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john Tier
(Peter_pan) - M

Locale: Co-Owner Jacks 'R' Better, LLC, VA
quilts on 02/26/2008 17:58:17 MST Print View

Robert,

I can see by your preferences in design features....You are really more of a bag person....Those who toss and turn are also often more suited to a bag... It is interesting that the original Go-lite quilts were dropped for low sales... probably an item before their time.... Fast forward a few years...Enter the new Ultra 20 Quilt...Sorta validates the role and position of the quilt in the Ultra Light movement.... Even looks like a play on the term "Ultra"....

Back to point... sleep styles, like and interactive with hiking styles are personal choices and loaded with trade-offs and each individuals own assesment... It is nice to have choices.

Pan

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Megalite as a bag AND a quilt on 02/26/2008 20:44:05 MST Print View

My WM Megalite is a great down mummy bag that, fully unzipped, with the foot hooked over the end of my full length Thermarest UL, makes a great quilt on warm to moderate (50s F) nights.

Yet I still have a great mummy bag that I have comfortably slept in at 22F. with only thin polyester long johns & balaclava. So I have the comfort of a quilt and the warmth of a mummy B/C the Megalite is a bit wider than other WM summer bags and thus works well as a quilt.

Eric

John Myers
(dallas) - F - MLife

Locale: North Texas
bag/quilt on 02/27/2008 11:33:42 MST Print View

I prefer a quilt if it is 40 or above. I prefer a bag if it is colder than that. I have a JRB NS quilt, BA bag/air mattress combo and a Marmot bag/CCF combo which I interchange depending on whether I use the hammock or the tent (GG squall classic). Like everything, there are advantages and disadvantages to each. I choose the system that I think will give me the best sleep for the weight and conditions. Lightweight is important but for me, I'm happy to carry a little more to get a good night's sleep.

Like Eric, I'll use the Marmot as a quilt at times and can zip it up if I need to.

steven rarey
(laptraffic) - F

Locale: Washington
More Quilt stuff on 03/03/2008 16:54:07 MST Print View

Some really great posts.

My intent is to develop synergy between the clothes I'm already carrying, base layer, windproof shell, and possibly rain gear (Frogg Toggs)

as others have posted I dont much see the point in carrying extra gear that is sleeping system specific as my main reason for going with the quilt is weight savings.

I Thought the Z lite slept very warm, but this is coming from 3/4 pads that left me much colder through the night, even in a down Mountain hard spectra at similar temperatures. I guess I sleep warm.

I also ordered a bivy. Unfortunately before I checked back to this thread. I purchased the Vapr Lite and should have it tonight. How does it compare with the Ti Goat?

I have an 8x5 ID Silnylon tarp as well. This kit is for an August trip to SE alaska. Solo. I expect a lot of wet and bugs.

Potential temps dipping into the mid 20's (it can do anything and everything there) But expected temps at night in the mid 30's

Russell Swanson
(rswanson) - F

Locale: Midatlantic
Re: Quilt Question on 03/03/2008 19:10:57 MST Print View

Steven,

One thing I don't think has been mentioned here in regards to your curiosity about why you slept better is that your body had time to adjust to the cold after being out of doors for a while. I usually sleep better on successive nights in similarly cold temps. The shock of coming from a climate controlled setting to chilly weather in the outdoors can require your body to make some internal adjustments.

steven rarey
(laptraffic) - F

Locale: Washington
Adjustment on 03/03/2008 23:21:05 MST Print View

I think that is what I was trying to hit on. I got used to it.

Curious, now that I have the Vapr lite coming (250 bucks)
The question I really should be asking is, how does it perform against the TI goat Ptarmigan that was discussed earlier in this thread (90 bucks)

Looks like the the Vapr Lite might breath a bit better?

Interested in some opinions.

Thanks.

Edited by laptraffic on 03/03/2008 23:34:27 MST.

Adam Kilpatrick
(oysters) - MLife

Locale: South Australia
180 Quilt warmth vs Climashield XP 5oz on 04/02/2008 01:33:49 MDT Print View

I was just checkin out thru-hiker.com for the first time in a while, and they have 5oz/square yard climashield XP, with a clo/oz of .81.
The 180 quilt should have about the same weight in insulation (~5.15oz/yd if my calcs are correct).

Thru-hiker says that with .42Clos, that should be warm enough for a 20F quilt? I figure polarguard delta should be much the same in terms of warmth...so are thruhiker way out in their estimates, coz from what ive gathered so far in this thread, most ppl would struggle past 32F without added insulation in a UL180.

I just bought a UL180, and it seems great so far, I figure without added insulation except maybe socks and a possumdown beanie, I should be good for 32F, given that I am a cold sleeper, and comparing the thickness of the quilt to my old polarguard 3D s/bag. Itll be a couple more months before I can test that-it isnt cold enough yet here in South Aus.

???

Or should I have gone and bought some climashield and made my own quilt for a bit better performance?

John Gilbert
(JohnG10) - F

Locale: Mid-Atlantic
CLO Values on 04/02/2008 08:41:53 MDT Print View

Delta is a little colder than XP, but still good stuff. (The BPL quilts were designed before XP was available).

