I am planning an overnight snowshoe trip and have only Keen Targhee EVent boots, which are not warm enough by themselves. This will just be a 1 mile snowshoe, overnight and 1 mile back. But in the future these trips could be extended in distance and days.

My goals in order:
1) allows me to come back with all my toes
2) inexpensive (<$50 if possible. $100 is about the top of my range)
3) versatile (removable liner?)
4) light weight

since 4 is not #1, maybe I'm asking on the wrong forum :)

Overshoes look nice, but how warm are they? Also they're on the pricier side.

thoughts?

Check out Will R's winter footwear system reports on this website. For snowshoeing (even in the zero degree range), I wear an uninsulated HiTec Event VLite Radar lowtop. I am not a fan of insulated boots unless it gets even further below zero. Here is how I layer my feet for zero degree days while snowshoeing (up to about 20 degrees or so):

1) Seirus Outlast liner sock
2) RBH Designs VBL sock
3) Darn Tough Vermont cushioned hikers (wool)
4) HiTec shoes
5) Crescent Moon neoprene booties
6) Tyvek booties
7) Northern Lite Backcountry snowshoes

I also have Rocky GoreTex socks if it is really messy. They work great. In camp, I use a pair of Feathered Friends down booties and they work wonderfully. I haven't needed to wear a higher pair of overboots, but some people use these. Will discusses them in his articles. My system is much different if it is warmer (20's or 30's) or if I am hiking instead of on my showshoes.

Oops, I don't want to forget gaiters. I wear Montbell stretch gaiters for when their is only a few inches of snow and ID Event Shorties for when there is more. I haven't needed any higher gaiters yet.

Edited by gungadin on 01/02/2008 06:34:16 MST.

How cold do you expect it to be and how durable do you need? For example, I have been good down to 0F with polyester liners, sandwich bags (vapor barrier), heavy weight wool ski socks, waterproof boots or trail runners + gaiters.

Edited by verber on 01/02/2008 13:55:41 MST.

If you absolutly MUST use summer boots/shoes for winter then knee high gaiters will not only add 10F to the warmth of your boots but they also will keep snow from dangerously entering your boot tops and wetting your socks.


HOWSOMEVER...For true winter safety at a reasonable price I recomend good quality felt pac boots. LL Bean and some Canadian bootmakers like Sorrel have good felt pacs. Avoid cheap Wally Mart felt pacs at all costs.

In addition, as sugested in above posts, you need good VBL socks to keep sweat from ruining the insulation value of your felt liners. My choice is seam-sealed thin neoprene socks (found at dive shops) over thin polypro or polyester sock liners. These liners come off at night & dry in your sleeping bag after being turned inside out.

The liner socks go in a dirty clothes sack. Bring enough liners for every day you'll be out - within reason - say 5 or 6 pair. On a true expedition of weeks washing liner socks (and neoprene VBLs) will become necessary.

For THE best winter boots short of double mountaineering boots, which are very expensive, I like Rocky Snow Stalkers that have a removable liner as found in mountaineering boots. These foam liners in the Rocky boots have a few "breathing holes" that must be taped over with good quality duct tape to make them true VBLs.

Again, even with the Rocky Snow Stalkers a good pair of gaiters adds warmth.

Eric

Edited by Danepacker on 01/01/2008 23:30:35 MST.

Hi Jaiden,
For what you described would probably do 1 of 2 things for your trip.

1. light weight, low cut trail runners with gaitor's while hiking in then once stationary change into a down booty with a homemade foot bed made of ensolite pad to insulate bottom of your feet from frozen ground.

2. Pac boots as suggested work great, would bring thick expedition weight socks to change into once you get into camp and have chemical foot warmers on hand as back up.

Also check out the Aerogel insoles. They do help keep the foot somewhat warmer with a much higher r-value than typical insoles. I usually get a solid winter season out of a pair before the break down. They cost about $14.

You may wish to look at a type of overboot as an option. Neos manufactures a number of models that might serve. The weight would be in the area of two pounds, but consider that they are also functioning as a 15 or 20 inch gaitor. The heels are compatible with snow shoes. I have been successfully using the Adventurer model at 2.2 lbs and 15 inches high, but the Trekker at 2 lbs and 20 inches might be better. You would think the things would be very clumsy, but this is not so. They cinch down very nicely; if your shoes fit, the overboot will! They are completely waterproof and certainly they will keep your feet warm. They are not of course ultra light by any means, but let's face it - winter and deep snow can force us to compromise.
Quite aside from backpacking and snowshoeing concerns, these are remarkably useful. If you're in the kind of country where you encounter snow and slush, even if it's in your own driveway, you'll like these overboots.

Cheers

I don't expect to go out if overnight temps are forecast to be below 10F. But, I want to be covered down to -20F or so. My feet are always sweaty. The Keen boots I have are event, but not what one would normally think of as water "PROOF".

I did buy some neoprene toe socks and foot warmers as extra insurance. I will do the produce bag VB thing too.

