Are the Cocoon Pants going to ship 30 Sep or close? I think I am on the list for the first shipment.
Thanks.

I want to get a pair of lightweight/good insulation pants. Montbell has the Thermawrap pants that will weigh more but they have a zip that should make it possible to get them on/off with shoes on. There are some heavier down pants. As I understand it, the Cocoon, if I order now, may be available in November. That's about the latest I would want to get it.

Does anyone have suggestions or experience in this area?

Edited by craig_shelley on 10/02/2005 12:25:32 MDT.

I have a pair of the new Mont-Bell Thermawrap pants. Mine are a size Large and weigh 11.35oz. They have full side zip's, side pocket zip's, fly w/zip and a snap to close the waist with a draw cord. The side leg and side pocket zip's are the "hidden" style. They also have a snap at the bottom of each leg.

I have the Cocoon pants on order also but I plan to wear the two pants for different types of activities.

This is a good question as to when the first batch will be sent out. I too am waiting as one of the first group.
I find it interesting they charge your account when ordered and it goes beyond the proposed date. Perhaps it is an extra week or two interest on the deposit money.

Am also intrigued
Bill asked the question on the 29th, some 8-9 days ago, and BMW (who obviously monitor all input to these forums) has not seen fit to post a reply
It would appear that we (pre paying premium members) are financing BMW's activities! This would be fine if BMW were up front about this and offered a further discount for us to do this and also a further discount or rebate for non performance to their published delivery times!
Alas we are all pitiful/different/misguided individuals with a FETISH to back pack light and as such, with not many other suppliers to go to, fall prey to the clutches of corporate giants such as BMW.
Hopefully Dr Ryan will see our postings, advise us of a delivery date and ignore our rantings (just like my she who should be obeyed)

Mike, (really, more for others newer to these Forums - even though Mike mentioned this in his post)

i've placed over two dozen orders with BPL, some for out of stock items. i've never liked the fact that they charge me right away for items out-of-stock; even more so for new items, especially when introduction dates are pushed back (something which BPL has no control over - they are at the mercy of their suppliers - they only publish expected dates based upon what they are told by their suppliers).

however, having said this there are several factors that make me feel comfortable doing this.

1. my experience is that the people at BPL have impeccable character. also, if asked, they promptly credit my CC (i did this once, early on before i had much experience with them - a portion of my first order, actually).

2. they eventually deliver the goods, and it is always worth waiting for. the design, quality, and performance always exceed my expectations. learning patience is a good thing for one of any age (esp. me), but that's my "take"/view on ordering delays.

3. they're a small business. ordering a certain number of items ahead of time without orders "in hand" for them, or ordering in response to a person's order & then having that person cancel the order, could pose unacceptable cash-flow risks that are difficult for a small company to endure. i guess maybe people tend to cancel less if they've already paid??? i don't know.

Mike, i could be wrong, but i believe you knew all this already and are basically 'ok' with the situation. you might have just been making a point. i really responded more for any who are new to these Forums.

Andrew,

my understanding is that BWM is NOT a corporate giant. maybe, as far as revenues are concerned, they are a corporate "lilliputian". at least, i don't think that they are in the GoLite category yet - as far as corporate revenues are concerned. hey...if i'm wrong, please set me straight. regardless,...

Dr. J probably has not responded because....

did you notice all of the input from Dr. J a while back when he returned from his 9-day trek? then, suddenly, it stops! why? he was back out again in the field testing gear. he was scheduled to return 6oct - that was yesterday.

yes, there are other people at BPL. however, perhaps Dr. J is the best one to respond to these types of queries. based upon some posts that can be read in these Forums, imagine how readers would take BPL/BMW to task if somewhat inaccurate info was posted by another BPL staff member. no info is better than incorrect info, IMHO. maybe, Dr. J might be making final "tweaks", based upon his latest field trials. certainly, BPL staffers left at home might not be aware of this and so wouldn't want to post older, possibly inaccurate info. i don't know. i'm just talking off the top of my head. i like to give them the benefit of the doubt. please, if you haven't done so already, read my prev. post in this thread, posted earlier this morning - it deals, in part, with the issue of in-stock and introduction dates.

take care,
pj

Let's assume that BPL have 100 backorders for the coccon pans, and that they have banked the money at 5%, after two weeks they would be about $28 richer. My guess is that they have run away with the interest accrued....
Rip offs of this magnitude should not be tolerated, please refer the matter to the highest court in the land

