesh Liquid Bag .
Type Fiber – NMO (Nylon Monofilament)
Micron Rating – 1 (micro rating ranges from 1 – 1500)
Bag Finish - Plain
Bag Size - 1
Bag Style - PESS

The bag you have from Dudadiesel has its emphasis in “supplies for SVO, biodiesel, solar water heater technology and will soon also push for solar electrical cells (PV cells), wind power, geothermal systems and energy efficient devices such as LED lights and systems which recycle heat.”

Global Filters has its emphasis in “High Purity Pleated Filter Cartridges for liquid filtration in a variety of Industries including: Food & Beverage, Pharmaceutical, Enzyme, Ethanol, Electronics, Water Service, Reverse Osmosis Pre-filters, Chemical, Petro-Chemicals, Refining, Cosmetics, Ink/Paint.


“What do you mean by "absolute"?”
>>>>> My mistake! Thanks for catching that. It should read:
A NOMINAL rating is attached to filters that can be shown under controlled conditions to remove an acceptable statistical amount of particles of a certain size, even though the actual pores or openings of the filter may be much larger that the particles being removed. The typical way that a nominal filter rating is reported would be in the form of a statement such as: “Removes >99.9% of particles 3μm (micron) or larger.” This means that under field conditions, a user can be confident that the filter will remove greater than 99.9% of pathogenic organisms larger than 3 μm. This information is obtained by challenging filters with test waters containing suspensions of 3μm spheres. A similar cryptosporidium or giardia claim would require a challenge using live cryptosporidium or giardia organisms. Nominal ratings are usually applied to depth filters.

An ABSOLUTE rating can only be applied to a filter that the end user can actually determine the size of the largest pore. Such a filter can be integrity tested using a non-destructive test method and the data can be used to determine the actual size of the largest pore. Absolute ratings can only be applied to membrane filters (see definition below) due to the requirement of a definable pore. If a filter manufacturer applies an absolute rating to a filter, they should be able to provide the user with a non-destructive test protocol that will allow the user to verify the absolute rating.

“Ken, when you state the micron range for Dudadiesel, that is for the range of all of their filters. They sell pre-filters that average 1 micron, others that are 5 micron, and others with less filtering ability.”

>>>>> “micron range for Dudadiesel” above should read micron range for Global Filters do range from 1 – 1500 microns in their Standard Mesh Liquid Bag Models....they have other models not applicable to this discussion. http://www.globalfiltercorp.com/StandardMeshLiquidBags.html

“As I mentioned, I use the pre-filter always in conjunction with something else (either steripen, chlorine dioxide tablets, or combo sawyer .1 micron filter and chlorine dioxide tablets)).”
>>>>>Likewise, I prefilter and us UV or a .02 micron Sawyer PURIFIER.

Edited by KENLARSON on 03/04/2011 07:15:39 MST.

Roleigh Martin
(marti124) - MLife

Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
Re: pre filter on 03/03/2011 14:23:14 MST Print View

Ken, I'm confused, are you saying a Dudadiesel filter that has a nominal 1 micron rating is inferior to your filter with a 1-1000 micron rating, just because your filter is specifically targeted to drinkable liquids as opposed to biodiesal fuel use?

Don't you have a filter almost identical to the one I showed from Dudadiesel, your pictures show filters that look almost identical?

Laurence Beck
(beckla) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
How do you use the Dudadiesel Filter? on 03/03/2011 14:34:48 MST Print View

Roleigh, How do you use this Dudadiesal filter? I normally backpack in the Sierras and I carry XiniX Klear Water liguid chlorine dioxide treatment. A 1 ml drop treats one quart in 15 mins for Giardia. I would be interested in a pre-filter only for the ascetic value of removing floaties and silt. Do you hang this filter and pour through it or, do you rubber band it across the mouth of your clean water receptacle?

One thing about XiniX Klear Water is that you can treat a larger quantity of water if you let it sit overnight. This is one way that I use it to conserve on Klear Water.

Larry

KEN LARSON
(KENLARSON) - MLife

Locale: Western Michigan
pre filtrer on 03/03/2011 14:36:43 MST Print View

Roleigh...."Ken, I'm confused, are you saying a Dudadiesel filter that has a nominal 1 micron rating is inferior to your filter with a 1-1000 micron rating, just because your filter is specifically targeted to drinkable liquids as opposed to biodiesal fuel use?"

