The Carbon Flame War
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Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Speaking of Which... on 03/19/2011 17:18:06 MDT Print View

"Dean said: "tell Rog he's still wrong, and I already have plans for his $1000.""

Wow, if that doesn't get us to 100, I don't know what will. ;)

My deepest respect to Dean, and my hope that he comes back intact in body AND soul. His is not an easy path to walk.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Speaking of Which... on 03/22/2011 02:59:26 MDT Print View

"Dean said: "tell Rog he's still wrong, and I already have plans for his $1000.""

Well if Dean is up to his neck in it in Afghanistan, then it's not surprising he hasn't had time to play in this debate.

What I've come to realize through my research is that the oceans store and release enough solar energy in non-linear ways affected by factors we are only just beginning to understand that pretty much anything could happen with surface temperature over the next ten years.

Surface temperature, while of most interest to people living on the surface, is actually a pretty poor metric for understanding the throughput of energy within the Earth-near space system as a whole. Ocean heat content is the major player in controlling climate over the longer term, and I notice the NOAA people have finally followed the advice Craig Loehle and I offered for free a couple of years ago, and downsized the jump in OHC at the point around 2003-4 where the old XBT (expendable bathytherms) and the new ARGO float's data is spliced together. It's still too high though.

.loehle OHC

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Speaking of Which... on 03/22/2011 12:24:20 MDT Print View

>> pretty much anything could happen with surface temperature over the next ten years.

I will bet $1,000,000 that anything can happen : )


>> Surface temperature, while of most interest to people living on the surface, is actually a pretty poor metric for understanding the throughput of energy within the Earth-near space system as a whole.

Refreshing to hear something that makes sense. Their is a lot more to our planet than the thin crust we try to live upon. Human arrogance seems to usually get the best of us. If we were mermaids and mermen then we would look at the ocean. If we were hellites that dwelled way down deep then we would consider the crust to be irrelevant.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Speaking of Which... on 03/22/2011 20:15:06 MDT Print View

"downsized the jump in OHC at the point around 2003-4 where the old XBT (expendable bathytherms) and the new ARGO float's data is spliced together. It's still too high though."

Too high meaning inaccurate, or environmentally destabilizing?

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Speaking of Which... on 03/23/2011 19:31:19 MDT Print View

3/29 approaches.


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/03/110321-ozone-layer-hole-arctic-north-pole-science-environment-uv-sunscreen/?source=link_tw20110322news-ozone

First North Pole Ozone Hole Forming?
"Put on your sunscreen"—damaging air mass could drift far south.

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: 8,000-year-old climate puzzle on 03/26/2011 14:26:32 MDT Print View

interesting...

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110325/full/news.2011.184.html


The 8,000-year-old climate puzzle
Models bolster case for early human effect on greenhouse-gas levels.

Jeff Tollefson

Scientists have come up with new evidence in support of the controversial idea that humanity's influence on climate began not during the industrial revolution, but thousands of years ago.

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
The Carbon Flame War Is Over on 04/26/2011 19:20:16 MDT Print View

RIP

Due to the lack of interest in global warming or climate change, this tread is over, I think.

Let's see this past Winter was really cold, but these last two Spring days have been abnormally hot.

It's obvious why there is no interest: as the world gets hotter it is getting colder. Eventually, like pouring boiling water on a chunk of ice, the planet will crack in half. There will be two Earths. One for deniers, one for warmers. One for Democrats, one for Republicans. One for the poor, one for the rich.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: The Carbon Flame War Is Over on 04/26/2011 20:17:26 MDT Print View

I don't want to be with Democrats or Republicans.

But I will choose the side of the poor; they generally sing and dance better than rich people.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War Is Over on 04/26/2011 20:45:47 MDT Print View

We at least have to bring it to 100 pages.

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War Is Over on 04/27/2011 08:37:57 MDT Print View

As I completed the mathematical formulas, I realized an error in my splitting of the Earth in half. Actually there will be a small chunk (approximately 1%) for the wealthies. A larger, happier, singing, dancing 99% section will be for the others.

There is a problem with the 1%: due to lack of space, there will be no room for luxury items and bags of money. Sorry about that. What the 99%ers will have to do is provide a safety net for the 1%ers. Sorry about that too.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War Is Over on 04/27/2011 09:12:00 MDT Print View

^ D'oh!

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War Is Over on 04/27/2011 09:32:59 MDT Print View

This was interesting...

How I Paid Only 1% of My Income in Federal Income Tax


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-schoenberg/how-i-paid-1-of-my-income_b_852948.html

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War Is Over on 04/27/2011 10:26:29 MDT Print View

The UN “disappears” yet another inconvenient claim, and once again, botches the cover up


http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/04/27/the-un-disappears-yet-another-inconvenient-claim-and-once-again-botches-the-cover-up/#more-38804

Lyan Jordan
(redmonk)

Locale: Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
The Carbon Flame War on 04/27/2011 10:49:55 MDT Print View

If nothing else, at least one more person is now aware that global warming is not about surface temperatures and weather.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: The Carbon Flame War Is Over on 04/27/2011 16:39:02 MDT Print View

"Due to the lack of interest in global warming or climate change, this tread is over, I think."

It's not officially over until Rog and Dean settle their bet, ideally on page 100. But Dean is in Afghanistan, which isn't going to resolve itself any time soon, and Rog has been practically incommunicado since returning from Lisbon, possibly licking infected wounds inflicted by the accursed Warmista-which are notoriously slow to heal-so patience is called for.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War Is Over on 04/27/2011 16:42:28 MDT Print View

"But I will choose the side of the poor; they generally sing and dance better than rich people."

Oh yeah. To paraphrase a saying by a Black friend in Chicago, back in the day: Who wants to be rich on Saturday night. ;)

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War Is Over on 04/27/2011 17:48:01 MDT Print View

>> licking infected wounds inflicted by the accursed Warmista

Not Rog. Oh tell me it ain't so.

I believe Dean has put this topic on a back burner. Maybe they reached a secret treaty.

Is there any truth to the rumor that Rog was seen on a flight with Al Gore discussing a movie deal?

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War Is Over on 04/27/2011 19:41:51 MDT Print View

"Not Rog. Oh tell me it ain't so."

There's only one man who can set our minds at ease, and he ain't talkin'. :-(

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: Re: The Carbon Flame War Is On on 04/28/2011 11:06:38 MDT Print View

Interesting how recent strange weather is not generating the warming discussions. I believe it was back in mid-70s when there was a super-tornado-something from the South up through the East. The current pattern is the worst since then.

Of course, in the seventies it was about global cooling.

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: The Carbon Flame War (D vs R) a dramatization on 04/30/2011 13:32:23 MDT Print View

the debaters 1


Disclaimer: This is only a dramatization. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental.