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The Carbon Flame War
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David Lutz
(davidlutz)

Locale: Bay Area
"The Carbon Flame War" on 09/30/2010 15:17:00 MDT Print View

Ben - I'm pretty much on board with your program there - "Vote Ben".

I've been to two "Tea Parties" held in my town, but I can't say that I am familiar with their agenda. I'm not even sure there is an official "agenda", I think it's more diverse than that.

I specifically went to look for evidence of racism and "anger". I saw neither. By the way - they also hold a very organized, polite and tidy rally!

I have a hunch that if you walked around and showed your program to ten random tea party attendees, eight of them would support you.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Nice, Ben on 09/30/2010 17:07:24 MDT Print View

Ben,
What's truly special about that is you didn't just give him X amount of $$ for school. You opened more doors than money can buy for that young man, as well as the people his life my influence.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: on 09/30/2010 17:33:14 MDT Print View

Thanks, everyone. When my 'son' first told me that he got a full scholarship to Cambridge, I felt positively giddy for weeks!! I think it's the same feeling parents get when they see their kids accomplishing something. :)

OK, enough gloating from me, now back to the CARBON FLAME WAR!!

I'm thrilled that some of you agree with my ideas. Socialism has its place -- it's humane in many ways -- just as long as we don't harm anyone by making them dependent. So as posted above, I've been thinking about a lot more capitalism on the revenue side -- and just a little more socialism on the spending side. We can have a much better -- meaning both more competitive and more compassionate society than what we have now...

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: on 09/30/2010 17:40:29 MDT Print View

I wonder how many people actually understand Socialism and its implications to a society. So many people have an immediate and negative reaction to the word that I have to wonder if some of it comes from post-WWII (mostly Cold War era) politics and propaganda. Perhaps this country was "taught" Socialism was a completely bad thing during those times, and none of the potential benefits from select Socialist ideals were ever properly explored.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
The other Ben on 09/30/2010 17:45:34 MDT Print View

Franklin that is. He was an advocate of capitalism and the "trickle down" effect it would have on the poor.

Regarding social welfare he said,

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer."

Franklin also considered charity a virtue and donated often to worthy causes.

I present this because he was one of the founding fathers of the U.S. with input for the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. It is important to consider the intent of our forefathers.

BTW he was also an advocate of abolishing slavery starting at least 50 years before the Constitution.

David Lutz
(davidlutz)

Locale: Bay Area
"The Carbon Flame War" on 09/30/2010 17:49:20 MDT Print View

Ben-

Congrats on your student, that's really something. We haven't done anything like that, but we host foreign students whenever we can (one arrives tonight) and it is very rewarding.

I want to add something about the Tea Party - your comments about what they stand for make me wonder if you have given them a fair shake.

With all due respect, if you think that might be true, please take a look beyond the headlines, negative publicity and the fringe element.

You might be surprised.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: "The Carbon Flame War" on 09/30/2010 19:14:06 MDT Print View

David:

Thanks! And curious, where is your current foreign student coming from?

Some of the Libertarian philosophy I actually agree with -- but right now, I see the TPyers as a hodge podge "mob" of convenience -- united in their destructiveness rather than offering anything constructive.

Everyone can talk a good talk about wanting a smaller, more streamlined, and more "hands off" government. But no TP leadership has suggested eliminating programs or benefits for the middle class! I understand 90% of TPyers are white, middle class Americans with jobs -- who loath the idea of extending health benefits to the poor. Do these TPyers realize that by forcing their employers to pay for their benefits, they are actually encumbering their companies from competing more effectively in world markets? Doubt it -- and doubt they even care -- just as long as they and their families are covered!!

Come a crisis -- any crisis -- and most of these so-called TP individualists will expect their government to "do something" and "make things right" -- and be quick with it too!!

Funny, nobody except nobody wanted our government to play a smaller role when the BP "crisis" broke...

Edited by ben2world on 09/30/2010 19:24:38 MDT.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Poor people have nobody but themselves to blame on 09/30/2010 20:27:31 MDT Print View

It's relatively easy to be John Gault or Horatio Alger in the US or, to a lesser degree, in some other developed country in that with hard work, ability, and a bit of luck one can indeed succeed, often beyond their wildest dreams. However, in a less developed and relatively less justly governed country, the odds are overwhelmingly stacked against the poor. I can't count the times I've wondered in my travels to India and elsewhere whether that kid bent over a plow didn't have the potential of an Einstein, knowing all the while that he'd spend the rest of his life contemplating the bung-hole of the bullock in front of him, no matter how hard he worked. I doubt "the other Ben" had places like these in mind when he made his observations about the poor. It's something worth keeping in mind in this country as we watch the middle class being gutted and access to the quality education necessary to rise in this complex society increasingly becoming the province of the wealthy. To all of you John Gaults out there I would caution against killing the goose that laid the golden egg. All of those lazy poor aren't going to go quietly into the night when welfare, medicaid, ADFC, etc are cut off. Besides, you are always going to need someone to clean your toilets, mow your lawns, do your laundry, babysit your kids and all the miscellaneous tasks that you don't have time for. Not the kind of job someone with an MBA from Harvard will sign up for, but necessary nonetheless. It distresses me to see the poor and less capable so cavalierly dismissed. There should be a place for people of all abilities in this country. We can do better than this.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Poor people have nobody but themselves to blame on 09/30/2010 23:31:10 MDT Print View

It's relatively easy to be John Gault or Horatio Alger in the US or, to a lesser degree, in some other developed country in that with hard work, ability, and a bit of luck one can indeed succeed, often beyond their wildest dreams. However, in a less developed and relatively less justly governed country, the odds are overwhelmingly stacked against the poor.
------------------------------------------------------------
Tom,

The posts have been about the opportunities in the US. So we agree right?