>>>>>I am not saying that at all. Micron rating are micron rating weather used for diesel or water. Global Filters have a wide range of filtering application compare to Dudadiesel as I see it.

Roleigh Martin
(marti124) - MLife

Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
Re: How do you use the Dudadiesel Filter? on 03/03/2011 14:45:14 MST Print View

Larry,

I bring along two 1.8 oz twist-n-lock ziplock quart containers, one is labeled "dirty" and the other "clean". I scoop up dirty water with the dirty container, and pour the dirty water into the dudadiesel filter into the clean container. The clean container is then steripen'd or else poured into a 2 qt platypus container (with a 1" cap neck). I repeat this twice for the platypus container, then I put in 2 chlorine dioxide tablets in that platypus, put the 1" lid back on the platypus, wait 1/2 hour, and the water is useable for camp in the evening.

I have done beta testing for Steripen and got confirmation from Steripen's support that it will work just fine with the twist-n-lock ziplock quarter container with the caveat that due to UV radiation, the containers are not long term containers. I replace them every 2 years or sooner. I only bring one lid with me, for the clean container, which is kept inside the dirty container when hiking/packing.

I do not use a Nalgene bottle, weighs about the same as 4 of the ziplock containers.

Roleigh

Roleigh Martin
(marti124) - MLife

Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
Re: pre filtrer on 03/03/2011 14:46:46 MST Print View

Ken, can't you just post a link or part number of the closest competing filter to the DudaDiesel filter I linked to, provide a photo of it, and ordering information, along with technical specs? Thanks!

Roleigh Martin
(marti124) - MLife

Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
Re: Re: How do you use the Dudadiesel Filter? on 03/03/2011 15:09:05 MST Print View

Larry, I forgot to answer your other question. I hang the filter on the top of my pack to dry out between water stops. I squeeze it dry first. If I ever put the prefilter in my pack, I put it in a ziplock freezer quart bag. Overnight at camp, I hang it from a branch to air out.

Roleigh Martin
(marti124) - MLife

Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
Re: Re: pre filtrer on 03/03/2011 15:24:47 MST Print View

Ken, I'm sorry, I thought you worked for Global Filter. Never mind my request.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
"DISPOSABILITY" on 03/03/2011 15:33:34 MST Print View

I use the smallest cone shaped coffee filter available (#1 I think) in a small funnel for prefiltering. Then I dispose it in my trash bag. I don't want to risk re-using it after bacteria have a chance to grow on both sides of it when stored wet.

Never had a problem with this filtration method.

Roleigh Martin
(marti124) - MLife

Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
Re: "DISPOSABILITY" on 03/03/2011 15:37:55 MST Print View

I dispose of my 1 micron pre-filter at the end of each hike I've used it on. I do wash it with water (kind of a back-flush) while on the trail, and have it dry out daily if it is not raining. When you buy them in bulk (I buy 6-12 at a time), it's cheap but not as cheap as coffee filters, but then 1 micron has it's advantages.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Best pre-filter is a 1 oz, 1 micron oil filter from DudaDiesel on 03/03/2011 18:08:30 MST Print View

"About $3"

Plus $9.95 shipping. :(

Brendan Swihart
(brendans) - MLife

Locale: Fruita CO
filter bags on 03/03/2011 18:54:34 MST Print View

looks like there are some on ebay for $3-4 and only a couple bucks shipping. search for 1 micron filter bag.

Mike W
(skopeo) - F

Locale: British Columbia
ultralight water prefilter on 03/03/2011 19:21:05 MST Print View

I've been using the Dudadiesel filters since Roleigh original post and I find them easy to use. I cut the bottom off the filter to size them down a little and toss the rest away. I can usually get several trips out of a filter (the water is pretty clear in my area).

The cut-off filter only weighs .6 oz wet and I leave it in the mesh pocket of my pack between uses. I Steripen my water in my water scoop (cut-off bottom of a Platy) and then pour the water through the filter cloth into my wide mouth Nalgene Cantene. Here's a picture I posted somewhere else on this forum that shows the cut-off filter cloth.

1 micron cloth filter

Roleigh Martin
(marti124) - MLife

Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
Re: Re: "DISPOSABILITY" on 03/03/2011 20:14:06 MST Print View

Pricing and shipping. Yes qty 1 from DudaDiesel is not cheapest way to go, but qty 5+ gets them for $2.50 apiece, so you end up saving money from DudaDiesel vs. buying them from Ebay at a certain level of qty. It's a math issue to work out for your needs. I used to use Ebay to buy them until I figured out the best way to get them.

