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Huzefa Siamwala
(huzefa)
durable/breathable outer shell fabric on 02/11/2008 21:53:51 MST Print View

I posted this question in Gear Forun but got no replies, so I m trying my luck here. The fabric should have the following characteristics:
breathable (atleast better then event)
absorb little water when wet
LIGHT
DURABLE

I m not concerned with water/wind resistance or any other plus. It will be used for a jacket/pant for all season. I will post another thread explaining how later. Any suggestions?

Roleigh Martin
(marti124) - MLife

Locale: Moderator-JohnMuirTrail Yahoo Group
Re: durable/breathable outer shell fabric on 02/11/2008 23:52:49 MST Print View

Read http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00316.html

You'll see that the only item more breathable than event is the fragile material such as the Rainshield - which is very inexpensive and much lighter than Event. I have used it for 2 years as a rain jacket and plan to use it again next July. If you tear it, the house vapor barrier tape one can get at a hardware store (color is normally red) sticks to it 100% fantastic and is light and waterproof. The pants are way too fragile -- suggest Frog Togg pants (Frog Toggs are more durable than Rainshield but heavier--they are still somewhat fragile but not nearly as the Rainshield).

Huzefa Siamwala
(huzefa)
durable/breathable outer shell fabric on 02/12/2008 00:53:52 MST Print View

Thanks Roleigh. I already know about rainshield. But I am looking for a non-water/windproof shell material. It shouldnt absorb water when wet and be durable for a jacket.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: durable/breathable outer shell fabric on 02/12/2008 01:56:01 MST Print View

Huzefa, you describe a fabric that does not exist, IMO.

Huzefa Siamwala
(huzefa)
durable/breathable outer shell fabric on 02/12/2008 03:36:21 MST Print View

May be. But I will keep looking. A article here talks about 'Expanded PTFE Membrane'. Anyone has any idea what it is?

http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/breathability.pdf

James D Buch
(rocketman) - F

Locale: Midwest
Expanded PTFE on 02/12/2008 06:51:22 MST Print View

This is the original membrane (microporous) concept that was developed by Gore as the original GoreTex.

By itself, the membrane is a flimsy thin film, and needs great protection before it can be used in clothing. The common way of use is if it is laminated to a fabric for protection from abrasion from the outside.

I have read where another firm has researched the PTFE membrane technology, and has created a membrane with overcomes a number of limitations of the GoreTex technology.

James Schipper
(monospot) - MLife
Expanded PTFE on 02/12/2008 07:28:15 MST Print View

This membrane is used in Gore's windstopper products. They are basically windproof and are water resistant. Some people don't like them because of breathablity issues but they are probably as breathable as event. There are many formulations of windstopper products but since you don't sound like you are using it for insulation, the N2S version would probably be best. Look at the Mountain Hardwear Transition Jacket if you want a hood or the Transition Tee if you don't. Other companies may make similar products, just a place to start.

Christian Klose
(trap20) - F
Re: durable/breathable outer shell fabric on 02/12/2008 07:41:40 MST Print View

Every uncoated synthetic fabric without membrane should work.

What kind of durability do you need? You could use aramid or dyneema fabric which are the most durable materials per weight. The lightest aramid fabrics you usually can find are 0.8 oz/sq yd. I have no idea if they are suitable for clothing.

Huzefa Siamwala
(huzefa)
durable/breathable outer shell fabric on 02/12/2008 08:47:51 MST Print View

Thanks christian. you got it. yes I m unsure of aramid too. can anyone comfirm or has exprience with aramid or dyneema in clothing?

I think I will reframe the question: what is the most durable uncoated synthetic fabric for its weight? Any contenders to aramid or dyneema?

Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
Re: durable/breathable outer shell fabric on 02/12/2008 08:58:09 MST Print View

Roger C has some articles of home-made clothing for bushwhacking here... He uses Taslan which, if memory serves, is similar in durability to a Dyneema... he touts it for being rather light, tough as nails, and absorbs little (if any) water.

Edited by jdmitch on 02/12/2008 08:58:51 MST.