I'm thinking something like these might work for me, but I haven't been able to find a link on the internet that doesn't loop back to the STP site.
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/,75319_Arctic-Cat-Pac-Boots-Expedition-For-Men.html

But then, I'm not sure how comfortable they would be to walk or snowshoe in.

I appreciate all the recommendations. I will have a VB plan for my feet.

I did consider the NEOS, which look really cool but were pretty expensive. I like the stabilicers, but I thought they might wreck my snowshoes. The insulated ones are almost 3.5 lb and while the tall uninsulated ones seem really cool I can't help but feel that I'd need more warmth. Also, they're pricey. So I decided against them for now, but do see their value in a well stocked arsenal.

I went shopping at Dick's yesterday.

I browsed the hunting section and I tried on some cheap -40F Quest boots with removable liners for $45 which seemed fine. But with these, I felt like I would need to carry another pair of boots in case they got too hot. This goes against my (bpl inspired) philosophy.

Then I spotted a pair of Keen -25F primaloft boots which were nearly identical to the Targhee boots I wore into the store. I knew these would be comfortable for me and they were actually my size (whereas the ones I wear regularly are a half size too large) Best of all they were more than half off at $60! So it didn't take me long to decide that with these I wouldn't need anything else. I have gaiters to help out with their height. I would prefer a removable liner, but as I said I think -40F would be overkill. Also the Quest boots made no mention of breathability and I know that the EVent used in the Keens is pretty good. If they had been regularly priced, I might have gone with the cheaper single purpose boots, but these seem like a good fit. I also expect I could push them under -25F in a pinch using the VB techniques suggested here.

So, again thanks to everyone who chimed in. I appreciate that my newbie questions get such good attention here among SUL gurus.

It sounds like you got a pair of Keen Growlers? If so, then you got them for an excellent price. I paid $112 for mine. This is an excellent boot. Surprisingly warm, very comfortable, and not too heavy. My toes get cold in trail runners in the winter and my summer trail shoes aren't big enough to layer bulky winter socks, so my Growlers have become my general purpose cold weather shoe, if there's snow or if not (usually not). The main thing I like about them is the fit. I have high arches, but a relatively short foot. In most shoes, I have to size up to a size 9 to be comfortable (New Balance shoes are the exception and I fit well into a 7.5 with them). The Growlers reportedly run about a half to a whole size small for everybody, so wearing an 8.5 in the Keens means the proportions are right and everything fits as well as it should, and with an insulated boot, I don't have to worry about layering thick socks and trying to cram my over-layered foot into a too-small shoe. The boot itself does all the insulating I need.

Edited by beenay25 on 01/03/2008 10:55:18 MST.

Correct! They are the Growlers and even the $112 you paid would have been a good deal. I think they go for $130 normally. But Dick's is blowing out their winter gear. I'll post another message on the gear deals page. Everyone should check out this sale.

My wife and I have the Keen Growlers as well and just used them for several days of snowshoeing in 7F with windchill down to -11F in Northern Vermont. I much prefer winter shoes that are rated to -25F, rather than shoes rated to -40, because -25F shoes like the Growlers will work well for you in late fall and early spring, and when it's very cold, you can extend their warmth with 1) an overboot like the Neos Trekker or one of the Forty Below overboots http://www.40below.com/products_Results_overboots.php?S_CategoryName=overboots ; and/or 2) 3-4 mm Neoprene booties like the Crescent Moon, which go over the Growlers. You can wear the booties alone, or if you get big enough overboots, you can wear the booties over the boots inside the overboots.

With this setup, we can use the Growlers late fall to early spring.

For the recent conditions we had in Vermont (which included 18 in. snow in about a day), the Neos Trekker over just the Growlers was fine.

However, we exchanged our Neos Trekkers and are picking up Forty Below overboots, because the Neos Trekkers don't stretch and didn't have a lot of height allowance in the front, and in order to work with neoprene booties underneath, we would have had to size way up (and even then it could have been tight). I have a size 11 foot, typically wear a size 11.5 hiking boot and wear a 12 in the Keen Growlers - I needed an XL Trekker rated size 11-13, and even then there was just enough room to squeeze the boot in. I should note the Trekker was meant for warmer weather use, such as fly fishing and river running.

Goto "Gear Spotlites" and search "Baffin Boots".

For a low-buck solution, you might give the ArcticShield Boot Insulators a try. I got a pair for Christmas, but haven't tried them out yet. I suspect you will want a VBL sock to avoid soaking your boots and insulating socks, as I suspect they are not breathable. They come in black, but are apparently sold out except in camo at Cabelas. They should work with most snowshoe bindings, but probably not crampons. Or you could carry them with for when you arrive at camp.

Edited by jbrinkmanboi on 01/06/2008 22:01:55 MST.

I agree about the Keen Growlers. I bought a pair this fall and they are very warm and keep my feet dry when in the snow and fording low streams. I'm very happy with them. I bought a pair in my size...not 1/2 larger as suggested, and this has worked well. I just wear a pair of Smartwool socks and my feet are toasty. Coldest I wore them was in the low teens with snow. I did find them smaller than most boots but still fit my foot just fine.