Hey everyone! It's me again, with another question about the pros/cons of two pieces of gear.

I was recently inquiring about a two person tent and decided that the lunar duo would fit the bill. Well, my girlfriend has a halfdome so I figured I could save my money and buy a solo tent.

I was looking at the lunar solo and I really like the design. I also love the contrail. I am new to light weight fabric, so I'm not considering 'The One' as a viable option. I want to practice before dealing with spinnaker.

So as I pondered the Lunar Solo it hit me that I could just get a refuge for the same price! The reason it wasn't my #1 2 person choice is because the vestibules are so small. If I'm alone in it though I will have TONS of room! It only weighs 4 ounces more than the lunar solo which isn't a killer for me.

So are there any reasons I shouldn't get the refuge as a solo option? Maybe there is some tidbit of wisdom I'm missing. All I can think of is the fact the the footprint on the solo will be smaller and that it may be more weather worthy (this may not be the case). The weights are so close that I'm not concerened.

So once again, I ask for the wisdom of everyone here to weigh on this issue.

Thanks!

No reason not to choose the Refuge, except maybe for the fact that the vestibule of the Refuge is much smaller than that of the Solo and could bother you if you do not want to put things inside the tent (?)

Edited by svenklingemann on 05/01/2008 12:56:12 MDT.

I only own the Luna Duo and the Luna Solo e but the only difference I see is the floor.
If that does not matter to you...I would go with the Refuge then.
Except I found for me the Duo was so large it felt colder, now that could be just a mind thing, but I feel warmer in the Luna Solo.

The fact of never touching the walls or the top would be a big choice for me, if I was only buying one.
You never have to worry about that in the Duo or I would think the Refuge.
I do hit the Solo at the top and sides at times when moving around.

Found this it may help some on more details with the Refuge

Ron Moak
( rmoak - M)
Re: "Two man shelter"?? on 11/09/2007 07:22:30 MST Reply

Bob,

With the Lunar Solo having a 27.5 sq ft floor area plus a 10 sq ft vestibule, how can Ron claim the Refuge (with only 30 sq ft floor) to be a "two man shelter"?



Exactly what constitutes a 2 person shelter is anyone’s guess. The Refuge’s 90” X 48” floor is 6” narrower than the Duo’s 54” width. With respect to many popular 2 person tents on the market it’s about 3” to 4” narrower. Since someone mentioned that it’s similar to the Rajd, The floor size on the Rajd is 47” wide and 80” long.

One should also take into consideration that the floor size listed on the Refuge is only the actual Silnylon floor. There is a mesh perimeter around the floor. On both ends of the floor the mesh extends another 9” extending the overall length from 90” to 108”. There is also a mesh panel on the long side that extents out up to 12 inches from the side of the floor. So the interior width at the center from door to wall is 60”.

When I look a two person tents, I also take into consideration the overall internal volume. Can two people comfortably sit up without banging into each other or the side of the tent. The Refuge has internal room to spare, especially if you guy out the front and rear walls. With the canopy guyed out, it’s large enough for 4 adults to sit up facing each other without hitting the ceiling or sidewalls. I’d like to see if you can find any other sub 5 pound tent on the market that can make that claim. Now take into consideration that the Refuge weighs 18 or 27 ounces depending upon its canopy style.

The width restriction on the Refuge is due primarily to the maximum 48” width of Cuben Fiber material. We wanted to develop the tent based on the unique properties of this material. There are no seams in the canopy from head to foot. This eliminates any potential weakness caused by seams.

And in the first photo it appears that you can see the sleeping pad right through the rear wall of the tent. Is Cuben a see-through material?



The current crop of Cuben Fiber is fairly translucent. Though it’s not that bad. It’s kind of like looking through the windows in your bathroom. When I last spoke to the people who make the fabric, they were planning on producing it in different colors. Which is pretty simple since you just need to use different color Mylar sheets. I don’t know if different colors will be available when we start our production run.

Edited by AlohaTink on 05/01/2008 13:06:15 MDT.

Great info Gail! That's interesting about the 2 person use and I obviously have no doubts it would fit me alone...

