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Cuben/Amigo H2O Water Filter Bag/Replacement
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Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Cuben/Amigo H2O Water Filter-Bag Replacement on 09/23/2005 14:45:02 MDT Print View

I am re-posting all my "Make Your Own Gear" projects in a "Thread" of their own. It makes it easier to find.

I had a small piece of the Cuben fabric left over from my Pack Bag and decided to replace the Bag from my ULA H2O Amigo water filter with it. The ULA bag with the fittings removed weighed 1.96oz. The Cuben replacement bag weighed 0.57oz or a savings of 1.39oz. I will replace the ULA stuff sack with one made from the Cuben fabric as I have more scrap.

I will multi-use the tubing from the Amigo on my Platypus bottle and save another 0.23oz.

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Diameter of original is about 24 inches.
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Diameter of Cuben Bag Replacement is about 22 inches.
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I wanted to use a piece of my "Yellow" AirCore Pro Ultralight Dyneema" shelter guyline from BMW for the water bag cord.

The yellow stuff is 3/4" grosgrain folded in half and pressed with a hot iron. I used the yellow so my colors would be the same. I then sewed around the outer edge of the Cuben material with the yellow grosgrain for reinforcement. Then I punched 16 holes in the grosgrain and strung the "yellow" AirCore Pro cord through the holes. I made the two Plastice Tube handles from two 4" pieces of the tubing from one of my feeding tube food bag sets and was done. Most any light weight plastic tubing could be used. As I said above the weight of the water bag went from 1.96oz to 0.57oz. A nice weight savings.

Edited by bfornshell on 03/30/2010 08:53:20 MDT.

R K
(oiboyroi)

Locale: South West US
Nice work/ Cuben Fiber on 09/23/2005 17:39:50 MDT Print View

Hey Bill that is some excellent work. I was wondering what the feel of the Cuben fabric is. It looks almost like plastic. Also, if I remember correctly, you were planning on making a tarp out of Cuben. I am curiuos if you have, how it turned out.

-Roy-

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Cuben Poncho/Tarp on 09/23/2005 18:40:23 MDT Print View

Thanks Roy, Look at the link below. The Poncho/Tarp is toward the bottom of page 2. My first one was made out of material that was 48"wide. My new material is 54" wide and I plan to make another tarp but make it bigger so I can use it with my SUL Silk Hammock.

What does the Cuben material feel like. That is a hard question. If you took some wax paper and wadded it into a ball and then smoothed it out, and did that several times. The Cuben material feels a little like that. You don't get a wax feel however.

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Link to Poncho/Tarp

Edited by bfornshell on 09/23/2005 19:08:54 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Amigo H2O System-w/Katadyn Filter on 09/24/2005 14:16:38 MDT Print View

There was a disscussion on the yahoo group - Backpacking Light yesterday about replacing the Amigo inline filter with a Katadyn Hiker Pro filter and put it inside the Amigo water bag. The Katadyn Hiker-Pro filter was said to filter water faster than the filter that comes with the Amigo. I had looked at the Hiker Pro filter but hadn't bought one to see if/how it could be used with the Amigo H2O Filter set-up.

Today I bought a Hiker Pro filter and it was really easy to covert the Katadyn Hiker Pro filter to my Amigo system. When the water bag has water in it and is held up or hung the filter seems to float upright and filters fine.

If you have an Amigo a look at the pictures should be enough to figure out what I did. If not ask.




Edited by bfornshell on 09/24/2005 21:19:12 MDT.

R K
(oiboyroi)

Locale: South West US
Re: Amigo H2O System-w/Katadyn Filter on 09/24/2005 20:53:37 MDT Print View

Hey Bill, thanks for the fast reply. the tarp looks great and your description of the cuben fabric helped.

Honestly I,m not a big fan of the H2O Amigo, but putting a Katadyn Hiker filter cartridge in the Amigo is a great idea. I have used this cartridge in my hiker's friendly filter and it works well. I hadn't thought to put the two togeather though.

I have an idea I want to share with you. The idea is to insulate the sides and lid of a pot to keep heat from escaping while boiling water. Sort of like a permanet pot cozy. I'm thinking this might increase efficency by preventing heat loss thru the pot . Last night I made a primative version out of foil and wire mesh and ran some informal tests. It seemed to shave about 20-30 seconds off boil times. I think if better material are used results might be turn out more positive. What do you think? Anyone?

