Japanese influenced (JSB) alcohol stove
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Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Japanese influenced (JSB) alcohol stove on 08/26/2005 01:33:00 MDT Print View

I have enjoyed looking at Yukio Yamakawa (JSB's) small alcohol stoves so much that I had to make one. This is my first but I know it will not be my last. It weighs 0.25oz and seems to burn good. I will try an boil some water with it tomorrow.

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Edited by bfornshell on 08/26/2005 01:36:55 MDT.

Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
Nicely done... on 08/26/2005 08:07:36 MDT Print View

It seems like that may (or one made out of a smaller can) may sit right in the depression in the bottom of a henie can-pot...

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Japanese influenced (JSB) alcohol stove on 08/26/2005 11:07:37 MDT Print View

Joshua, The Fosters & Henie.... can bottom depressions seem to be the same and the top of this stove sets inside that depression. However, the stove legs are not strong enough to support the can with water in it.

I just did my first "boil test" and used the bottom part of my Ultralight Outfitters stove to support the Fosters Cook Pot. You can see this in the pictures.

I started my test with tap water and what I call a "cold start".

I put the Fosters can with water on the stove and then started the stove. I used the Fosters can lid for my Pot Lid.

Between 3 and 4 minutes I had bubbles in the water.

Between 5 and 6 minutes I had a "Rolling Boil".

The last two pictures just show the stove burning after the water was removed.

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Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
So, why the "spikes" on 08/26/2005 12:08:15 MDT Print View

Is the benefit that they relay some of the heat back down into the alcohol to help it vaporize?

I wonder if one built a wire or stainless mesh stand that sat inside the spikes if it would hold the weight of the pot or if ir would be to unstable.

Also, I wonder if one made from one of the heavier duty aluminum bottles would hold... though that's probably more wishful thinking on my part.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Japanese influenced (JSB) alcohol stov on 08/26/2005 19:31:02 MDT Print View

Joshua: Your question "So, why the "spikes"??

I am into Heavy Metal music?

No, I Just tried to copy the pictures. I haven't figured out the Japanese comments with the pictures yet.

I also thought about using wire to reinforce the spikes. I went to visit my supply stores this afternoon. I couldn't find Stainless Steel wire.
I am going to make another stove like this one and not cut as much of the can away. I will fold the side and then fold the spike in half. This will leave more of the can and maybe make it stronger. I also may try some thin strips of my Titanium for reinforcement.

The only aluminum cans I have to cut up are soda cans. Today I bought a sports drink. It is made in the shape of a glass bottle but aluminum. It seems to be heavier aluminum than the soda cans. I will make the next version with 5 spikes and see if I can fold them to be stronger. The spikes held the Fosters can for a short time with water in it before one of the spikes bent. I think the design is good I just need to make a few of them and see what the best way to fold the can turns out to be.


I believe that the aluminum cans Yukio Yamakawa is using is heavier than my soda cans.

Daniel Goldenberg
(dag4643)

Locale: Pacific Northwet
Re: Japanese influenced (JSB) alcohol stov on 08/26/2005 20:45:04 MDT Print View

It would be nice if the spikes on the JSB stoves would be able to support a pot. That is one of things that I liked about the stoves (assuming the spikes are pot supports). One of the things I don't like about most of the soda can stoves is the need for a separate pot support. Not a big deal to have a separate support but it's nice when it's integrated into the stove. It's one of the things I like about the little brasslite stoves.

Stainless steel wire: If there is a bicycle shop in your area, you can get bicycle spokes. The ones you want are DT swiss or Wheelsmith, these are the most common and will be made of stainless. They generally run under a dollar a piece. The better ones are butted, meaning that the center section is thinner than the ends. 2.0/1.8 gage and 1.8/1.6 are the most common. The lightest (about 4 grams apiece) are DT revolutions, 2.0/1.5 gage. These are very thin in the middle. They will probably run about a buck a piece.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Japanese influenced (JSB) alcohol stove on 08/26/2005 21:49:08 MDT Print View

Daniel, I think the idea of the spikes is that they would support a cook pot. I think if I fold them in a different way they might be strong enough to support a Fosters or Heineken cook pots. This would give you a one piece stove/pot stand in one very light unit. As a stove my first one worked good.