Sven, I wsa thinking that too, but the vestibule should be able to work if I'm alone. I can have stuff push against the mesh and sleep on the other side of the tent I imagine.

I think it really boils down to size of the floor
Solo 36"
Refuge 48"
so there would be plenty of room for your gear and the smaller vestibule would no longer matter.

Plus the Refuge on Sale for $200 helps too.
as well as the fact
it is designed for two people, you never know when you may want to have that option :)

"you never know when you may want to have that option :)"
Actually in that case I would rather have the Lunar Solo ...
LOL
;-)
S.

Heh.. I am being kind of sneaky as far as the refuge being designed for two. I mentioned earlier how my girlfriend has a halfdome and so she says another 2 person is silly and a waste. She doesn't see the reason for a 2 person double wall AND single wall...

Well now I will have a 2 person bought for use as a solo shelter, but I have a feeling that when we go out next (95% of my hiking is with her) the refuge will come along! MUAHAHAHAH!

This is how you convert your S/O everyone! ;-)

What a smart man you are ... :-) My GF did not need to be convinced that the Refuge was a needed addition to the household ... she even paid for half of it!! And it is a Refuge X ... talk about a sign of love and commitment here ...
lucky me!!

Wow, that is lucky Sven! It's nice to have an S/O into hiking huh?

My girlfriend thinks one tent is all we need for now. When I'm rational, it's hard to argue! All I can say is "But baaaaaaabe! This one is WAY lighter!"

The beauty of her argument was how she said "You can spend this money to buy more winter gear and we'll just use the tent we have! This way you'll be more ready to go come winter!"

So it's reasonable, but yeah...I need a tarptent! :)

More is not always better.

If you positively feel claustrophobic inside a solo tent, then yeah, why not get something bigger that's still pretty darn light? But if the solo tent already gives you adequate room, the possible downsides of an even bigger tent are:

1. Weight -- the Refuge is light, but if you don't really need all that space, why carry the added weight?

2. Site selection -- sometimes, it can be hard to find a flat piece of land for your tent. And a bigger site requirement just adds to the difficulty. Also, dual vestibules mean a much wider space requirement.

3. Stability -- Methinks the one-pole Lunar Solo is geometrically better at deflecting the wind.

None of these is a show stopper against the Refuge of course, but just things to ponder about.

Hey Benjamin -

These are the exact issues I was thinking about. The lunar Solo looked better for deflecting wind and I was concerned about finding a good site since I spend most of my time stealth camping. It just seems so silly to spend more money for a solo when the double is right there....

The weight issue doesn't bother me at all. I'm not at the point of caring about 4 oz when it comes to a shelter...Almost there, but the money issue still comes to the forefront. The Refuge is CHEAPER then the Lunar Solo. It's hard to pass up. I have trouble pondering these things. :-(

Edited by arichardson6 on 05/01/2008 14:41:16 MDT.

For my area (NE & Mid-atlantic deciduous woodlands) I can usually find enough space to set up bigger footprint within 20 yards of anywhere. I'd also rather carry a tiny bit more weight (4-9 oz) if it eliminates the worries about running into the sides & top when moving around.

However, I find that pack space is really what becomes my limiting factor... My down sleeping bag only weights 6 oz less than my 3-D bag, but packs up in 2/3 the space. Also, my double wall tent only weighs 1.5 lbs more than a single wall (and has no worries about condensation), but the double wall takes up about double the space.

But by carrying the down bag & single wall tent, my pack fits enough closer to my back that it feels MUCH lighter. I was very suprised how much difference 2-3" less depth and 6-8" less height made. (I was also suprised the down bag & single wall shelter took up that much less room !)

So, I'd recommend checking the "actual packed size" of the shelters you are considering (as oppossed to the stuff sack size, which often seem to be a generic size for all a single manufacturers "lightweight" tents).

Edited by JohnG10 on 05/01/2008 16:15:12 MDT.

If you're that concerned and you can't go somewhere to see them side by side, call Ron at SMD. Order both tents and tell him you'll be returning one after you compare them side by side and make your choice. As long as you don't damage the loser, it should be no problem to return it.

