Quilt or Bag
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Douglas McCoy
(dmccoy) - F

Locale: Spokane Wa
Quilt or Bag on 01/23/2008 23:03:35 MST Print View

OK folks, I have been wanting to make a down quilt for a long time now. Well A fellow BPL member gifted me a sewing machine and it is just sitting here screaming use me, use me. After loooking at various quilts I have a few questions. I want a 40F(4C) quilt. Now I have found a few bags that are this temp rating and come in around the 16 oz (453 grams) range and within a reasonable amount I am willing to pay for a bag. After reading some threads and looking at Thru-hikers' kit I can not really draw any conclusions to how much it would weigh. I am am hoping in the 10 oz (283 gram)or less range. This will be my first sewing project so I am a little leary of it but am willing to give it a shot. Also with the Momentum 90 kit it almost comes to the same amount as a 40f bag by some monufacturers. So I would like to hear from down quilt owners (or synthectic) how much their quilts weigh (provided they are within close proximity of the 40f mark). I will be using the quilt in conjucntion with my clothing (extra layering) that I allready take to hopefully bring my temp range down to about 25-30F (-3 to -1 C) or so. Or if any body can give any information reagrding this matter at al I would really apreciat it. Bottom line is If my 40F (4C) is going to weigh just as much as a manufactured 40F (4C) bag, then I will spring for the extra $50-$100 and buy a bag and save the hassle of making a quilt. Now if any body has a used 40F (4C) or so quilt they want to sell to me on the cheap give me a PM. Because truthfully I don't if I will like a quilt or not, and may just revert back to a bag any way. I HATE DRAFTS and that is a real problem from what I understand.
Thanks in advance.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
not sure about quilts on 01/24/2008 07:02:08 MST Print View

if you're not sure you'll like a quilt yet make one from 1.1oz and climashield xp 2.5oz. This should be about 40* and will let you see if quilts are for you. This should be a pretty cheap project since you can get 1.1 for less than $2yd at some Joanns or walmarts. Making a synthetic quilt will be much easier and a much better first project.

Thats just me.
Marsh
(also this quilt should come in less than 16oz easily)

Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
Re: not sure about quilts on 01/24/2008 11:19:39 MST Print View

Not anywhere near 11 oz for the 1.1 though.

1.1 has a DWR on it that takes it to about 1.35 oz per yard.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
1.1oz fabric on 01/24/2008 16:00:14 MST Print View

sure, but for a test quilt to see if you like it, the savings in cost is worth it. (because if he likes quilts he still wants to make a down one with good fabric anyway)

can you wash the DWR off?

Edited by MarshLaw303 on 01/24/2008 16:01:00 MST.

Vick Hines
(vickrhines) - F

Locale: Central Texas
Re: not sure about quilts on 01/24/2008 16:06:04 MST Print View

Yeah, Marsh has it right. The Wallyworld ripstop may weight 1.6 most of the time, but you can still make a decent test quilt.

Douglas McCoy
(dmccoy) - F

Locale: Spokane Wa
Why I want down on 01/25/2008 02:11:23 MST Print View

Thanks for all the input guys. A couple of things. I forgot to mention that my hiking is done in the PNW and is done all year round' so I would probably use the qulit in the winter as well to bring my bag temp to about 10F or so maybe even lower (My bag is a MEC Merlin 27F/-3C Bag).

As far as the synthectic VS Down option. I gave up on syns along time ago, and have never looked back. But if the quilts would equal the same weight and offer the same warmth properties, than I would try a syn just for the sake of an easier sewing job. I am on the vurge of hitting sub 5lb gear weight and therefore I am trying to cut the corners that I have not allready cut. First being a quilt instead of a bag and second is a cuban tarp (5x8) instead of syl. I allready have a custom pack from Zpacks so that is covered. Therfore this is the next logical step for me to take, is my bag and shelter area. Because I have cut just about everything else I can cut. keeping in mind that once one reaches a certain weight barrier. through a few trips one is able to cut even more by careful observance of methodology while out on the trail for a x number of days. So If a down qulit is going to even be 2ounces or less than a synthetic then I am going to go with down.