Ps, Mike, thanks for the credit line. I'm glad I turned a lot of backpackers onto this fine pre-filter.

Edited by marti124 on 03/03/2011 20:15:03 MST.

Matthew Swierkowski
(Berserker) - F

Locale: Southeast
My Attempt on 03/04/2011 15:38:44 MST Print View

Well, here's my attempt at this thing:
Platy cap pre-filter inside shot

platy cap pre-filter outside shot

As long as the screen is glued in there good I should be good to go. Just for everyone's info I used the Loctite Plastics Bonding System (an activator and super glue).


I'm kinda embarrassed to reveal my pre-filter concept before I found this post, but it's pretty darn funny so check it out:
Keurig K-cup pre-filter

This thing is a Keurig K-cup reusable coffee filter with a bottle top glued to it. The platy cap was going to be glued to the bottle cap, and that would allow for it to be threaded onto a platy container. This also would allow for easy cleaning as I could unthread the bottle cap to clean it out. I didn't totally finish it as I used the platy cap to make the other pre-filter, but intial weight measurements put this thing at about 0.7 oz...yikes. So anyway, I hope you had a good laugh at my expense, and I really appreciate this thread...only wish I'd a found it a hair sooner...of course if that had happened we wouldn't be blessed with the awesome apparatus above...ha ha ha.

Nico .
(NickB) - MLife

Locale: Los Padres National Forest
pre-filter disappointment on 03/29/2011 16:56:17 MDT Print View

Hi Mike and Roleigh,

I saw the 1 micron bio-diesel filter fabric bags that you guys are using as a pre-filter in your water treatment systems. I thought that was a great idea, so I ordered a few to try out.

I cut one down a bit, basically took off the top half, leaving the bottom section intact (it looks like a small upside down beanie) and took it on a day hike this last weekend. I attempted to treat some muddy snow runoff at one point in the hike, so I ran it through the 1-micron pre-filter and it still came out really turbid. Not much clearer than the water in the creek actually. I dumped it and ended up just collecting clean snow, letting it melt and then zapping the melted snow water with the steripen instead.

So, I'm curious as to how well these pre-filters have worked for you guys at removing silt from muddy water. I'm wondering if the problem is that water is passing through the seam of the filter bag where it was sewn together and so it's not really getting filtered through the 1-micron fabric? Maybe I need to cut out a section in a different way to avoid the seam and have a solid piece of the filter fabric instead. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Nick

Roleigh Martin
(marti124) - MLife

Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
Re: pre-filter disappointment on 03/29/2011 17:10:24 MDT Print View

Couple of questions and comments, Nick. I only cut out the metal ring of the filter. Left the rest there. Did any water pour over the top of your cut-down filter?

Anyway, with murky water, the purpose of the prefilter for me is to get the dirty water that is going to be filtered by my .1 micron Sawyer filter - http://www.sawyer.com/SP122.htm to be prefiltered so that the Sawyer filter does not get immensely clogged up fast. The water that comes out of the Sawyer filter is then given a tablet of Chlorine Dioxide to deal with viruses, 20 minutes later, I can drink the water. With Beaver Bond, Silty water from Superior Hiking Trail, the water is still colored rusty color, but it tastes just fine.

Another SHT hiker, a married couple, they prefiltered their water with the same DuoDiesel filter (not my DuoDiesel filter, they had their own), then they used a Steripen to purify that water, and they drank that and had no complaints. I felt the water I drank was cleaner having been filtered down to .1 micron.

What were you doing with the water afterwards. After all, the word "pre-" in "pre-filter" presumes something is going to be filtering the water ultimately.

Nico .
(NickB) - MLife

Locale: Los Padres National Forest
pre-filter on 03/29/2011 17:30:38 MDT Print View

Thanks Roleigh,

I was careful to regulate the "flow" of water through the pre-filter so that water didn't make it into the container without passing through the pre-filter first (I poured water into my 1L Nalgene cantene from a water scoop with the pre-filter set in the cantene opening).

In this case, I was using the pre-filter with a steripen. The water probably would have been fine to drink after zapping with the UV light... I guess I was just expecting the 1-micron pore size to be fine enough to remove most of the sediment from the water. Instead the turbid water passed through the pre-filter and still came out looking turbid.