Here are some CLO values posted by Richard Nisley in another thread last month. (Search under CLO Values)

The now discontinued Polarguard Delta is .68 clo/oz.
-Standard down (550 fill power) is .70 clo/oz.
-Cimashield XP is .82 clo/oz.
-Current Primaloft One is .84 clo/oz
-Primaloft One Convexion is .92 clo/oz but, it will not be generally available until late summer or early fall.
-800+ fill power down is 1.68 clo/oz at the density used in most UL manufactures products such as Mont-bell's (2.16 kg/m^3).

ps: Primiloft is short-staple fibers rather than continuous fibers like Delta or XP - so it looses loft from compression faster.

canyon steinzig
(canyon) - F

Locale: Nor Cal
all in the bag on 04/03/2008 00:47:58 MDT Print View

Mike has a good point that I have thought about. Let me say that I do carry a warm jacket (various depending upon the season)But in terms of warmth it doesn't seem to make sense. Why not put it all in the down and not add any extra nylon in teh name of insulated clothing. How many actually wear insulated clothing when not in camp? So, we can't pull a sleeping bag over our shoulders as we cook? If one were really trying to save weight (not saying that should be the priority) but if it were, then getting into camp and when cold set in, pulling the bag over seems the lightest warmest approach. Obviously this is what a FF Rock Wren does. I bring a jacket as a redundant safety item as much as anything. If the bag wets out, I have to walk in a snow storm etc. I'm sure I'll keep doing this for safety reasons. But for weight...how can the nylon in a jacket really help more than feathers? Thanks Mike

Richard DeLong
(Legkohod) - MLife

Locale: Eastern Europe / Caucasus
Re: all in the bag on 04/03/2008 05:43:32 MDT Print View

I totally agree. Sleeping bags and quilts that double as around-camp insulation should be just as popular around here as the poncho-tarp combo, and for the same reasons. But they still have yet to really catch on. Maybe there is some design innovation lacking that's holding things up.

Edited by Legkohod on 04/03/2008 05:45:23 MDT.

Jaiden .
(jaiden) - F
Re: Re: all in the bag on 04/03/2008 11:27:20 MDT Print View

That's a big reason I picked my JRB quilts with head holes and a poncho tarp. I figure the poncho tarp can protect the insulation somewhat.

I'm not that UL though (12-17lb base so far), so I may not be the best example.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Re: Re: all in the bag on 04/03/2008 13:45:50 MDT Print View

My issues with putting all the insulation in the bag are how wet I often get while just sitting around camp, or getting in and out of a wet tent (whether due to condensation or rain) and having sleeves and pockets to keep my arms and hands warm, my matches and light handy, etc...I also like the option of making a pillow out of my jacket if it's not too cold, and lots of other little reasons too. The extra layers of nylon also improve warmth on windy nights in a tarptent.

Adam Kilpatrick
(oysters) - MLife

Locale: South Australia
Re: All (the insulation) in the bag on 04/03/2008 17:05:14 MDT Print View

Unless I am mistaken, JrB dont seem to make a sythetic version of their no sniveller wearable quilts? I can imagine being sythetic might convert more people who are worried about getting their only piece of insulation wet.

Mind you, is it lighter to have a single, sythetic wearable quilt(which might need to weigh in at say 30oz for ~32F conditions), or to have a seperate down quilt and down jacket? These might weigh in at ~14oz + 9oz =23oz, and potentially be more versatile and easier to use?

My figures are probably way out here.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Re: All (the insulation) in the bag on 04/03/2008 18:24:00 MDT Print View

A lot of folks prefer to go with a lighter down quilt/bag plus a synthetic jacket to give both the versatility and better protection from wet around camp stuff.

steven rarey
(laptraffic) - F

Locale: Washington
Small world on 04/03/2008 19:12:01 MDT Print View

Great stuff in this thread. Something to throw out there for my own personal use with the quilt

I carry a thermawrap UL coat, and smart wool midweight zip also a OR balaclava and a pair of gloves (Rei brand)

with hunting there is a lot of time spent glassing which is very INACTIVE and these garments are really required or you can be pretty ineffective, even at noon if you are not in direct sunlight. It is amazing how cold you can get when not moving around. So this stuff is really pulling double duty as sleeping gear and useful daytime layering.

Hey Mark Verber - the small world title is for you, I just bought your Spinnshelter off of ebay. Got it yesterday, everything looks great, thanks :)

Richard DeLong
(Legkohod) - MLife

Locale: Eastern Europe / Caucasus
Re: Re: All (the insulation) in the bag on 04/04/2008 02:18:40 MDT Print View

>> Unless I am mistaken, JrB dont seem to make a sythetic version of their no sniveller wearable quilts? I can imagine being sythetic might convert more people who are worried about getting their only piece of insulation wet.

>> Mind you, is it lighter to have a single, sythetic wearable quilt(which might need to weigh in at say 30oz for ~32F conditions), or to have a seperate down quilt and down jacket? These might weigh in at ~14oz + 9oz =23oz, and potentially be more versatile and easier to use?

JrB only uses down. Ron at MLD can make a Climashield quilt with a slit.

I am looking to combine a camp jacket and quilt to minimize weight for a solo CT trek. I expect to either be walking or lying down almost all of the time, so an insulating jacket isn't an issue. If daytime temps were below freezing, I would start looking at insulated jackets (polarguard or high-fill down) for occasional on-trail use. Otherwise, it seems wise to combine the functions. I think if you have a second form of rain protection or you stay under your tarp until the last minute before heading out on the trail, you can pretty much avoid wetting your quilt/jacket. This is just theory, though - I haven't gotten my quilt yet.