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jon goldsmith
(jegsmith) - F
Pot size for melting snow on 12/14/2007 11:40:11 MST Print View

Im starting to get into winter backpacking and am looking into pots. Would a 1.3 liter pot be big enough for melting snow for one or occasionally two people?

Steven Nelson
(slnsf) - MLife

Locale: Northern California
Re: Pot size for melting snow on 12/14/2007 22:44:15 MST Print View

In my experience, yes. Which stove are you using it with?

Michael Martin
(MikeMartin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: North Idaho
Re: Pot size for melting snow on 12/14/2007 23:21:52 MST Print View

Yah, I agree with Steve.

btw, it's a bit of a jigsaw puzzle, but a Colman Xtreme Stove and a 170g powermax cartridge will just fit inside a snowpeak 1.3L Trek pot w/ lid -- the perfect Winter Solo Overnight Snowmelt kit.trek pot with Xtreme and Fuel

Forrest G McCarthy
(forrestmccarthy) - MLife

Locale: Planet Earth
pot size on 12/17/2007 18:26:41 MST Print View

When solo, or with one other person, I use a MSR Titan Titanium 1.3 Liter Pot. With groups of 2 to 4 people I use an Evernew Titanium 4 Liter pot. I do enjoy a larger pot when having to melt snow for water.

For cooking, especially on extended trips, I prefer a white gas stove. I am currently using a MSR Simmerlight. I have had maintenance issues with the Simmerlight after heavy use. I use a .3 liter or .7 liter titanium fuel bottle. Extra fuel is stored in a Platypus bladder. A metal avalanche shovel is used as a stove board.

1.5 Liter Pot
1.5 liter pot packed
1.5 liter pot and contents
4 liter pot
4 liter pot packed
4 liter pot and contents

Edited by forrestmccarthy on 12/17/2007 18:34:49 MST.

Doug Johnson
(djohnson) - MLife

Locale: Washington State
Re: Pot size for melting snow on 12/17/2007 20:59:23 MST Print View

I have a MSR Titan 2L pot that I love for melting snow. It is wide and has great capacity. I wouldn't want a smaller pot when trying to melt a lot of snow.

Here's a secret trick. Get an Outback Oven Pot Parka. This 3.4 ounce (in the 10" size) item covers the pot, retaining a lot of heat and insulating the pot. It increases melting effeciency substancially and is a fantastic tool. It quickly is worth the weight compated to the extra fuel you'd carry without it.

http://www.backpackerspantry.com/prodinfo.asp?number=POT%20PARKA

The MSR Heat Exchanger, however, doesn't work. At least that's what I've found in my field tests and also in those done by others. In these tests it was found to INCREASE boiling times. This makes sense, actually, when you consider that heat exchangers are typically used to dissapate heat due to increased surface area.

Forrest G McCarthy
(forrestmccarthy) - MLife

Locale: Planet Earth
Pot Parka on 12/17/2007 21:14:19 MST Print View

Doug,

Thanks for the tip. I just ordered one.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
JetBoil 1.5 L. pot on 12/19/2007 16:07:00 MST Print View

I own a Jetboil 1.5 L. pot &, from it's faster boil times I know that this year I'll be able to use it to advantage in snow melting - WITH an MSR foil windscreen for my Dragonfly stove, of course.

So far I have not discovered anything with the efficiency of the "Flux Ring" heat exchanger on the bottom of the JetBoil pot. It's the heart of their system's efficiency.

If you'ns (a W. PA term. heh.heh) know of any pot out there with MORE efficiency than the JetBoil pot please speak up.

Eric
P.S. I agree with Doug about the Pot Parka. I have used one for many winters and it works great IF you remember to loosen the foil windscreen some so the heat doesn't singe the bottom of the fiberglass fabric of the Pot Parka. (Don't ask me how I know this.)

Edited by Danepacker on 12/21/2007 12:07:40 MST.

tkkn c
(tkknc) - MLife

Locale: Desert Rat in the Southwest
Re: Re: Pot size for melting snow on 12/19/2007 17:22:09 MST Print View

"The MSR Heat Exchanger, however, doesn't work. At least that's what I've found in my field tests and also in those done by others. In these tests it was found to INCREASE boiling times. This makes sense, actually, when you consider that heat exchangers are typically used to dissapate heat due to increased surface area."
I have read the same thing, but when I tested it for myself I got quicker boil times with the heat exchanger. I used an XKG stove and I made sure that the heat exchanger extended 1 inch below the pots bottoms surface. When the heat exchanger was not extended below the pots bottom surface, I did not get significantly faster boil times.

Edited by tkknc on 12/19/2007 20:22:09 MST.

Brian James
(bjamesd) - F

Locale: South Coast of BC
Re: Pot size for melting snow on 12/19/2007 18:10:52 MST Print View

The new Primus ETA pots look awesome for snow melting -- 1L, 2L, or 3L at *reasonable* weights. They include a jetboil-style "flux ring" on the bottom to speed heating.

If you believe the Primus hype, they increase efficiency by 50%. I'm waiting for someone to try out the 2L and report back.

Since snow melting involves so much energy transfer, the savings of "efficiency adders" like flux rings and outback oven tents become net gains much more quickly than on a summer trip.



Primus also has an all-fuel version of the ETA stove coming out in January. It's like the one Roger reviewed (hyper efficient, low CO) but it accepts white gas and diesel/kero as well. Sound like a perfect high-efficiency, set-it-and-forget-it winter stove.

