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Edited by skopeo on 01/22/2013 00:28:37 MST.

This is a previous forum posting on JB pot efficiency with a alcohol stove.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/11467/index.html?skip_to_post=84229#84229

I recall that thread Tony; it was excellent.

Whereas your sideburner stove required almost an a fluid ounce of alcohol to boil a pint of water, the Caldera uses much less. It's so efficient that the air coming off the top isn't even very hot!

I have a hunch that the Caldera is in an efficiency league of its' own as compared to other alcohol stoves. I'd love to see test results from your lab, though.

Hi Brian,

"Whereas your sideburner stove required almost an a fluid ounce of alcohol to boil a pint of water"

This is not true if you did the conversion you would have had figures of

STD pot 18.1g of alcohol = 22.9 mls = 0.77 US fluid ounces
JB pot 12.4g of alcohol= 15.7 mls = 0.53 US fluid onuces That is half an ounce of denatured for 1 US pints. This is from a fast but inefficient stove.

I have had much better figures from some of my other alcohol stoves, my best yet is 9 grams (11.4 mls = 0.385 ounces) Denatured to boil 0.5 liters from an experimantal stove and this is with using a standard pot.

I have not tested the CC system yet, when funds become available I will purchase a CC and will post test results.
I am currently doing some testing on alcohol stoves with the small JB pot.

Tony

Has anyone else upgraded with the offer Rand sent out?
I have one of the original caldera cones, and it still works so well, I hate to trade mine in.
Is the newer design really worth it?

On a side thought...bulk? Just store it flat or at times I roll mine up inside my green plastic measuring cup with my spork and lighter tucked inside.

This thread has me seriously considering buying a caldera cone (somebody stop me!).

Anyway, I've called Trail Designs and AGG to ask some questions. As I understand it, the pot that you use with your caldera cone will impact the efficiency of fuel use. Pots with a wider diameter such as the AGG 3 cup pot or the Evernew .9 L come highly recommended for their efficiency.

What mugs/pots are you guys using with your cones?

I use the AGG 3-cup pot as it is inexpensive and allows for the shortest Caldera Cone system that I could find. I roll the cone and place the bottom of it in the pot. Inside the cone goes the stove, matches, lighter, 2 4oz fuel bottles, measuring cup, spoon, soap, and a couple of Esbit tabs. I then place a circular piece of microfiber towel on top of the cone to protect it, and place my Snowpeak 16oz mug/pot on top. The top of the cone fits nicely in the bottom of the Snowpeak mug/pot. The AGG pot lid goes on the bottom, and the entire package goes into a stuff sack. I've read about many ways to pack the cone, but everyone needs to adapt the storage solution that suits them best.

I want to get a CC now too...I was umming and arring in the past but with the additional comments on this thread people have made, it sounds like the GO.

I have a firelite 1300 Pot (I love this thing), but unforunately when I bought it a couple of months ago, and still now, the CC was sold out for it.

:(

I might poke the trail designs people about whether they have any or whether they can knock one up for me.

A CC or custom TT to work with this pot I think would be fantastic in Tasmania (on alcohol and/or esbit) where normally I would take an MSR or canister stove, given the amount of water I would boil for hot cuppas, etc.

Good points Josh, using wood with the TT would make sense, and using the esbit as backup.

I already carry enough Ti stakes, so that saves another 0.6 oz. So I would save around 4 oz and perhaps lose some speed.

I'm thinking I should give the TT system a go. Although, I've loved my Ti Zip...

I use both a 0.9L and a 1.3L Vargo titanium pots. Depending on the season and what my plans are. Unfortunately, a different Caldera cone is needed for each pot.

But, it's a great design and I love it for all but dead of winter when the only water is in frozen form when I switch to an inverted MSR Windpro.

A few points to ponder:

Wide-shallow pots seem to be more efficient than tall-narrow ones in almost every circumstance. I suspect this is due to the larger surface area that receives direct radiative heat from the heat source.

I find tall-narrow pots (technically mugs at some volumes) to be easier for me to pack in my bag, which is another consideration for me.

Flattened (and rolled) Caldera Cone dimensions will vary by pot. The Cone that I ordered for the Snow Peak 700 Ti mug should measure 7x14, whereas the Cone for a AGG 3 Quart would be more like 6x18. Whether or not this is significant is probably a function of how you intend to pack it.

Adam,

TD's site says they can do the Custom Ti Cones for any of the CC designs. Now, I don't know if there's any special considerations when you get up into that large, but if I remember correctly TD did some proto's for 2L pots for BPL's wilderness trekking school, so I suspect you're a go.

If it were me, I'd go ahead and spring right for the Ti Cone...

David,

I'm definitely not going to stop you. Yes, in 'normal' circumstances wider = more efficient. However, the design of the CC mitigates that to a significant extent. I'm sure one of the TD guys would be able to pinpoint a particular pot / cone combination that is the 'most efficient' however I suspect that title is going to be marginal at best.

Why do I claim this? Well, as has been said with traditional heat sources a wide base is more efficient because it captures more of the flame. However, the beauty of the CC is that it allows even the sides of the pot to capture a lot of the heat output. Now, for the same volume a tall skinny pot is going to have more surface area / volume of water than a wider pot... so... even though less surface area is exposed to direct flame more is is exposed to heat in general... making it less of an issue.

Basically, my advice... whatever pot you have that seems to be the best for your as far as the amount of water you want to heat... get a custom Ti-Cone for that.