dan m, while I admire your patience and perseverence, there's no bigger waste of time than arguing with denialists. It took a long time for the 'truth' that the world is flat and at the center of the universe to finally bend, then break. And that time was filled with probably thuosands of pages of drivel of equal value. I don't bother reading denialists anymore, too much is happening out here in reality to waste that time, and you can rest assured that time is truly wasted, there is zero chance of communication. When I want intelligent climate change analysis I check out realclimate.org, those guys are good at it, not, as is the case with denialists, dabblers (at best) or total charlatans (as the norm). Just as with conspiracy theorists, 'reason' here is used merely to construct the denial, that's why it's so flexible, as the last batch of 'facts' fades from view, new ones are grabbed and inserted into their stead, with nary a whisper of complaint for the old gray matter doing this shuffling. As opposed to real science, which actually builds up data and knowledge then forms conclusions based on that. That's why science per se refused to officially sanction what was obvious to common sense for decades, correctly so, the facts were not in, now they are. Roger, spare your breath, I really don't read guys like you, life is too short, there are professionals out there with time to track the actual reality, which following the general path of of, oh, cr@p, our worst case predictions were too conservative. The game is too big at this stage to expect humans to actually modify their behaviors, that would require change and sacrifice, hard things to negotiate when you are sold greed and other such non-virtues as social virtues. Wasting time at this stage reading such drivel and blather is a poor use of a college education, and yes, that's an ad hominum, but deserved. I agree, I don't want to seee this kind of garbage here, but then again, it's on chaff, and I never view chaff, except gby chance today, so I guess who really cares. Now my method is to say what I have to say when I know I'm talking to someone I know has zero interest in actual communication, then let them babble all they want after that, makes no difference to me, I just ignore it.
But I really do somewhat understand the instinct to preserve the norm one knows and understands, change isn't easy to handle, especially when that change will require huge alterations in behavior. I don't expect that type of change to happen, it's just too radical for our kind at this point in history, which is fine, start a ball rolling down hill like we have and it's hard to stop it, it's just somewhat sad to see people spend so much energy trying to deny it's rolling, doesn't really do anyone any good. Since the tipping points are approaching fast, a few more bytes of online chatter will sadly do nothing to change the facts, so I think it's better to just find more positive avenues if one actually has real passions in this area, bpl isn't one of them as far as I'm concerned. But ideologues always believe they have the truth at their hands, it's not the first time expanding collections of facts have forced prevailing ideologies to bend, andn it won't be the last, that's just how it goes I guess when you have a bunch of talking monkeys trying to make order out of the messes they have made.