The Carbon Flame War
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Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War on 09/21/2010 16:19:09 MDT Print View

Well, there's nothing 'flat' about a good Guinness or Kilkenny, so as usual sweeping generalisations always fall short of the truth (including beliefs about CO2 and global warming).

I realise CO2 is not itself a 'pollutant', but all the things we do to reduce manmade CO2 emissions also reduce other, real, pollutants. It's a win-win for humans and many other biota, plants aside.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: The Carbon Flame War on 09/21/2010 16:53:09 MDT Print View

Professional horticulturalists up the co2 concentration in their greenhouses to around 3 times the current atmospheric level in order to improve yields.

Plants require less water when co2 is higher.

Orchids switch on around 300 more genes when the level goes above 500ppm.

The Earth was far greener when co2 level were 20 times higher 550 million years ago.

Trees suffer when the level falls below 250ppm.

Sulphur is emitted by volcanos in huge quantities. The slopes of volcanos are often rich and fertile soils.

Re-examine all your preconceptions and 'recieved wisdom' on the matter.

Rick Dreher
(halfturbo) - MLife

Locale: Northernish California
Re: The Carbon Flame War on 09/21/2010 17:44:45 MDT Print View

Noted: Your speaker's fee and travel stipend have been approved. You may pick up your packet under "Vuvuzela" at the registration table.

http://www.galileowaswrong.com/galileowaswrong/

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
re: Carbon Flame War on 09/21/2010 18:06:43 MDT Print View

Two links to readings that are only for scientists that continue to follow this thread...

Source of heat that is difficult to find
http://www.creationists.org/dinosaurs-humans-coexisted-flying-creatures.html

But it's gotta be somewhere
http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/video-audio/664-ask2009-001-Where-Is-the-Center-of-the-Universe-

Just kidding - I love this thread : )

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War on 09/21/2010 18:21:20 MDT Print View

Not much left but derision eh Rick? Take a leaf from John Holdren's book and rebrand the failing product.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War on 09/21/2010 19:37:23 MDT Print View

Hi Rick and George

Mind bending! Awsome.
Only in America ...

Cheers
(I bet the sponsors are laughing all the way to the bank.)

Edited by rcaffin on 09/21/2010 19:39:41 MDT.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War on 09/22/2010 09:53:02 MDT Print View

"Only in America"

Yeah, some strange things here -- but Caltech is part of America too -- and just a 5-min. drive from my house.

Speaking of center -- what is the central theme of this thread anyway?? :)

Andrew Lush
(lushy) - MLife

Locale: Lake Mungo, Mutawintji NPs
Re: The Carbon Flame War on 09/22/2010 19:21:52 MDT Print View

>> Speaking of center -- what is the central theme of this thread anyway?? :)

The central theme of this thread and its true purpose are: to be the first thread to reach 1000 posts.

And we are now 82.8% along the way to realising this lofty purpose.

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War on 09/22/2010 19:54:52 MDT Print View

If takes 1000 post to resolve this issue, then we must continue.


carbon


On this last day of summer, I was alarmed at the orangeness of the moon. Has all the its cheese melted?

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War on 09/22/2010 20:12:24 MDT Print View

Well, if the sole intention of this thread is to reach 1000 posts, then I'll keep adding my contribution.

Does an orange moon cause earthquakes, or global warming, or torrential rains over Pakistan, or miners to be trapped in Chile, or gas pipes to explode in San Bruno?

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War on 09/23/2010 09:32:28 MDT Print View

I don't know about orange moons, but blue moons seem to like watching me standing alone, and for some reason they've got it in their minds that I don't have a dream in my heart. I do. I'm just not vocal about it.

It kinda creeps me out.

Bruce Tolley
(btolley) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Carbon Flame War on 09/23/2010 10:05:08 MDT Print View

Oops.

I joined the wrong thread. I though you all were discussing carbon [fiber] fRames.

And how much lateral stress does it take to break a carbon pole?

Bruce

Tony Beasley
(tbeasley) - MLife

Locale: Pigeon House Mt from the Castle
Re: Re: Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War on 09/23/2010 15:19:57 MDT Print View

>Does an orange moon cause earthquakes, or global warming, or torrential rains over Pakistan, or miners to be trapped in Chile, or gas pipes to explode in San Bruno?

