Stoves, Tents and Carbon Monoxide - Deadly or not?
Part 6: Measurements on Liquid Fuel Stoves
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Benjamin Smith
(bugbomb) - F - M

Locale: South Texas
Stoves, Tents and Carbon Monoxide - Deadly or not? <br>Part 6: Measurements on Liquid Fuel Stoves on 01/08/2008 22:17:23 MST Print View

Companion forum thread to:

Stoves, Tents and Carbon Monoxide - Deadly or not?
Part 6: Measurements on Liquid Fuel Stoves

Eric Brewer
(enbrewer) - M
Optimus and Svea bring back memories on 01/09/2008 16:02:35 MST Print View

Nice work! It's easy now to see why some of my stoves have worked fairly well and others so poorly over the years.

But your comments on the Optimus reminded me of a trip in the late 60's with a Svea stove when, late in the evening in near total darkness, the red-hot flame spreader deformed and suddenly shot into the air. Of course, my natural reaction (I didn't want to LOSE it!) was to stick out my hand and catch it on the way down. I had a nice 3-corner brand in the palm of my hand for weeks.

Eric Stechmann
(EricStechmann) - F

Locale: Lower Missouri River
. on 01/09/2008 20:41:24 MST Print View

Flame on

Edited by EricStechmann on 01/13/2008 19:53:48 MST.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Stoves/ Sil-Nylon on 01/10/2008 02:10:08 MST Print View

> I just wanted to remind everyone that Sil-Nylon is extremely flammable and burns into a fiery mixture of flame and burning ooze
Two comments.

First of all, you just DON'T prime a liquid fuel stove inside a tent! Seriously!

But I have tested silnylon fabric myself, and I found it far less flammable than PU-coated nylon. It did not burst into a fiery mixture for me - I had to apply flame for a little while to get it to burn in fact. I think it would be best for everyone to conduct their own tests on this matter using any scraps they might have spare. Outside.

Tony Beasley
(tbeasley) - MLife

Locale: Pigeon House Mt from the Castle
Re:Measurements on Liquid Fuel Stoves on 01/10/2008 17:34:10 MST Print View

Hi Roger,

Another great article in the CO series.

Would it be possible to do a companion series of performance/efficiency tests for all of the stoves mentioned in the CO series. This would help us in making a good choice of stove to suit our uses.

The MSR XGK is called “conversation buster” in my circle of walkers. I experienced this in New Pelion Hut on the Overland Track Tasmania, one walker who was walking with his very pregnant wife and young child kept his XGK going for about an hour cooking lunch we found it very noisy and annoying.

Tony

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re:Measurements on Liquid Fuel Stoves on 01/10/2008 22:51:28 MST Print View

Hi Tony

> Would it be possible to do a companion series of performance/efficiency tests for all of the stoves mentioned in the CO series.
I don't have any plans to compare ALL the liquid fuel stoves at this stage. To my mind they are all far too heavy for fully paid-up BPL UL party members ... :-)

I do have some plans to do some comparisons between some of the canister stoves in the not-too-distant future (like within the next 3-6 months). After that ... we'll see what can be done.

> The MSR XGK is called “conversation buster” in my circle
It's been like that for the last 20 odd years! Well, ever since the first version was released.

Cheers
Roger

Einstein X
(EinsteinX) - F

Locale: The Netherlands
Re: Dead Link on 01/11/2008 07:33:37 MST Print View

I tried to click on the Part 5 link on top. It doesn't work.

Eins

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Dead Link on 01/11/2008 13:12:56 MST Print View

> I tried to click on the Part 5 link on top. It doesn't work.
Neither did the links to Parts 2, 3, 4. Sigh.
OK, try again: all fixed.
Thanks for spotting this!
Cheers

Edited by rcaffin on 01/11/2008 13:25:49 MST.

Einstein X
(EinsteinX) - F

Locale: The Netherlands
Re: Re: Re: Dead Link on 01/12/2008 09:46:13 MST Print View

Yep, Now it works.