Franco,

hope you're never sitting on the bench as my judge if i decide to dispute a traffic summons!!! you'd probably be called the "hanging judge"...yeah, i know...it's just a parking

ticket...considering that you'd have them cut me down after only 20minutes...right? instead of leaving me on display for my crime for days. :) [note: appreciate your humor;

sorry to subject you to mine.]

ok. i understand your point.

here's something a self-employed friend taught me a long time ago. "the customer always absorbs the cost". his point was that if business was done differently, the cost of

the product/service would be higher. i guess it might also apply here. how so?

well...maybe...

let's say BMW/BPL did it differently, but had to charge $150 or $160 for the Coccoon. how would we feel about that? would that be preferable? i don't know. people will

probably vote one way or the other on this example. i'm just trying to make a point. it's always easier to see another's perspective after we've hiked 20miles in their trail

runners, right?

i'm not thrilled with the BPL/BMW policy, but i think, in part at least, i understand it. at the very least, i enter into any transaction knowing how it might, in a worst case scenario,

turn out, i.e. unanticipated delays. so, i share some of the blame if i get upset over this happening. at least, in my case i knew ahead of time that this eventuality

could occur.

so, assuming as correct all of your 5% scenario, they can keep my 5% interest or charge me 5% more at the outset. if it's interest, it "costs" me less!!
according to my old friend, in this case, that's the way business is done. sorry, i can't be more help. i understand how you feel having been through that on my very first

BPL/BMW transaction some time ago. i also look at it this way: if this is the worst thing to happen to me in life (i've actually had far, far worse happen - more than once!), i

should consider myself blessed. in the grand scheme of things, it's a small matter, and once it's past & you have the Coccoon, you may very likely forget all about it & be

glad you waited for it. at least, that's how i choose to view situations like this. i'm not implying i'm better than you in anyway. your particular circumstances may be diff than

mine & so it may not be as easy to take this view as it is for me. i can understand that. given your circumstances (whatever they are), i might have a very terrible response.

yours thus far has had a good sense of humor about it. again, sorry i can't be more help.

Franco,

Tell me ahout that bank that's paying 5% on short term liquid deposits. That's approx 10 time what banks are paying in my town;-)

If the big players in the industry were delivering the kind of innovative quality goods that BPL does then you'd likely be buying there because economies of scale drive the cost down. Pay in advance is a small price to buy a slot in a small production run of something you *REALLY* want.

But having said that, I agree it'd be much better if BPL clearly announced the practice up front.

It's in the "Policies and Terms" section on the left of this page:

(quoted)

IMPORTANT NOTE ABOUT HOW YOUR CREDIT CARD IS CHARGED FOR BACKORDERED AND PRE-PURCHASED ITEMS: Your credit card is charged upon placing your order, even for backordered and pre-purchased items. The reason for this is twofold:

We have learned from previous experience that many people are more than happy to 'reserve' an unreleased product without paying for it, but then cancel their order, or submit an improper or out-of-date credit card number. The overhead required to manage these transactions is significant, and we'd rather devote our time and energy serving customers that are serious about purchasing the product.
More important, we take credit card fraud very seriously, and do our best to ensure that your credit card information is protected and secure. To that end, we do not store credit card numbers - ever - in our office files, our computer databases, or even our secure Web servers. When you submit your credit card online via our Website, the transaction is authenticated by our transaction processor and payment gateway, and your credit card number is immediately destroyed. When you submit your credit card via fax or mail, we enter your order, and then cross-shred the paperwork that includes your card number. The #1 method of obtaining - and fraudulently using - credit card numbers, is from electronic thieves breaking into online merchant databases and physically stealing computers and files containing credit card info. BackpackingLight.com has a simple and very effective policy endorsed by the highest standards of ecommerce: no credit card storage, period.
If you placed a backorder, or pre-purchased an unreleased product, and decide later that you want to cancel your order - that's certainly not a problem! We are more than happy to do so.

You beat me to it, Daniel.
Now can we move on to more important topics?

and as Sgt. Rock would say---no sniveling!

Edited by kdesign on 10/07/2005 08:26:16 MDT.

Hi All, ran off with the interest for a trip to Yellowstone Park with my Dad for a few days, he was visiting from Seattle. Picked up strep throat and a 104F fever along the way, just now back to life again. I'll be working thru my inbox starting today and thru the weekend, and I'll find out where the Cocoon pants are. I expected them here when I got back, but no boxes...
More soon, Ryan

Hope the interest covered the antibiotics. A healthy Ryan is a happy BMW.
---And since you're back, we have a backlog of questions for you. But I'll wait while you're getting your strength back---I want lucid answers.

