I live in the Northwest, where we have really good day hiking. As a result, I've done all of my backpacking in the late summer. I'm quite conformable on the snow, but I've never camped in it. I've seen a lot of discussions about winter camping, but not as much about Spring camping in the snow. This has been a big snow year this year, so I thought I would give it a try. Are there special considerations from an ultralight gear perspective I should keep in mind? I now use a down bag and a tarptent. Do these make sense, or should I adapt to heavier gear (that I used to use)? The weather is mild and the days are long, so I imagine a lot of the techniques which apply in the winter aren't necessary (other than using dead men instead of poles).

Edited by rossbleakney on 05/08/2008 16:27:17 MDT.

When spring snow camping in western mountains be SURE you are not in avalanche territory. True, spring snow is safer because it is more coonsolidated but it DOES avalanche nevertheless.

If you will be in avalanche territory you need to:

1. travel in a party of no less that four. (Wouldn't you like at least 3 people to dig you out?)


2. **have all been trained in avalanche safety and rescue**
(Reading a book ain't sufficient by any means)

3. ALL carry an avalanche beacon
avalanche shock-corded probes
avalanche specific shovels (NO plastic shovels)
at least two PLRB (rescue) beacons as made by ARC or SPOT to call for help. Two beacons B/C one could be buried with a victim.

Eric

Good advice about the avalanches. Mr. B and I did a dayhike to Murphy Lakes off Highway 2 last Saturday, and I was casting my eyes about thinking what a fabulous place to do an overnighter in the snow with the BPL'ers from the PNW. It's only about 3 miles in, but it was steep in places and the last little bit had deep, mushy, ready-to-slide snow. We wore our avvy gear, and we've had Avvy I training. There were several areas we decided to avoid because of our training and experience. We also serve as a balance for each other's enthusiasm. Usually one or the other of us is just smart enough to point out the need to change the route. Of course, it helps if you actually turn on the beacon, which Mr. B found out he hadn't done on this trip until we got home. Sigh.

As for the original question about backpacking in the spring snow, I didn't do anything particularly different last month on an overnighter. The snow is crusty and coated with fir needles in some areas and mushy in other areas. The mushy snow is easier to scoop out a tent spot, but it's easy to "dent" when in the tarptent as one moves around.

I used my snowpeak cannister stove because it's more efficient for melting snow than my alcohol stove, but I also brought my MiniSith alcohol stove for boiling the water for the freezerbag food. We used the shovel to build a kitchen (just a shelf, really), and then the shovel was the platform for the snowpeak. I put the MiniSith on an aluminum piepan so it wouldn't sink into the snow. Otherwise, nothing much was different than summer backpacking.

The best part about snowcamping is not tracking dirt into the tent. One backpacking friend said my trail name should be Sweep because I was forever sweeping out my tent with my bandanna. I can't abide a dirty tent!

I wanted to do a snow camp this year, and just ran out of time.

However as you said we have had a great snow year, so I am planning a super short overnighter to the Gold creek basin area of I-90 next weekend.

Very safe area with really no avalanche danger. Just go in a few miles, setup camp and see what the snow thing is all about.

I say pick a safe area and give it a shot. Worst case you pack up and come home because is sucks!

Thanks for the input. I will probably go with someone who carries regular equipment. I was trying to avoid the "you idiot, you can't camp in slushy snow with a tarptent/down bag, etc." situation. Sounds like I don't have to worry too much about that as long as I use common sense.

I've never tried using a tarp for snow camping, though I see no reason why you couldn't, especially later in the month when it'll hopefully warm up some. The reason I prefer using a tent is that it increases the comfort level such as wind blockage, added warmth, etc. My double-wall tent (Montbell Monoframe, 2 lbs 10oz) will hold in the heat given off from the tiny flame of a candle lantern and the interior gets suprisingly warm, allowing me to sit in just a t-shirt and read or journal. I use the same down bag that I use in the summer (Montbell SS down hugger, 1 lb 2 oz) with the addition of a VB liner. I also add a GG thinlight to the Nightlight torso pad for additional ground insulation. This is most important as I awake immediately whenever I roll of the pad but can sleep warmly and soundly as long as I'm on it. And leave your stakes at home, branches work better. Happy trails!

I use a GG pad as well, and I figure adequate insulation is one of the big issues. I use a tarptent, so I wonder if condensation might be a problem, even on a clear night. It will be warm in the day (60s) and not too cold at night (40s) but since I'll be surrounded by melting snow, I wasn't sure if things might get really moist inside the tarptent, even with the vents open. Sounds like I'll just have to give it a go (and bring a couple little towels just in case).