Eins

Monty Montana
(TarasBulba) - MLife

Locale: Rocky Mountains
Any Plans for Testing Other Stoves ? on 01/18/2008 12:09:36 MST Print View

Roger, well done! I have a couple of the stoves tested in your article - the MSR International and XGK - but seldom use them because of the weight. However, when I forgo an alcohol burner for a gas stove, it's the Brunton Crux that goes with me, a stove that seems popular with many UL hikers, as is the similar Vargo Ti. One feature that caught my attention right away with the crux was how close the pot was to the burner and how wide the flame pattern was, which precluded using small diameter pots like the Snow Peak solo. Anyway, I think the Crux would be a worthy candidate for you to test, given its popularity. Just for grins, I think I'll fiddle with the clearance and see if that improves performance.

Edited by TarasBulba on 01/18/2008 12:11:41 MST.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Any Plans for Testing Other Stoves ? on 01/19/2008 15:00:54 MST Print View

Hi Monty

What you call the Brunton Crux is actually the Optimus Crux. For a while there was a link between the two companies and Brunton marketed the stove as the 'Brunton Optimus Crux'. it is now just the Optimus Crux, and this was included in Part 3 with other canister stoves.

It emitted far too much CO at the factory clearance, but improved with an extra 10 mm. The heating rate was not very high at either clearance.

cheers

Jon Rhoderick
(hotrhoddudeguy) - F - M

Locale: New England
CO reducing idea on 01/20/2008 20:49:34 MST Print View

Is it possible to make a pot, rather like teh bottom of a canister and concave, that would reduce CO emissions from having a smaller area of contact at the CO producing small distances? The curve could be slight to still allow most of the heat absorption, but would probably a pain to clean

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: CO reducing idea on 01/20/2008 21:56:32 MST Print View

Hi Jonathan

> The curve could be slight to still allow most of the heat absorption, but would probably a pain to clean
Hum ... not sure what effect it would have. I admit to reservations.
Making it would be a hassle; cleaning it would be worse!

Hum ...

Larry Risch
(dayhiker) - F
Primus EtaPower Pot - 2.1 Liter on 02/06/2008 00:18:05 MST Print View

Would a pot like this raise the center of the pot enough to reduce the CO, yet retain any heat lost by doing so?

Price and weight wise this might be better than a separate (msr) heat exchanger, and might work better as well.

Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
Re: Primus EtaPower Pot - 2.1 Liter on 02/06/2008 08:12:17 MST Print View

interesting idea in using it to raise the center.... I can't find the pic... but I've seen one of the bottom and the there is a ring under the heat exchanger that would allow the stove legs to not fall inside of the heat exchanger...

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Primus EtaPower Pot - 2.1 Liter on 02/06/2008 17:25:55 MST Print View

> Would a pot like this raise the center of the pot enough to reduce the CO, yet retain any heat lost by doing so?

Don't know ... YET.

ROBERT INCE
(PTARMIGAN) - F
"Stoves, Tents and Carbon Monoxide - Deadly or not? Part 6: Measurements on Liquid Fuel Stoves" on 02/03/2009 01:23:58 MST Print View

Hi,

There appears to be a glitch. The part 6 article ends on the what appears to be the first page - the CO table.

It has been like this since I first tried to access the article two days ago (2009-Feb -01.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: "Stoves, Tents and Carbon Monoxide - Deadly or not? Part 6: Measurements on Liquid Fuel Stoves" on 02/03/2009 02:36:59 MST Print View

Hi Robert

Thanks. I don't know what has happened, but it WILL be fixed!

Cheers

Derek Goffin
(Derekoak)

Locale: North of England
unleaded petrol on 02/03/2009 04:40:58 MST Print View

"Note that while it is possible to use unleaded petrol or auto gas in such a stove, it is very unhealthy and we recommend strongly against doing so."

What is the problem with unleaded? The only time I willingly use my whisperlite is when I go somewhere like Africa, where to my knowledge the only fuel readily available is unleaded. It is usually no problem cooking well away from the tent, in the open, in these circumstances. Is that enough precaution?

ROBERT INCE
(PTARMIGAN) - F
article now fixed - and unleaded petrol on 02/03/2009 10:16:32 MST Print View

Hi Roger,

Yes it is fixed now.

Note for Derek re unleaded petrol....it will, if used a lot, clog up the jet. In Scotland I use Aspen4T, which is a fraction of the cost of Coleman fuel (approx £15/5 litres against £6/500ml for Coleman fuel. Aspen 4T is virtually odourless and is essentially the same as Coleman Fuel/ Naptha. Optimus recommend the alkylate petrols for their petrol stoves.

Aspen fuel see:http://www.aaoil.co.uk/environment-Aspen-4T-alkylate-petrol