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Re: Amigo H2O System-w/Katadyn Filter on 09/25/2005 00:58:26 MDT Print View

Roy,

you wrote:

>>"not a big fan of the H2O Amigo, but putting a Katadyn Hiker filter cartridge in the Amigo is a great idea"

i'm wondering, when you get a spare moment, if you could elaborate a bit on this statement of yours, please. i'm interested in understanding why. not saying your statement is wrong. i just want to understand the reasons, i.e. what thoughts were running through your mind. i am already familiar with the difference in specs and construction between the two filter elements.



Bill,

as always, i'm a big fan. may i have your autograph? how much have you used the Hiker Pro/CubenAmigo combo? do you find the lack of a prefilter and non-backflush/clean capability of the HikerPro filter a drawback? especially want to know: does the naked HikerPro filter clog readily without the prefilter? when you get a spare moment, please reply & let us know. Katadyn makes their "Camp" filter, as they call it, in a manner somewhat similar to your CubenAmigo - their bag is much larger than the Amigo, however (~2.5gal, if i recall correctly). i beileve Katadyn encases the HikerPro filter cartridge in some type of housing. don't know if this housing also functions as a prefilter in the Katadyn. also, this housing may more easily allow cleaning. here's a link something that purports to be a: Katadyn Siphon Replacement Cartridge for Katadyn Camp Filter (it costs as much as the whole Katadyn Camp Filter - at least on the Campmor website)

if pre-filtering is deemed necessary due to the state of the water in someone's area, couldn't the naked HikerPro filter cartridge be wrapped in, let's say..., cheese cloth, for instance. it's light and would both prefilter and allow removal for cleaning. any merit to this suggestion? or, is it just another ill conceived concept from the friendly folks at "Bad Ideas are Us" (pj - proprietor)?

Edited by pj on 09/25/2005 01:02:17 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Katadyn Filter for the Amigo on 09/25/2005 02:04:16 MDT Print View

Hi Paul, The Campmor item number for the replacement Hiker Pro Filter is 81918. I think the price is $34.95. What it doesn't show you is the "Removable Filter Protector" that comes with the replacement. It is in 2 parts. 1- is a Protector Screen that you wrap around the filter and 2 is a piece of flexible netting that you slip over the cartridge to hold the screen in place. When the filter works slow you take off the netting and screen and clean the screen. The replacement kit gives you a sponge to use to clean the screen. If you can take a look inside the box for the replacement filter you will see quick what I am talking about.

When I first got the Amigo I had removed the on/off thing and replaced it with a pinch clamp thing from the tubing on a hospital bag. This saved me a few grams and gives me a faster filter flow than the on/off thing that came with the Amigo. This is an easy fix for a faster flow rate. Since the bag on the Katadyn is bigger the flow rate is more than the smaller bag on the Amigo. I still got 16oz per minute on my first test. I could make a larger bag for the Amigo if I need to filter water for more than just me.

This was very easy to make. With the hose, fittings and filter I could turn a Wal Mart bag or a heavy duty Ziploc "Dry Bag" into a water filter. I might want to double bag the Wal Mart bag for a little extra strength. Sunday the day for the Wal Mart water filter bag.

I just put the Hiker Pro filter together this afternoon so I haven't used it out in the wild yet.

Edited by bfornshell on 09/25/2005 02:08:57 MDT.

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Katadyn Filter for the Amigo on 09/25/2005 02:56:15 MDT Print View

Bill,

many thanks for the swift reply. checked out the Campmor item. looks like the "fexible netting" is not in place, only the "Protector Screen". at least, i hope that's right.

good idea on replacing the on/off valve with the "pinch clamp". i'm going to do the same with my ULAwaterAmigo. guess there's too much head loss through the valve as compared to the medical "pinch clamp" - makse sense since the ID of the valve fittings need to have a smaller diameter than the ID of the tubing (in order to fit into the tubing). know i've got some "clamps" laying around in the basement. (BTW, for the "shade-tree" mechanics out there, the medical tubing makes part of a great "one-man" automotive brake bleeding kit - tube goes into a 2L soda bottle to catch the brake fluid).

i'm a bit confused by one statement, viz "still got 16oz per minute". are you saying that even with the HikerPro & the pinch clamp, there was no improvement in flow from the Amigo?