Regarding condensation - that's what my bandanna is for when I'm not sweeping out the dirt. I regard condensation as a fact of life and not a problem that needs solving. It's not that much in a tarptent, anyway.

One trick I've learned from this site is to put the closed cell pad OVER the inflatable pad. To me it feels much warmer.

Ross, FWIW I use a tarptent and a down bag for winter snow trips...no problems yet. IMO, and in my area, condensation is unavoidable in the winter, so I just deal with it. I did however, change to a Golite Utopia about half way through last winter, which eliminated the condensation issue (I think due to it's large interior volume) but still stuck with my down bag. I can't comment on the avvy issue, as our biggest mountain is less then 2000 ft. :(

>>The reason I prefer using a tent is that it increases the comfort level such as wind blockage, added warmth, etc. My double-wall tent (Montbell Monoframe, 2 lbs 10oz) will hold in the heat given off from the tiny flame of a candle lantern and the interior gets suprisingly warm, allowing me to sit in just a t-shirt and read or journal.

Interesting that you bring up your Montbell Diamond, Monty. I got away for a quick overnighter this weekend and used a UL summer kit just to see how I would fare. The very light pack was a great energy saver as I was post holing through knee and thigh deep snow. The trade off was the camping last night at 9000'. There was wind much of the night and some rain and a bit of snow. I was fine with my poncho/tarp and bivy but was thinking I'd be a lot more comfortable if I had brought my Montbell Diamond along.

Anyway, the use of a candle lantern sounds like a great idea but I've been concerned about the safety in a tiny tent like the Diamond. A few questions: What kind of candle lantern do you use? How do you hang it? How do you configure the doors to make sure you get adequate ventilation?

Thanks,
Dondo

Hi Dondo! I was away for a few days, so this isn't as timely as it should be. Anyway, the type of candle lantern that I use is the Swiss made Linden Midget, which is the smallest (3 3/4 in ht) and lightest (95 gm) that I'm aware of. I got it years ago at REI but they no longer carry it, only the larger, telescoping and much heavier types nowadays. However, I did come across a knock-off at a "sportsman" type store; you know the type, they sell guns, fishing gear and always have a wall of Cooglan's or Stansport stuff, and the lantern was with the Cooglan's.

The lantern uses a tea light candle, which I learned by sad mishap was not the best, as all the wax liquifies and if bumped scatters wax all over the place. Now I just use a short piece of dripless candle in an empty tea candle tin. As for the configuation, at the apex of the interior of the MB mono are three sewn loops, and I hang the lantern from the center one using a longish piece of double-sided velcro (the bail of the lantern heats up, but not enough to melt nylon, in fact, I can hold the lantern by the bail and it is hot but not uncomfortably so).

In the winter I always unzip an opening at the top and bottom to control condensation, and when using the lantern I open the top a little more to control the CO. The natural chimney effect wafts all that away.
Happy Trails!

Thanks for your descriptions, Monty. I'll check the sportsman's stores for the lightest tea light candle lantern I can find. Failing that, REI now carries one that is only 10 grams heavier than your Linden Midget. It's warming up around here so it won't be needed until the winter. But it's good to know I'll have another trick up my sleeve for keeping warm.

Coghlans Candle Lantern, said to be 90 grams.

I just did a Friday to Saturday overnighter with a friend to what I call Amoeba Lake, near Murphy Lakes off Highway 2. Even though the avalanche danger was high because of the exceptionally warm weather, I knew the route and successfully avoided the avalanche areas.

As I said in my earlier post, there isn't much difference with camping on snow, except, after I weighed my pack with food, fuel, and 2 liters of water and it weighed 18 pounds, then I had to pile on almost another five pounds - 4 snow pegs, a shovel, ice axe, and snowshoes, all of which I used.

What I brought and used and decided I didn't need was one of those GG plastic sheets under the Contrail. I thought maybe the mushy snow would wet through the floor, but it was overkill and just another piece of gear to fuss with.

I tucked pieces of bark under the pole and back posts of my Contrail to keep them from sinking into the snow. The lake was just starting to thaw, so we didn't have to melt snow for water, but the water was like a Slushy and took twice as long to bring to a boil. Beautiful evening, almost a full moon, no bears, no bugs, and no dirt! It was an enjoyable, comfortable little trip.

>>Coghlans Candle Lantern, said to be 90 grams.

Thanks for the link, John. It seems to be just what I'm looking for.

>>Coghlans Candle Lantern, said to be 90 grams.

I found one for $4 at a grocery store in Kanab, Utah. Weight of the lantern alone is 1.9 oz. With the tea light it's 2.4 oz.