Hmm...That's a good point John. That is the reason I'm intersted in the SMD tents over the Double rainbow and such. I don't like having a pole to carry.

Anyone know of the actual packed size of a refuge and the solo? How can one convey this information accurately? Perhaps this is the poetics of a true gear reviewer :) I suppose I can just strap the shelter to the outside of my pack while on a trail. Otherwise I usually just stuff inside of a garbage bag if the shelter is wet. I don't like wrestling with the stuff sacks, but these are probably the way to gauge size..

Edited by arichardson6 on 05/02/2008 14:38:16 MDT.

Can't speak for the refuge but I often stuff my lunar solo e into a size S (250cc) SpinSack. The stock stuff sack that the solo comes with is a bit larger (I'm guessing 300-350cc or so).

Edited by dag4643 on 05/02/2008 14:31:54 MDT.

"I don't like wrestling with the stuff sacks.."

Andrew,

I used to be a "stuffer and a compressor", but I took the hint offered elsewhere in this forum that stuffing looser, is to pack easier, and more (if desired).

The "nearly rigid" sausage of tent/sleeping bag/clothes sacks creates many unusable voids around them. Pack in bigger sacks, which are moldable, so they can flow into all the holes. Then you end up with more room, making the delta between these two tents insignificant. No wrestling required.

Yeah Greg, I'm with you. That's what I do all the time with my sleeping bag and shelter. I just don't know how to get an "actual packed size" of these tents if not by the stuff sack. I guess maybe this is a silly question, but I was hoping to get an idea of how much more space the refuge would take up when thrown in my pack when compared to the lunar solo. The difference between down and synthetic for example..

I put most of my stuff into my pack without stuff sacks since the stuff sacks create voids.

But to figure out "actual packed size" I look at how much space they use in a stuff sack when packed "medium tight". I calculate cubic inches if the stuff sacks are so different in shape I can't guess which tent has less volume (ie: TT's saugage shaped stuff sack versus everyone elses). Even easier would be for someone who has both to stuff each into the same stuff sack and measure how much length was used.

The problem is you need someone who has handled both since "medium tight stuffed pressure" is so variable that comparing stuffed dimensions from different people can lead you to believe tent A is 20% smaller than B when the exact opposite is really true.

Edited by JohnG10 on 05/02/2008 21:28:54 MDT.

So after some thinking I've decided that the lunar solo is (probably) the shelter that is best for me. I came to this conclusion because I like the way the design handles wind (it seems elegant) and it has a vestibule which will allow me to cook in the rain. I don't think I could get away with cooking in the rain under the refuge vestible. The lunar solo also seems to have a great guy line system to deal with the sag of silnylon and also, that adjustable strap and buckle at the center pole guyline seems like a good feature.

I am 5'8" so I don't think I should have too much trouble avoiding the walls. I was thinking how a bigger tent may mean less condensation as my breath shouldn't have as great an impact, but I don't know how much of an effect my breath would be...Overall I think a bigger tent would just be more roomy and I don't mind being cozy.

I was reading the review right here at BPL (from 2004) and I was wondering about changes. They mention a hook and loop system (they mean velcro right?) for the awning, but I'm most sure this has been changed to a zipper. Are there any other improvements from year to year? Can the walls be pitched closer to the ground now to prevent wind from swooping under and trying to make the tent a kite? Any change in how the tent is pitched now? I'm interested in every upgrade that has happened up to now and any upgrades people feel are missing.

Also, what color is better for stealth camping in the New England region, Green or Grey? I've always had tents that are more colorful, so I don't knwo how to judge this. It seems like they would both be ok, but for some reason I feel like grey may be more stealthy..am I wrong? Anything else I should consider when choosing a color? I guess green may be a nicer color to sit a storm out in...

Also, I know that "The One" is the big thing right now, but I am too scared to deal with spinnaker. It's my first tarptent and I think I should give myself some learning space. I love certain things about the contrail also, but those big sidewalls (seems likely to catch wind) and the way it closes on the feet, not to mention the front entry have me leaning towards the lunar solo.

Thanks for any opinions guys and gals!

Edited by arichardson6 on 05/06/2008 13:52:41 MDT.