BTW, it is Galt :)

If the citizens in poor countries suffer due to their government...

"it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government" (Hmm, sounds familiar).

We already built the blue print for them. And some of my relatives died for those rights during the revolutionary war.


------------------------------------------------------------
Besides, you are always going to need someone to clean your toilets, mow your lawns, do your laundry, babysit your kids and all the miscellaneous tasks that you don't have time for.

Tom,

My wife and I do all those tasks ourselves. Except mow the lawn. I did that until I was 37. Then I hired a gardener in 1987. He is a first generation legal immigrant from Mexico. He now owns two houses, a fleet of trucks, drives a Lexus, has many employees, put his kids through college, his son served in the US Air Force in Iraq, he has little debt, still speaks broken English, and will be retiring soon. I think it has been a fair business arrangement. Along with all his other customers, I have helped support his family for 23 years. He has never been on the public dole. He has crews that service most of his customers, but he still does my lawn, because I was one of his first customers. He had an opportunity, and he maximized it with hard work. He sets the price for his services. It is a fair trade for both of us. He is proud to be an American.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Cold summer in SoCal on 10/01/2010 01:46:33 MDT Print View

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/09/las-summer-ends-with-a-chill-it-was-the-coldest-in-decades.html

Jeff Antig
(Antig)

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Cold summer in SoCal on 10/01/2010 03:43:58 MDT Print View

113 degrees is not my idea of cold.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Re: Cold summer in SoCal on 10/01/2010 04:00:54 MDT Print View

Hi Jeff. More detail please. When was it 113? for how long?

.JWA airport july 2010
Source NOAA

It looks like the coast and areas west of the mountains were particularly cool this summer, due to a blocking low persisting as El Nino gave way to La Nina.

Edited by tallbloke on 10/01/2010 04:48:09 MDT.

Jeff Antig
(Antig)

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: Re: Cold summer in SoCal on 10/01/2010 04:56:59 MDT Print View

A couple days ago. It's been hitting over 100 (or close to 100 on some days) for several days now. The 113 degrees was a record high as well. We haven't had such a high temperature in like 10 years. I'm about ready to move to Seattle.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Cold summer in SoCal on 10/01/2010 07:31:12 MDT Print View

What is your locale?

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cold summer in SoCal on 10/01/2010 08:08:22 MDT Print View

Los Angeles had a high temperature of 113F on Sept 25. It was a record high for that day. But, the entire summer was cooler than average for southern California this year. During the winter we had higher than normal rainfall.

Also the deserts were cooler than normal this year.

Weather temperatures are cyclical. Without doing research, the 1990s and 2000s in the desert I live in (so Calif) have been cooler than the 1970s and 1980s.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Cold summer in SoCal on 10/01/2010 10:37:32 MDT Print View

Yep -- this has been one cool summer here in So Cal -- with a few very hot days in early June -- and again last week. (113F on my thermometer as well last Monday). Now, it's back to pleasant again.

What did I do that Monday? I went to the public library at around 2pm, sat out in the non-air conditioned patio area to better absorb the heat, and read my Southeast Asia guidebooks. I'll be traveling there in 2 weeks. It will be very hot and very humid over there. I figured I may as well start acclimatizing to the heat. :)

Edited by ben2world on 10/01/2010 10:40:29 MDT.

Rick Dreher
(halfturbo) - MLife

Locale: Northernish California
Re: Cold summer in SoCal on 10/01/2010 11:18:23 MDT Print View

FWIW it was the alltime record high for LA, not just for the date. We knocked off a record for the day, locally, but didn't come anywhere near the alltime high. The smog was worse than the heat.

Finally cooling off new, thankfully.

LaNina is forming, very early and very strong. Traditionally they push the winter storms northward so California may be back to the drought conditions of '07-'09 after our one-year reprieve. Stay tuned.

Cheers,

Rick

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Re: Cold summer in SoCal on 10/01/2010 11:29:58 MDT Print View

Rick:

Count on drought this winter. I just got a new roof put on. Now, it'll never rain! :)

Rick Dreher
(halfturbo) - MLife

Locale: Northernish California
Re: Cold summer in SoCal on 10/01/2010 13:15:43 MDT Print View

Aw jeez Ben, you've done it now! :-)

Rick

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
SLACKERS!! on 10/01/2010 21:07:56 MDT Print View

C'mon you guys -- just 20 more posts and we hit 1000!!!