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The Carbon Flame War
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Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Rainfall on 11/04/2010 16:22:38 MDT Print View

It can also be measured in fathoms. as my favourite South Island rainfall image does:

Rainfall, main divide

I live on the right side of the graph, but a hike a lot towards the left side too :(

Edited by retropump on 11/04/2010 16:23:49 MDT.

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Rainfall on 11/04/2010 20:05:25 MDT Print View

Does it rain beer on left or right?

Great graph.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yorkshire on 11/05/2010 07:11:23 MDT Print View

Nick, I prefer imperial measures too, but being a trained engineer I use both systems interchangeably.

Phew, hot and dry near you then. Too much for me, I wouldn't fancy getting stoned in that heat. ;-)

Lynn, love that graph!

Edited by tallbloke on 11/05/2010 07:16:22 MDT.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yorkshire on 11/05/2010 09:39:32 MDT Print View

Rog,

Inches vs millimeters... back in the 70's I was a mechanic. All my tools were Imperial. Then with the influx of Japanese cars, I had to purchase a duplicate set of metric tools. Metric is pretty much universal today. I can work with either type of fastener without mentally doing a conversion. The metric pitch of fastener threads does make much more sense to me.

When dealing with liquid capacities I have to mentally do a conversion. Fortunately a quart is close to a liter. And you have to admit that a "beer barrel" and a "hogshead" are pretty cool measures.

When it comes to weights I can't deal with it. I have to use a conversion tool.

What I REALLY hate are metric distances in track and field. I wish we could dump the 1500m race. To me the mile is the gold standard, and your Dr. Roger Bannister is the god of that race. Even today, over 50 years later, a sub 4 minute mile is an elite time that middle distance runners shot for.

Oh well, progress...

Fortunately for us in the U.S. China and Mexico use the metric system :)

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yorkshire on 11/05/2010 11:18:08 MDT Print View

Nick said: To me the mile is the gold standard

Agree! That is best track event ever. I remember well following Jim Ryun and Steve Scott. Who was that runner from Kenya, Kip Keno? It was a really big deal back in the day.

P.S.

Happy Birthday Nick!

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yorkshire on 11/05/2010 12:50:28 MDT Print View

George...

Ryun was my hero when I was a miler in high school. I went to high school in Lawndale. I think it was in 1968 that Ryun and Kansas came out here to run against UCLA. The day before the meet the Kansas team did their workout out at El Segundo High. The ES coach liked me and called my coach that day to tell him I was invited to come over to run with them. I had no car, so I ran to ES, worked out with them, and then ran back home. When I got home I wasn't tired at all, since I was so elated.

My son, Joe, is also a distance runner. When he was in high school about 8 years ago, I gave him Ryun's autobiography as a Christmas gift. It was out of print and a new copy cost me a lot of money. The next year he gave me the book back as a Christmas gift. I was taken aback and somewhat disappointed. He said, "Dad, he is your hero, not mine. But open the cover." Joe had talked his coach into driving him from Orange County to San Diego one Saturday in hopes he could get Ryun to sign it, as Ryun was giving a speech there. One of the best gifts I ever got. It is a pretty good book if you have not read it.

I went to many meets to watch Ryun run. Pretty amazing that in those days he could just about fill up the LA Coliseum. I got to see that great race against Kip Keino at the Compton relays. Also back in the day, it was pretty common to see Scott and other elites run in the summer AAU all comer meets in the LA area. I think Scott broke 4 minutes something like 400+ times.

Those were the days... and no carbon flame war either :)

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yorkshire on 11/05/2010 13:11:17 MDT Print View

"Ryun was my hero when I was a miler in high school."

No, he was _my_ hero when I was a miler in high school.

Didn't we go to different schools together?

--B.G.--

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yorkshire on 11/05/2010 14:35:46 MDT Print View

>> Didn't we go to different schools together?

Hmm.. the important question is did we race and who won :)

or can we race again today?



My best was 4:25 right after I graduated. My son was 4:11, and he did get around 4:03 or so in college (1500m converted), but ran mostly longer distances. We always hope our kids do better than us.

Distance running in the US has really enjoyed somewhat of a revival the past 10 years or so, which has been exciting and I much rather discuss that than weather anyway.

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yorkshire on 11/05/2010 15:31:24 MDT Print View

"I much rather discuss that than weather anyway."

Ah well you see Nick, where you live, the same weather can persist for weeks on end, whereas here in Yorkshire it's very changeable, and Brit's have weather as a daily topic of discussion because no-one knows what it'll be like for that planned BBQ at the weekend, or tomorrow, or next season.