R K
(oiboyroi)

Locale: South West US
Re: Re: Re: Amigo H2O System-w/Katadyn Filter on 09/25/2005 04:57:51 MDT Print View

Hey Paul,

To awnser your question and elaborate on my comments earlier... I dont really like the H2O Amigo for two reasons, one of which may just be a faulty filter element. The first reason is because I found the water bag a little difficult to fill. If I were pulling water from a lake or other non flowing source I would have to submerge the bag with my hand to get it full (sinylon will just float on top if not). Normally that wouldn't be an issue but when its cold (like 5:30 am when I get up) my hands get miserable. I've tried to drag the bag across the water to fill it, but putting any tension on the handles will close it up and much less water will enter. I think by having a small weight in the bag (the filter element)it would help submerge the bag with out me having to push it under, thus keeping my hands dry and warm, which I think is a great idea. Now, I am open to the idea that I may be misusing the Amigo and if someone has a technique that works, please let me know. Secondly, the Amigo I have filters SLOW. I takes about a half hour to fill two liters. I checked the prefilter and shut-off valve and tubes and they were in perfect condition. My only assumption is that it is the filter element. I have used the Katadyn Hiker filter cartridge in my Hikers Friend System and know that it filters very quickly, which again i think is a great idea. From my experience it will fill a liter in about a minute or so. For what its worth, I perfer my good ole' Hikers Friend System.

Richard Nelridge
(naturephoto1) - M

Locale: Eastern Pennsylvania
Amigo H2O System-w/Katadyn Filter on 09/25/2005 05:26:37 MDT Print View

Roy,

Unless I am mistaken, aren't you comparing a mechanical water filter system (the Hiker) versus a gravity feed system (the Amigo)?

Rich

R K
(oiboyroi)

Locale: South West US
Re: Amigo H2O System-w/Katadyn Filter on 09/25/2005 05:36:00 MDT Print View

Hey Rich,

No, I was comparing two gravity-fed systems the H2O Amigo and the Ray-Way Hiker's Friend.

-Roy-

Richard Nelridge
(naturephoto1) - M

Locale: Eastern Pennsylvania
Amigo H2O System-w/Katadyn Filter on 09/25/2005 05:39:19 MDT Print View

Roy,

OK, makes more sense now.

Rich

Edited by naturephoto1 on 09/25/2005 05:39:59 MDT.

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Amigo H2O System-w/Katadyn Filter on 09/25/2005 06:16:00 MDT Print View

Roy,

many thanks for the swift reply. good info.

so, all we have to do is temporarily weigh down the water exit point of the Amigo. real quick off the top of my head: stones in a bandana? i'll come up with something better once i wak up & put the thinking cap on. either that, or much more likely, Bill will figure somethin' out before me.

slow filter. recently rcv'd mine & haven't used it yet. qualitatively speaking, mine flowed real well when i was performing the initial back-flush. had very little water flowing out of the faucet; don't know the pressure, nor did i capture the outflow, so can't give any quantitative estimates. 15min per L. is way too slow. it's advertised as much faster & i've heard others have faster flow (viz., 16oz per min).

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Cuben/Hiker Pro Water Filter-5.61oz on 09/27/2005 14:56:33 MDT Print View

Home Made Gravity Feed Water Filter- 5.61oz

Back to the Hiker Pro for a moment. I just weighed my filter. I had to wait till it dried out. It weighs 3.62oz on my gram scale.

But as I was looking at the filter I had to ask myself why do I needed all the extra plastic around the screw part (Out-end). Why not cut off the extra plastic. I also removed the O-ring.

Stock Hiker Pro - 102.5gr/3.62oz
Cut Down Hiker Pro - 85gr/3.0oz


My Home-Made Water Filter:

Cuben Water Bag - 0.54oz
Hose's etc - 2.07oz
Modified Hiker Pro Filter - 3.0oz
==========================
Total Weight - 5.61oz

Weight of stock (Gravity Feed) Amigo H2O Water Filter - 8.82oz
Weight of stock (Gravity Feed) Katadyn Base Camp Water Filter - 13oz






Note: I use an Orikaso Flat Fold cup to fill my water bag. I carry the cup anyway and it keeps me from possible damage to the filter bag.