Brian

PS I always wondered why the MSR Titan pot (8oz.) sells at all, when the AGG 2L pot is 6oz. Have I got those weights wrong?

Edited by bjamesd on 12/19/2007 18:52:31 MST.

Forrest G McCarthy
(forrestmccarthy) - MLife

Locale: Planet Earth
Re: Pot size for melting snow on 12/19/2007 18:59:54 MST Print View

“I always wondered why the MSR Titan pot (8oz.) sells at all, when the AGG 2L pot is 6oz. Have I got those weights wrong?” Brian James

Probably more then anything else – marketing. MSR products are more available. Titanium does have advantages over aluminum. Aluminum is suspected to be linked to Alzheimers. Titanium dissipates heat much faster, making pots easier to handle.

The Primus Pots are very interesting. I am equally interested in the new ETA stove. I would love to have high efficiency stove that burned white gass.

Edited by forrestmccarthy on 12/19/2007 19:26:16 MST.

Kenneth Knight
(kenknight) - MLife

Locale: SE Michigan
Re: Pot size for melting snow on 12/20/2007 00:12:12 MST Print View

Better late than never. Ibagree that a 1.3 liter pot will be enough to melt snow. You may have to pay close attention to it - more so than with a bigger pot but that's not a big deal. Remember to start out with a bit of water in the pot to melt the snow in. Also I have found pot costs very handy in the winter to help conserve on fuel.

Ken

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Pot size for melting snow on 12/20/2007 02:26:45 MST Print View

Hi Forrest

There is a Spotlite on the MSR Ti pots on the web site - check it out. It includes the following statement:
" a 1.5 litre pot at 115 grams (4.06 oz). There is a tight-fitting lid (58 grams, 2.05 oz) for the 1.5 litre pot as well "
So I am not sure where the 8 oz comes from.

> Aluminum is suspected to be linked to Alzheimers.
Urban myth, long since debunked. Check it at Snopes.com.

> Titanium dissipates heat much faster, making pots easier to handle.
Ah, not quite. Titanium pots have far thinner walls and so less metal than any of the others, so the smaller amount of metal in a Ti pot holds less heat. This is why they seem to cool faster.

ETA stove with gas canister - a very nice combo for three people in the snow. A bit heavy for one or two perhaps, but a smaller/lighter unit is coming I believe.

Cheers

Tony Wong
(Valshar) - MLife

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Oven Pot Parka on 12/27/2007 14:15:02 MST Print View

Doug or anyone else:

I have a MSR Whisperlite white gas stove and a 2 L MSR Duralite pot.

I have been using the MSR heat exchanger, but I am intrigued.

When you use the Oven Pot Parka, is it "tall" enough to fully enclose the pot and the stove?

Or does it just cover the pot down to the bottom sides of the pot?

My concern is that the heat/flames from the stove will cause the Pot Parka to melt or burn.

Thanks for any feed back that you can provide.

I am venturing out in January on my 1st snow trip via the Sierra Club's Winter Camping Class.

tkkn c
(tkknc) - MLife

Locale: Desert Rat in the Southwest
pot parka on 12/27/2007 14:44:26 MST Print View

Tony hopefully these pictures will help

"When you use the Oven Pot Parka, is it "tall" enough to fully enclose the pot and the stove?"

There are multiple sizes of pot parkas. The pictures show
two on a 2 liter pot on a MSR XGK stove.
pot parka 1

tkkn c
(tkknc) - MLife

Locale: Desert Rat in the Southwest
pot parka 2 on 12/27/2007 14:45:46 MST Print View

pot parka 2

tkkn c
(tkknc) - MLife

Locale: Desert Rat in the Southwest
Pot Parka 3 on 12/27/2007 14:49:20 MST Print View

The bigger pot parka is shorter than the smaller diameter pot parka.

pot parka 3

They will burn. They discolor slightly and really smell bad when they burn. I have only burned the smaller diameter one.

burned pot parka

Tony Wong
(Valshar) - MLife

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Photos of the Oven Pot Parka on 12/27/2007 16:03:48 MST Print View

Ken,

Thank you so much for posting those pictures.

Do you use your MSR Heat Exchanger with the Pot Parka or have you subsituted the Pot Parka for the Heat Exchanger?

Have you found the Pot Parka is more "efficient" than the heat exchanger?

My experience during 3 season backpacking is that the heat exchanger reduces the time it takes for me to heat up food and water for hot drinks.

P.S. One of the things that I love about this forum and this group of people is how willing and eager to share information with their fellow BPLer's.

tkkn c
(tkknc) - MLife

Locale: Desert Rat in the Southwest
Re: Re: Photos of the Oven Pot Parka on 12/27/2007 17:13:09 MST Print View

I usually use the heat exchanger with the pot parka, but I use it to keep from burning the pot parka. It keeps the wind from pushing the parka close to the stoves flame. I wrap the wind screen around the pot parka. The standard wind screen will not fit around a two liter pot and the pot parka.

I tried testing the boiling times using the pot parka, but was having issues getting data. Since every time you want to check if the water is boiling you have to lift off the parka. I think you would need to thermo-couple up a pot to see if the two together made a better system or not.

In winter it takes a long time to melt water for a family of four, so I have been experimenting.

What do other people use for melting water for 4 or more people?

Edited by tkknc on 12/27/2007 17:14:19 MST.