Don't you know my nickname is Titanium Bill. I have 6 Titanium spokes that I bought for a project a long time ago and then used something else. My Ti spokes are 0.27oz each.

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Hideaki Terasawa
(trsw3) - M

Locale: Tokyo
Re: Japanese influenced (JSB) alcohol stove on 08/26/2005 22:43:30 MDT Print View

Hello Bill and everyone.
I'm posting this from Japan.
Maybe you know the JSB's stove can make cyclone flame. The secret of the cyclone is based on the direction of air hole. See the hole position and it's angle carefully please. JSB's air hole is located near the ridge line of the pot stand. The location is not middle of the pot stands. The direction of air hole doesn't face to the center of the can.

From Japan with love!

Edited by trsw3 on 08/26/2005 23:29:47 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Japanese influenced (JSB) alcohol stove on 08/26/2005 23:24:39 MDT Print View

Hideaki-san, Thank you for your reply and the information on the JSB stove. I am trying to understand how the JSB stoves work. It is hard to tell from the pictures and the internet translation program (Japanese to English) doesn't help very much.

Maybe you can post some detailed written information and perhaps a set of step by step pictures.

Thank you very much

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Japanese influenced (JSB) alcohol stove on 08/26/2005 23:39:05 MDT Print View

I just looked at the post from Yukio on the Ultralight Outfitter Stove thread. He has added a short video that shows the "cyclone flame". It is amazing. I have to figure out how to do that.
I will try the hole placement tip from Hideaki and see if I can make my flame "cyclone".

Hideaki Terasawa
(trsw3) - M

Locale: Tokyo
Re: Japanese influenced (JSB) alcohol stove on 08/26/2005 23:52:17 MDT Print View

Thank you for your reply. Your reply is my honor.
Actually, it is too difficult to understand his Japanese even for us, too B-). Many jokes based on Japanese are contained there. That exceeds the range that a translation program can understand.
JSB will probably support you.
I told JSB about this thread.

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Re: Japanese influenced (JSB) alcohol stov on 08/26/2005 23:54:10 MDT Print View

Check out the MiniBull Design Stoves. Several have the pot stand integrated into the stove (you still need to supply a separate windscreen however). Herea s link to the MBD Store==>MiniBullDesign

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Japanese influenced (JSB) alcohol stove on 08/27/2005 00:04:08 MDT Print View

Fornshell-san,

I'll have to check the JSB site again. However, I thought, from looking at it the other day, that he had angled his holes all in one direction (not straight in) just as Hideaki-san said a few posts earlier. I'm guessing that having them angled all in one direction is the reason for the "cyclonic" (like a "twister" i would guess) effect. That was some tall flame your original stove produced. You may want to try the Cyclone outside!!! [Didn't yo' Mama ever tell you not to play with fire?]

Also, did you check out the double cyclone video cyclone and double cyclone side-by-side AVI format video (just click the Kanji LINK on the webpage)

Edited by pj on 08/27/2005 00:22:15 MDT.

Hideaki Terasawa
(trsw3) - M

Locale: Tokyo
Re: Re: Japanese influenced (JSB) alcohol stove on 08/27/2005 00:05:45 MDT Print View

I am sorry for my multiple post.
I only pushed the retry button of my browser.
I don't know how to delete...

Edited by trsw3 on 08/27/2005 01:02:00 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Japanese influenced (JSB) alcohol stove on 08/27/2005 00:30:18 MDT Print View

Hi Paul, I didn't notice the angle of the holes on the pictures of the stove I used as an example. After Hideaki-san's comment about the hole angle I went back for a closer look. Yes, I do see it. I will make a new stove later today and try for the "cyclone" effect.