Christian Klose
(trap20) - F
Re: Re: durable/breathable outer shell fabric on 02/12/2008 09:27:16 MST Print View

Teslan is short for taslan nylon. Nylon isn't bad in terms of durability/weight but no contender to aramid or dyneema. Spectra would be another option, it's very similar to dyneema.

Keprotec probably is the most commonly used clothing fabric that contains aramid (unfortunatly it's way too heavyweight). One top in Keprotec is made by Klattermusen: Mithryl Sweater

Edited by trap20 on 02/12/2008 09:28:38 MST.

Huzefa Siamwala
(huzefa)
durable/breathable outer shell fabric on 02/12/2008 10:37:36 MST Print View

I found the article. Incase anyone else is interested, here is the link
http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Fabrics.htm

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: durable/breathable outer shell fabric on 02/12/2008 16:12:07 MST Print View

Hi Huzefa

Yes, I wrote both the articles on bushwhacking gear and the FAQ.
It does sound to me as though Taslan would suit your needs. You can buy it or something similar from some of the DIY fabric companies listed in the DIY section of the FAQ. OWFINC has given me good service. Have a look at their nylon fabics, and maybe buy a sample swatch first.

Cheers
Roger

Huzefa Siamwala
(huzefa)
durable/breathable outer shell fabric on 02/13/2008 09:42:48 MST Print View

Thanks Roger, and everyone else who commented.

I will certainly be looking at Taslan. But I will be checking this thread too incase someone comes up with a better solution.

Jane McMichen
(jmcmichen) - F

Locale: Maine, DownEast Coast
Taslan & Mithril on 02/13/2008 11:12:51 MST Print View

Hi guys,

I am also deciding on a fabric for my pants and jacket, so this thread caught my attention. Thanks Huzefa!

I looked up the Taslan on Quest Fabrics and got the Stormshield on this page:
http://www.questoutfitters.com/h20.html

Roger, is that the Taslan you're referring to?

Christian, do you know if there an American company that makes anything like the Mithril trousers and sweater? Maybe a little lighter? Or, preferably, perhaps somewhere to buy the fabric?

Thanks!

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Taslan & Mithril on 02/13/2008 18:42:17 MST Print View

Hi Jane

> I looked up the Taslan on Quest Fabrics and got the Stormshield on this page:
> http://www.questoutfitters.com/h20.html
No, definitely not. That is a GoreTex fabric using a Taslan fabric for the face. It would be hopelessly ill-matched to the requirements as the GoreTex layer blocks all airflow. Yuk!

OWFINC have Taslan/Supplex. I am not sure whether this is what I am talking about though, as I have never used Supplex. My recommendation would be to email to one (or all) of these companies expaling what you want. I emailed OWFINC and arranged to buy some 'Tahoe' fabric, which is essentially a heavy Taslan. They were very helpful.

The word Taslan actually refers to the 'air-textured nylon thread' which is used to make the fabric. I dare say some manufacturers have their own names for the same fabric.

Cheers
Roger

R K
(oiboyroi) - M

Locale: South West US
Re: Re: Taslan & Mithril on 02/13/2008 19:10:55 MST Print View

Hi Roger,

What's the difference between taslan and supplex, if any? Is it just the textured thread?

Cheers,
Roy

Vick Hines
(vickrhines) - F

Locale: Central Texas
Re: Re: Re: Taslan & Mithril on 02/13/2008 19:12:34 MST Print View

Taslan and Supplex are brand names for the same fabric - essentially a low denier, uncoated cordura.

R K
(oiboyroi) - M

Locale: South West US
Re: Re: Re: Re: Taslan & Mithril on 02/13/2008 19:18:03 MST Print View

Vick,

Thats what I suspected. Thanks for clearing that up.

Best,

Roy

Huzefa Siamwala
(huzefa)
durable/breathable outer shell fabric on 02/14/2008 21:13:14 MST Print View

I was researching supplex in the forum and here is what I found.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/4917/index.html?skip_to_post=36301

It says supplex wears out very fast when exposed to direct sunlight. Has anyone else had simmilar exprience? Rainshed has a 3-Ply Supplex with UPF 30+ sun protection. would that solve the problem?