I am not sure about the above but I have seen the influence of the moon phases and the alignments of the planets have on backpacking stove performance. If the moon can influence stoves then maybe the color of moon can change our weather too.

Just my2cworth

Tony

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: The Carbon Flame War on 09/24/2010 02:17:59 MDT Print View

New Zealander Ken Ring wrote a nice book on forecasting weather by the moon. Few people realise the Moon's gravity raises tides in the atmosphere as well as the sea.

Spaceweather does affect the global electrical circuit too, which affects the levels of ionisation in the air. This affects the vaporisation rate of stoves. ;-)

There is also some good statistical evidence to support the thesis that planetary alignments induce the production of big solar flares, which buffet the Earth's magnetosphere. This causes electrical storms which affect microelectronics and can even blow out big energy ditribution transformers too. So not even your electric hob in the kitchen is immune.

Edited by tallbloke on 09/24/2010 05:56:17 MDT.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War on 09/24/2010 02:30:18 MDT Print View

An interesting new paper shows Arctic ice was at a greater extent in the C20th than for most of the last 9000 years.

http://bprc.osu.edu/geo/publications/mckay_etal_CJES_08.pdf

For more detail on the last 150 years, the best we have is CRUtemp's best guess at sea surface temps for 70 to 90 degrees north from 1840. This shold tell you why Arctic sea ice has been declining since the start of the modern satellte record in 1979:

.arctic sst

One of the most interesting aspects for me is the regularity of the periodic warmings and coolings of the Earth's climate. This speaks of an extra-terrestrial origin for the forces affecting temperature on Earth. Solar fluctuation being the obvious main contender. But why does the sun's output fluctuate on a periodic basis? I've been working on trying to answer that question.

Edited by tallbloke on 09/24/2010 02:51:49 MDT.

Jason Elsworth
(jephoto) - M

Locale: New Zealand
Ken Ring on 09/24/2010 03:17:01 MDT Print View

Ken Ring was on the radio the other day claiming to have predicted the Christchurch earthquake.

If we can bring the moon into this thread then we should make a 1000 posts easy - faked moon landings, hollow moon or artificial moon anyone.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: The Carbon Flame War on 09/24/2010 04:49:56 MDT Print View

At least it's the "Carbon" Flame War, and not the "Fiber Glass" or "Aircraft Grade Aluminum (aluminium)" Flame War...That being said,the fiber of this thread has remained remarkably flexible despite carbon's reputation for easily snapping.

Moonbeams are the lightest structural elements in existence... holding up the moon ain't easy, especially drunk, smokey, orange gibbous moons with bloated bellies standing upon motes of limelight. Once in a blue moon it all comes crashing down, and you feel nauseous from the sudden impact of reality.

There, another post added... the journey of a thousand posts starts with...

Edited by butuki on 09/24/2010 05:01:02 MDT.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War on 09/24/2010 05:54:51 MDT Print View

There George, see what you've started? :-)

The Double Harvest Moon brings 'em all out howlin'. :-))

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War on 09/24/2010 18:24:40 MDT Print View

Rog said: But why does the sun's output fluctuate on a periodic basis? I've been working on trying to answer that question.

I for one appreciate your effort.

Also...

I find it interesting to consider our human existence over thousands of years and how geography and climate relate to it. There was a recent PBS that discussed the Neanderthal genome. Neanderthals were simple folk, but lasted about 200,000 years. That's about twice as long as we've had a go at it.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/becoming-human-part-3.html

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War on 09/24/2010 18:29:02 MDT Print View

>>> There George, see what you've started? :-)

>>>> The Double Harvest Moon brings 'em all out howlin'. :-))

Breathe deep the gathering gloom,
Watch lights fade from every room.
Bedsitter people look back and lament,
Another day's useless energy spent.
Impassioned lovers wrestle as one,
Lonely man cries for love and has none.
New mother picks up and suckles her son,
Senior citizens wish they were young.
Cold hearted orb that rules the night,
Removes the colours from our sight.
Red is grey and yellow white.
But we decide which is right.
And which is an illusion?


- Moody Blues