The climateers play with their models and try to get us to spend billions on a bet about what it might be like in 50 years time, but the fact is, no-one knows with enough certainty to make a call to reshape our future economic direction.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yorkshire on 11/05/2010 16:06:16 MDT Print View

by weather I meant "climategate" :)

We talk about weather all the time, especially when it is 70F-80F here in the winter, and the majority of our country is fighting snowstorms and related issues. When it gets above 115F, we just say, "it is dry heat, not uncomfortable at all."

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: Yorkshire TERRIER - CLIMATE CHANGE REVEALED!!! on 11/05/2010 18:48:00 MDT Print View

While Yorkshire is in the Carbon Flame War spotlight...

Global warming can be forecast by examination of the Yorkshire terrier.

It is so obvious I can't believe the climate scientists have not picked up on it.

The wooly mammoths were around during the last great cooling. The yorkie is a sign of things to come. Although presently yorkie p00p is much easier to clean up than the wooly, they are a vicious beast nonetheless.

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: CLIMATE CHANGE REVEALED!!! Future on 11/05/2010 18:53:40 MDT Print View

Most likely women will be affected first. It is not going to be a pretty situation...


ape

Gun control this!

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: Re: CLIMATE CHANGE REVEALED!!! Future More on 11/05/2010 18:59:11 MDT Print View

Then man, always slower to development, will change...


man

Honey, have you seen my razor?

George Matthews
(gmatthews) - MLife
Re: Re: IPCC attacked by yorkies on 11/05/2010 19:08:37 MDT Print View

Heard this on NPR on my way home..

IPCC conference attacked by hairy beasts



The climate scientists


scientists



The suspects


yorkie


Supposedly released by a hatted, tall, healthy nosed agitator.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re: IPCC attacked by yorkies on 11/05/2010 19:18:53 MDT Print View

You guys are absolutely out of control.

--B.G.--

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
Carbon monkey chicks et al on 11/05/2010 19:34:15 MDT Print View

I think I'll put on my clothes and go home now...

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Re: Re: IPCC attacked by yorkies on 11/06/2010 18:55:44 MDT Print View

Appropriate that George lifted the 'climate scientists' still from 'Shaun of the Dead'. A classic zombie movie.

The vicious attack Yorkies are bred and trained at a secret location on the moors near Cleckhuddersfax. I could tell you where, but then you'd have to be fed to the Yorkies.

Arapiles .
(Arapiles) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ever heard the barn of seamus on 11/07/2010 01:34:51 MDT Print View

"If the rain is falling vertically, both will capture the same amount of rain. This is because both roofs cover the same ground area. Take either roof off, and assume the walls and floor do not leak, then the vertical capture has nothing to do with the roof."

Rain collection = surface area x rainfall

Greater surface area = greater rain collection.

If you had a larger surface area but the same amount of rain being collected then the rain would be less dense in that area: how would that be possible?

Rog Tallbloke
(tallbloke) - F

Locale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ever heard the barn of seamus on 11/07/2010 02:33:04 MST Print View

Arapiles me old wombat, I hope you are a better lawyer than you are a physicist.

Rain collection = surface area x rainfall

Greater surface area = greater rain collection.


More fully, that would be:

Rain collection = surface area perpendicular to the direction of rainfall x rainfall

So for your second statement to be true, you have to build an extension on your house, rather than increase the angle of your roof. ;-)


In other news, I see the CEI has taken NASA GISS to court for failure to comply with freedom of information laws.

Climategate II is on the horizon, more "hide the decline" shenannigans.

Edited by tallbloke on 11/07/2010 02:45:00 MST.

Arapiles .
(Arapiles) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ever heard the barn of seamus on 11/07/2010 03:33:27 MST Print View

"Rain collection = surface area perpendicular to the direction of rainfall x rainfall"

Rain falling vertically won't be perpendicular to a pitched roof. And I can't say that I've ever had rain where only one side of the roof got wet: you'd need to be somewhere that the wind could come in nearly horizontally for that to be possible. The rain here tends to wet all my roof surfaces.

Something I was curious about was the funnels that you see used on rain guages: because of the greater surface area that would mean collecting more rain than would be the case with just the open mouth of the rain-guage and thereby over-estimating it. It turns out that the commercial ones have an adjusted mm scale (so the markings aren't a mm apart - i.e., they're not rulers, which means someone has worked out the maths based on a particular funnel) and the BOM ones are a mm apart but use a conversion factor.