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Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Titanium vs. Aluminum on 06/01/2009 00:46:51 MDT Print View

I think Rick summarised it nicely, and i agree with each of these points:

1) pot dimensions and lid design have an effect on efficiency, pot material doesn't.

2) For boiling water there's not a shred of difference.

3) Ti pots and cups are easier to handle and drink out of because the sides and rims stay relatively cool while aluminum cookware heats evenly and fully, i.e., hot!

4) I've never dented a Ti pot and pretty much all my Al pots have acquired dents, bends and the like

I will comment on the conductivity bit to clarify why it does not matter. When the flame temperature under the pot is maybe 1,500 C and the water temperature is maybe 50 C, then whether the temperature gradient across the pot base is 0.5 C or 5 C really does not matter a hoot.

Granted, HAA is cheaper though!

Cheers
PS: I still have an aluminium billy from Switzerland, made around 1950. It still works just fine. >1 mm wall thickness though!

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: Titanium vs. Aluminum on 06/01/2009 22:18:17 MDT Print View

OK, I'm probably going to look like a dunce here, but I'd rather get some good facts rather than to operate on assumptions.

TO THAT END: My understanding is that aluminum pots should be HA so that the aluminum won't get into your food. Am I wacko on that point?

Second question: Just how big is the risk if one uses non HA aluminum cookware? I'm mostly using Ti nowadays, but I still have one large (~2L) non-HA aluminum billy. It's great for snowshoe backpacks, because I can fit a lot of snow in there at a time. My assumption is that if I'm only using it in "one season" (winter) mode, that the risk of negative effects from the Al is low. Is this a reasonable assumption (or has my mind been so devastated by Al that I'm not thinking straight)?

Edited by hikin_jim on 06/01/2009 22:20:24 MDT.

Joshua Billings
(Joshua) - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz,Ca
Aluminum may cause Alzheimer's on 06/01/2009 23:08:20 MDT Print View

There has been some research in this matter.It sounds like it is inconclusive but I have stopped using aluminum cookware at home and while camping.

Here is just one of many links you can look up for yourself. I'm not saying that it does cause it but I never liked aluminum even before I heard of this issue.

http://www.workingcaregiver.com/articles/alzheimers/aluminumandalzheimers

Brian UL
(MAYNARD76)

Locale: New England
Re: Aluminum may cause Alzheimer's on 06/01/2009 23:22:39 MDT Print View

Don't forget that Titanium cook wear is actually an aluminum - titanium blend. Ti pots are not 100% Ti- keep that in mind if you want to avoid aluminum.

Joshua Billings
(Joshua) - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz,Ca
I didn't know that on 06/01/2009 23:24:58 MDT Print View

I'm screwed now. I can't remember what I was about to type.Oh yah, how much aluminum is in the bpl pots sold here on bpl?Roger?

Edited by Joshua on 06/01/2009 23:35:45 MDT.

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: Aluminum may cause Alzheimer's on 06/02/2009 00:01:50 MDT Print View

> Don't forget that Titanium cook wear is actually an aluminum - titanium blend. Ti pots are not 100% Ti- keep that in mind if you want to avoid aluminum.

Yes, but don't Ti pots self anodize with use? At least that's what I've heard.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Titanium vs. Aluminum on 06/02/2009 00:09:50 MDT Print View

> My understanding is that aluminum pots should be HA so that the aluminum won't get into your food.
Nah, it's just easier to clean HAA.

Risk? ZERO.
The whole aluminium/Alzheimers things was a great beat-up. Check with Snopes or an Alzheimers Ass'n. The source was an UN-refereed MSc thesis in which the author found aluminium on brain plaques and claimed that it caused Alzheimers. It turned out that the sample preparation procedure used by the author PUT the aluminium there.

Aluminium is one of the most common elements on the planet. You get vast amounts in your ordinary everyday food, and excrete it out. You use it in your anti-perspirants, and other cosmetics. It is used to clarify your drinking water. We have evolved with it for millions of years.

But there are always journos and freaks who love a scandal.

Cheers

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Titanium vs. Aluminum on 06/02/2009 00:16:06 MDT Print View

I used to eat aluminium pots.
I can't remember how many times this has been raised on BPL. There again, I have trouble remembering most things...

Hikin' Jim
(hikin_jim) - MLife

Locale: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Titanium vs. Aluminum on 06/02/2009 08:03:55 MDT Print View

> Risk? ZERO.
The whole aluminium/Alzheimers things was a great beat-up.