Edited by kdesign on 10/07/2005 09:59:04 MDT.

First of all, I was reiterating the question Bill had at the start of this thread. Yes, I made a sarcastic remark as to added interest from deposits initially made 3 months ago. I have no idea how many pre-orders were made, not do I care. It could be 100 or 10,000 for all I know. It doesn’t matter. However, if there were 10,000 orders, the interest would be substantially more than if there were only 100. Maybe that is how BMW can offer free shipping on so many items. Most of us are not behind the scenes to know what policy and procedure is.

The question was asked and no response or explanation was offered. It appears Andrew also was wondering how soon to expect his backordered pair of Cocoon Pants. I for one am going to be camping this coming weekend at 9500 ft. and would like to try them out. If I have not received by then, I will have to wait until my November trip. Oh well, my anticipation will have to wait.

I have purchased enough items from BPL/BMW to know that they always charge at the time of the order and it does not matter if the item is in stock or backordered and I have ALWAYS received what I ordered. I just happened to remember a thread by John at MiniBullDesign concerning BMW purchasing some of his stoves and did not pay right away. Granted they did, but would not pay in advance for the next order, which subsequently was cancelled, or so Tinny puts it. Not sure if this has to do with perhaps selling on consignment or whatever policy is in place?

I am also not one to read every thread or post every day, so I had no idea Dr. J was out testing gear. However, I am sure there are others at BMW besides Ryan that can fill orders or answer concerns. I get a ‘Thank you’ from Stephanie on each order (Thank you by the way Stephanie).

I was not questioning the integrity of BPL/BMW or any of the people affiliated with the group. I was questioning as to when we might see gear that was initially indicated as being shipped “around the end of September”, which could be early or later. There was no sniveling implied, and I for one do not care what Sgt. Rock has to say. I had my fill of Drill Sergeant’s attitudes back in the early 70’s.

So we do find out that Ryan was out and became ill, sorry to hear that Ryan… hope you feel better soon. In general, I hope the answer to the question as to when we may see the Cocoon Pants in the mail is forthcoming.

Edited by mikes on 10/08/2005 12:46:00 MDT.

Hi Mike and others, just a followup to let you know that I have a call into the manufacturer querying about the Cocoon pant delay and have not yet heard back.
Ryan

Mike,

please accept my sincere apologies if i offended you. please understand that was not my intent. personally, i did not feel, and did not want you to feel that my comments were aimed specifically at you, but were more informational for newer readers. I only addressed you, a mistake on my part, as my comments were more appropriate for others in this Thread and was undoubtedly confusing who said what in my post/reply. I also figured you had been around here long enough to "know the ropes", so to speak, and might have been more in a spokesperson role raising the questions/issues for others. I see that it was, perhaps, as i suspected, i.e. that you already knew all that I had to say on the matter.

also, i'm not sure anyone knew Dr. J was out testing gear again (guess it was really more like a trip out with his father - not sure if new gear was actually being tested - this was my assumption based upon an email i had received from the BPL/BMW Cust. Serv. Director that Dr. J was out in the field again).

so, once again, i sincerely apologize for any pain that i may have caused you. i have read your posts for many months now, and have great respect for your knowledge, experience, maturity, and opinions. you are one of just a few whose posts i read immediately. i certainly did not mean to diminish your post any with my reply. for any new to these Forums, i personally consider Mike's contributions and experience far superior to my own and would defer to him on that basis when our opinions differ.

sincerely,
paul johnson

(ps.
i'm with you. i've had enough of being "barked" at by individuals with more stripes on their arms, and don't care to relive those days. don't have many fond memories from that time.)

Edited by pj on 10/08/2005 21:50:14 MDT.

Waiting...waiting...waiting

(N.B. the above is an atempt at sarcasm..don't take it seriously)

>> Waiting...waiting...waiting

Me too. just a note to let you all know I didn't forget about following up. Still haven't heard from the mfr.

That was 5% P.A. not for two weeks!
However change bank.
I asked my bank manager about interest rates and the role of the World Bank in international affairs, also about the Masons and possible UFO invasions,he looked at me as if I was mad and told me that he rather have a pair of BMW Cocoon pants.