If they are within a 1/2 to 1 ounce or so in difference then I might consider the sythetic. But even then I would use the momentum and climashield XP right out the door because I don't want to have to go back and retrace steps. And wally world does offer 1.1 where I live so I don't even try. Plus If I know I can potentially save up to 20% in weight just by going with a different material the first time I will pay the extra ductits just because I wouldn't sleep at night knowing that I could have had a 10 ounce quilt instead of a 13 or higher. Testing or no testing.

I hope this may add some point of referance to where I am coming from. Thanks again for the suggections and insights, keep them coming I apreciate all the knowledge I can get, before I amke any descions on anything.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Some weights and measures on 01/25/2008 09:18:10 MST Print View

So i did some thinking, look out.

all the weights i will list are based on .9oz fabric actually weighing .9oz and 1.1 = 1.1 and so on. I know that it isn't exact, but it's a refference.

Not sure how big you are but i am 6'2" 320lbs.
(yeah, a fatty)The measurements i used are a 75" quilt 45" at head 35" at foot
(at least 5" to small for me all around)

This averages to 40" x 75" (45-35 = 10/2=5 45-5 =40)
Fabric weights for this size
2.1yd lenght x 1.15yd width x 2 (liner & shell) x fabric weight

.9oz = 4.4oz
1.1oz = 5.4oz

Insulation weights
2.1yd lenght x 1.15yd width x 2.5oz XP
Climashield 2.5oz = 6.1oz
Down =
40 x 75 = 3000 x 1.5 = 4500 \ 800 = 5.65 (5.75)
5.75oz (1.5" loft)
40 x 75 = 3000 x1 = 3000 \ 800 = 3.75
3.75oz (1" loft)
(buy 6oz knowing a bit will fly away 5.75 is needed)

Baffle weights (for down bags)
1" baffles cut to 2" for sewing
(should be about 1 yd fabric needed if baffled every 5 inches)
noseeum = 1.8oz
nanoseeum = 1.2oz

total weights

climashield 2.5oz XP
.9oz = 10.5oz
1.1oz = 11.5oz

800 fill down 1.5" loft (nanoseeum baffles)
.9oz = 11.35oz
1.1oz = 12.35oz

800 fill down 1" loft (nanoseeum baffles)
.9oz = 9.35oz
1.1oz = 10.35oz

800 fill sewn through construction (i.e. cold spots)

1.5" loft
.9oz = 10.15oz
1.1oz = 11.15oz

1" loft
.9oz = 8.15oz
1.1oz = 9.15oz

I highly doubt 1" is enough loft for 40*
Nunatak use 1" baffles in the arc edge 40* quilt but they use 5.5oz down for roughly 1.5" loft(almost the same as my 5.75){they use a slightly smaller cut}
Their 40* down quilt weighs 11oz

using 1" and lofting to 1.5" is a great idea, nice down control

BPL ul 60 quilt weighs between 11.4 & 12.8oz for a synthetic (PG Delta)

I know that i am not as smart as most of the others on this site, and that the finished products will weigh a bit more due to drawcords and cordlock and fabric weighing a bit more than advertised, but all the quilts will be affected by that.

To me the ease of construction of an XP bag over a down bag, the cheaper overall cost and the near equal weight are all reasons i stick with synthetics.

This should give you a good idea of what weights can be achieved using the different construction options

Edited by MarshLaw303 on 01/25/2008 11:58:53 MST.

Douglas McCoy
(dmccoy) - F

Locale: Spokane Wa
Genius on 02/01/2008 01:10:25 MST Print View

Wow Marsh,
Thanks so much for the data. that took alot of work to figure out I am sure. It looks like the clima sheild is actually lighter than down. I gues I will go with the syn, plus that way if I I don't like it I haven't lost alot of $$$$ and probably save me alot of frustration in my first DIY project. Will keep you posted.

Edited by dmccoy on 02/01/2008 01:11:19 MST.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
not as much work as one may think on 02/01/2008 18:37:11 MST Print View

I was teaching an art class that day. Just showing videos, so i had all 5 hours to do the math, without the option to do anything else.

The bigger the area of the bag and the greater the loft the more weight efficient down will be. But for such a small quilt and minimal loft for 40* XP seems to be the right choice. For 20*, well that would require some new math.

Edited by MarshLaw303 on 02/01/2008 18:39:25 MST.