Edited by bfornshell on 03/09/2011 07:35:00 MST.

Tom Clark
(TomClark) - MLife

Locale: East Coast
Water Filter Bag on the AT on 09/27/2005 15:17:15 MDT Print View

Have you folks tried these types of water filters on the east coast (e.g., on the AT), where the springs can often be low and there's usually lots of sediment? Along much of the PCT or JMT it seems like a great option. I have to wonder if:

- the filter gets clogged too quickly
- it's more work than it's worth to fill the bag from a small seep with only two hands.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Cuben/Hiker Pro Water Filter-5.61oz on 09/27/2005 15:29:02 MDT Print View

Almost all my hiking is on the East Coast (AT) area. That is why I use the cup to fill my filter bag. Also the Hiker Pro Filter has a piece of removable fine screen to catch the mess and is very easy to remove, clean and replace.

Vick Hines
(vickrhines) - F

Locale: Central Texas
Re: Cuben/Hiker Pro Water Filter-5.61oz on 09/27/2005 16:55:05 MDT Print View

Bill,
Where do you get Cuben?

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Cuben/Amigo H2O Water Filter Bag/Replacement on 09/27/2005 17:41:22 MDT Print View

I buy my Cuben material direct from Cuben Fiber Corp. http://www.cubenfiber.com. Phone number 1-480-641-0438. What I use is their product number CTO.6k.08 and the last that I got cost $13.40 a yard.

Vick Hines
(vickrhines) - F

Locale: Central Texas
Re: Cuben/Amigo H2O Water Filter Bag/Replacement on 09/28/2005 18:13:38 MDT Print View

Bill,
It looks as if CFC has changed its product codes. I don't see a CTO.6K.08, although there is a CN1K.08 for ultralight spinnakers at 0.2 oz per sq.yd. I presume that's what you meant. These folks obviously are not in the selling business. I had to email for a price list.

Another question, if you don't mind: I'm trying to get my hammock weight down to rock bottom (poor choice of words), and am planning to make the fly of Cuben - unless I can get a source on Nano fabric.... My standard hammock fly (1.3oz silpreg, 7 oz.) is 8X10 on the diagonal with radical catenaries on the bias - the old Moss parawing or hyperbolic parabaloid. The 10 ft dimension ensures coverage by a symetrical fly when sleeping diagonally in the hammock, and makes the fly more practical when the hammock is not practical. The hyperbolic parabaloid distributes load so evenly that noisey fabrics quieten down.

My question is: Since Cuben has no bias, and some of its bias strength is attributed to the Mylar film, do you think it will work in a hyperbolic parabaloid?

Edited by vickrhines on 09/28/2005 18:15:48 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Cuben Fiber on 09/28/2005 19:03:32 MDT Print View

Vick, The product code I posted is the lightest they are making at this time and the number is good. My guess is the web site is not current.

The way I get mine is first a phone call to ask about availablity and what is the lightest thay have on hand. It is the product code I posted. Then I tell them how much I want and sometimes they can give me the cost over the phone and sometimes they send an email. I then send a ckeck - no credit cards. When the check clears for them they ship.

I know a company that wanted to retail their material but their price from Cuben was the same as mine. I don't know if the company will try and retail any since they would have to charge about $22 a yard.

I have an order in to Cuben now and will use some of it to make a larger tarp for my hammock. I have an old moss Heptawing and will use it for a pattern but make it a little longer. I know the Cuben material will work for a Cat Tarp. I talked to a sail maker about the shape I wanted to make tarp.

The Cuben material is woven with warp and weft threads. Then the laminant is put on or something like that. I don't know that much about "Bias" but think it must have since it is woven. The weave is not tight.

What kind of hammock do you have? My guess is it is a HH. I have a custom silk ,made by Ed Speer, hammock that weighs about 14oz. I am about to make a lighter hammock and not sew velcro on the sides for the bug net. My current hammock has 17 foot of velcro sewn on it for its bug net.