Roger, I thank you. I was always a little hesitant with my old non-HA aluminum cookware, wondering about Al exposure even though I figured my exposure rate was fairly low. Now, I can get my dad's old vintage Al cooking gear off the shelf and use it once in a while. :)

Walter Carrington
(Snowleopard) - M

Locale: Mass.
Aluminum and acid foods. on 06/02/2009 09:55:14 MDT Print View

Acidic foods cooked in non-anodized aluminum pots can pick up quite a bit of aluminum, especially if you store it in the pot overnight. It then has an unpleasant 'metallic' taste. Mostly, aluminum pots acquire a layer of aluminum oxide which is pretty inert.

The whole alzheimer's story turned out to be incorrect.

Michael Fogarty
(mfog1) - MLife

Locale: Midwest
Love my new MLD Ti mug ! on 06/02/2009 11:05:15 MDT Print View

I love my Titanium mugs,pots, and wouldn't even think of going back to Alum.

Rene de bos
(piemel) - F

Locale: SF Bay Area
It's the Budget stupid on 06/02/2009 11:19:26 MDT Print View

The OP mentions that he/she is operating under an extremely tight budget. I am/was in the same situation and got myself some cheap AL Snow Peak pots that were on sale (900 and 1400). I love them because I don't know any any better... the idea of shelling out $35-45 for a mug and even more for a pot is just not going to happen for me personally in the next few months.

Also I think you can do better than the $20 you mentioned for the SP 900 AL pot... should be little below $15 on sale

. Callahan
(AeroNautiCal) - M

Locale: Stoke Newington, London, UK.
Titanium! on 06/02/2009 13:51:41 MDT Print View

Given the choice of packing my HA Trek Kettle or MSR Titan, I take the Titan, noticeable weight difference and a growing preference for titanium being the main reason.

I'd save for the Ti, I find the Snow Peak and MSR Ti pots to be really good.

An economic way of getting Ti cookware is to buy the Snow Peak Ti plate and bowl, which double as cookware really well, my ultralight, minimalist kit is the Snow Peak Ti plate, bowl and 450 single wall mug, which work for cooking and water boiling.

Ali e
(barefootnavigator) - F

Locale: Outside
"Titanium vs. Aluminum" on 06/02/2009 13:58:07 MDT Print View

The msr Steel alpine bowl weighs less than many same sized ti kits and costs 8 bucks. Msr alpine bowl 3.6 ounces and .8 liters vs titan kettle 4.2 ounces .85 liters save 40 bucks adn get a lighter kit. Ali

Michael Fogarty
(mfog1) - MLife

Locale: Midwest
It's the Budget stupid on 06/02/2009 14:41:26 MDT Print View

Deleted.

Michael, please remember that we have minors reading these channels.

Roger Caffin
Online Community Monitor
Backpacking Light

PS: Ali - :-)

Edited by rcaffin on 06/02/2009 16:29:31 MDT.

Ali e
(barefootnavigator) - F

Locale: Outside
It's the Budget stupid on 06/02/2009 14:54:23 MDT Print View

Ok Roger, before I get grounded I had nothing to do with this. :( Ali

Walter Carrington
(Snowleopard) - M

Locale: Mass.
Cheap pots. on 06/02/2009 15:04:49 MDT Print View

For cheap and light pots for boiling water, the IMUSA mugs and grease pot are a couple dollars:
https://www.end2endtrailsupply.com/Imusa_Mugs.html
80mm mug 1.8 oz $2.50
100 mm mug 2.4 oz $3.50
120 mm mug 3.4 oz $4.50.
(no lids, use thin aluminum).
He has the equivalent of the walmart grease pot, but I prefer the IMUSA mugs.
All of these are suitable for boiling water. If you're doing any real cooking, a real pan is better.

cary bertoncini
(cbert) - F

Locale: N. California
aluminium and alzheimer's on 06/02/2009 15:08:20 MDT Print View

everything i've read says it's undecided whether aluminium is a factor or not: the connection has neither been established to be valid nor invalid

regardless, like a lot of other naturally occurring materials, aluminum in certain quantities can be no problem and above a certain point can be a problem

i had a series of thorough tests done a couple years ago & aluminium was among a few things that tested above the normal range, so i'm trying to avoid extra intake as much as possible (aluminium, mercury, nickel, strontium and a couple others i forget now were elevated - calcium & magnesium showed chronically low)

i don't worry about cooking in aluminium every now & again, but for my primary pot, i go with titanium, partly because of the reduced exposure to aluminium

Michael Fogarty
(mfog1) - MLife

Locale: Midwest
Not you, sorry on 06/02/2009 15:18:25 MDT Print View

Quote:
"Ok Roger, before I get grounded I had nothing to do with this. :( Ali"

Ali,
This reply was not intended for you, (read back a few posts)

Sorry

Edited by mfog1 on 06/02/2009 15:19:46 MDT.

Ali e
(barefootnavigator) - F

Locale: Outside
"Titanium vs. Aluminum" on 06/02/2009 15:24:30 MDT Print View

Micheal, I know it wasnt. I was just teasing Roger. Ali