I had tested my stove outside first before I tested it inside my house.

Paul, I just clicked the link you added. He is having way to much fun at this.

Edited by bfornshell on 08/27/2005 00:35:19 MDT.

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Japanese influenced (JSB) alcohol stove on 08/27/2005 00:36:56 MDT Print View

Bill, you're absolutely right. WAY TOO MUCH FUN!!! However, as you are already aware of, the Japanese have this great ability/mindset to turn anything into an Art Form (ritual), e.g. food presentation, esp. Sushi, Origami, Cha-no-yu (i.e. Japanese tea ceremony - have you ever seen one?), even Sumo. Ya' gotta' love the Japanese and their culture. I sure do.

BTW, i think that we might be the only ones left awake in the Eastern & Central time zones (you're Central time, right?)!!! Actually, I'm just waking up.

Edited by pj on 08/27/2005 00:46:00 MDT.

Yukio Yamakawa
(JSBJSB) - F

Locale: Tokyo,JAPAN
Re: Japanese influenced (JSB) alcohol stove on 08/27/2005 03:44:36 MDT Print View

Alflighttype3

sssmanga1

In the case of the hole of eight division into equal parts, direction of a hole is processed so that it may go to the hole of one beyond. The appearance of the water flowing in is seen and adjusted. Until it results in the stream to which you can be convinced.

「175500AA.AVI」をダウンロード

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Re: Japanese influenced (JSB) alcohol stove on 08/27/2005 04:07:07 MDT Print View

ah...so desu! wakarimasu. arigato gozaimasu Yamakawa-san.

Edited by pj on 08/27/2005 04:09:21 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Japanese influenced (JSB) alcohol stove on 08/27/2005 06:23:42 MDT Print View

Hi Paul, Funny you would mention Chanoyu and other traditional Japanese Art forms. I have studied Chanoyu (Japanese Tea Ceremony) for about 11 years. I am building a Tea House in my home. It is about 85% finished and can be used. I also do several Traditional Japanese Art forms that are related to Chanoyu. Real Japanese Raku Pottery, spinning and weaving of paper called Shifu. making items used for Chanoyu out of wood and bamboo, Shodo or artistic bush writting and a few others.

Pictures of me doing a Tea Demo for a City After School Art Program.
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The material covering the small table the Bamboo vase is sitting on is made from paper spun into yarn and woven to make a piece of fabric. I spun the paper from the Sunday Comics and then wove the fabric. This is called Shifu. I also made the bamboo vase from bamboo that was growing near my house when I lived in Georgia.
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Yukio-san, Thank you for detail drawing for the "cyclone" way to make a small stove. I think I understand better now how to do the holes and will try this today. I will see if I can make it work for me. Thank you also for the link to the video of the Cyclone stove in action. The cyclone design is very clever.

Edited by bfornshell on 08/27/2005 06:26:11 MDT.

Hideaki Terasawa
(trsw3) - M

Locale: Tokyo
Re: Japanese influenced (JSB) alcohol stove on 08/27/2005 14:24:04 MDT Print View

Bill-san, how beautiful your Chanoyu!
I am glad that you have deep interest in culture of Japan.

The important thing of the JSB's cyclone flame stove is not only fun but also improvement in the fuel efficiency. JSB suggested that cyclone flame causes 30% decrease of the fuel consumption. It is a sufficient reason to study JSB's for me.
The JSB's cyclone flame stove makes itself to the high temperature condition. The high temperature rather causes increase of the fuel waste. That makes itself burn as a big flame. So, he have proposed to append some water into the alcohol. He have claimed in the summer condition, 30% of water should be added. And he is thinking it should be stirred like a Chanoyu. He named it as 'Matsukaze' in Japanese.
Sorry, its meaning is too difficult and abstract to write in English. Direct transformation to English is 'A breeze among the pine leaves'.

Edited by trsw3 on 08/27/2005 17:03:25 MDT.