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David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Heineken Stove - 1.83 oz. on 08/21/2005 18:53:20 MDT Print View

Ok... I just finished making a Heineken stove. Here's the specs if you're interested:

Pot: 27 grams
Lid (top of can): 6 grams
Windscreen/Stand: 12 grams
Stove (MoGo FireFly): 6 grams

I did not include the weight of the tent stakes as they are dual purpose... I count that weight with my tarp. But the stakes add another 12-16 grams depending on the brand.

The lid is the cut off can top with a paper clip for a handle. The Windscreen/stand is made from a disposable cookie sheet and it's height is as high as possible while still being able to stow it inside the can. Possible additions include a bail, cozy and primer cup/esbit stand. The bail would be very helpful for lifting a can full of hot water off your stove!!! The cozy would be handy for drinking/handling. Of these options, I'd say that the cozy would add the most weight. The bail is a must have. I will add that tomorrow. When it comes to picking up scaling hot water, I think the bail would be worth every gram.



The extra few small holes you see BTW are mistakes :)

Edited by davidlewis on 08/21/2005 18:54:38 MDT.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Heineken Stove - 1.83 oz. on 08/21/2005 19:13:53 MDT Print View

First test didn't go so well... windscreen melted... LOL :) I aborted before getting a boil. I don't think the firefly is getting enough air... esp. on the front side which has no holes. That's the side that melted. Gonna try a new version with a bigger gap and a lower height. Also... maybe a few more holes closer to the front. Right now there are only holes on 50% of the screen. I may extend that to 65% or so.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Heineken Stove on 08/21/2005 19:44:57 MDT Print View

David, It looks good and is light. I am sure you will work out the amount of air holes necessary.

When I cut the lid off the Heineken can I will try and do it without pulling the tab.

I just noticed the Apple on your computer. I have 3 Mac's. One is old but still really good for anything not connected to the internet, one is newer, and I just got a new Lap Top.

Edited by bfornshell on 08/21/2005 19:49:10 MDT.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Heineken Stove on 08/21/2005 19:52:34 MDT Print View

Bill... I think part of the problem may just be the small diameter of a beer can setup. What you end up with is a windscreen that is VERY close to the flames. In fact, the flames were hitting the aluminum. And this is a tiny stove made from a "1 shot" V8 juice can. Perhaps this is another reason why the ultralight outfitters stove uses stainless steel? They've already figured all this out :) It's more fun to figure it out on your own tho'... lol.

With regards to removing the top... what I did was to pull the tab every so slightly... just enough to barely break the seal and let the pressure out while leaving the drinking port still secured. It's nicer than having beer fizz out all over your can opener and down the side of the can.

Edited by davidlewis on 08/21/2005 19:56:23 MDT.

Jim Colten
(jcolten)

Locale: MN
inserting an active hyperlink into a forum msg on 08/21/2005 20:22:11 MDT Print View

Bill,


How to create an active link here .... If you want


rings on ebay


to take you to


http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsassZbigcojones


then put this


<br><a href="http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsassZbigcojones">rings on ebay</a><br>


into your msg.

Edited by jcolten on 08/22/2005 02:45:50 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
inserting an active hyperlink....... on 08/21/2005 20:48:28 MDT Print View

Jim Colten, I really appreciate you showing me how to do this. I have been trying to figure this out for the longest time. I lucked onto adding pictures but I could never make the web link thing work. One thing I see is that you can not make any Typo's.

It seems to be working with the double

but I will change it to one
.

I was working on the message with the YACC Stove link on it and it is working.

Thank you very much.

Daniel Goldenberg
(dag4643) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwet
Re: Heineken Stove - 1.83 oz. on 08/21/2005 21:53:21 MDT Print View

David,
I like how that lid came out, especially with the paper clip for a handle. I may have to go and buy another Fosters or Heineken can to make a similar lid.

By the way, I'm not sure how hot the paperclip gets, but if you want to further refine the lid you can get a little bit of shrink tubing (like the kind you use for wiring) and insert the paper clip into it, then heat it with a heat gun or other heat source so it wraps tightly around the paper clip. You will end up with an insulated "pot lid handle" similar to the one on the lid of an MSR titan kettle. The tiny bit of shrink tubing probably won't even register on a scale. I've done this with foil lids and it works pretty good.

Dan

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: inserting an active hyperlink....... on 08/22/2005 02:03:57 MDT Print View

Bill,

one correction to the example of an active hyperlink. you need to end the anchor using the standard HTML tag ending format, viz.

it consists of the following sequence of characters without the commas or spaces separating them:
<, /, a, > - you use the 'a' in this case since it's an "anchor". likewise, you would use a 'b' if you were making it bold.

the best way to learn how to do this is to:
1) find a hyperlink in a post.
2) make a note of some or all of the text of the hyperlink
3) using your browser's View->Page Source pull-down menu choice (note: the wording of this menu choice may vary depending upon which Browser you're using, but you're clever and will figure this out i'm sure)
4) search the page source text for the text of the hyperlink that you noted in step #2 above.
5) look carefully how that hyperlink was implemented - copy it & paste it into your message (note: you may need to use the ctrl-c and ctrl-v key combos to do the copy and paste AFTER selecting/marking, using the mouse, the Anchor text that you want to copy. also, the context sensitive short-cut menu may be active. if it is, then you can just select the Anchor & use your secondary mouse button - if using Windows. Not sure how you do all this on a Mac)
6) modify the URL or address portion of the 'anchor' (the part between the dbl-quote)
7) modify the text that will be displayed, e.g. change it from >My Hyperlink to >Bill's Hyperlink, or some such text as appropriate.

Hope this helps.

Edited by pj on 08/22/2005 09:15:21 MDT.

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: UltraLight Outfitters Stove Stuff on 08/22/2005 02:12:49 MDT Print View

Bill,

try putting the can of beer in the freezer for 20min to get it colder. don't let it freeze though.

then, take it out & cut the lid off. this may stop or eliminate altogether any gases coming out of solution. also, open it in the sink to minimize any potential mess.

i've done this, in the past, with bottles and cans of soda that have been dropped or shaken up, or just gotten too warm. works real well.

Edited by pj on 08/22/2005 02:13:25 MDT.

Jim Colten
(jcolten)

Locale: MN
Re: Re: inserting an active hyperlink....... on 08/22/2005 02:55:31 MDT Print View

ACK! Sorry about that typo. I've edited the original post to correct it.

It ain't nearly as easy to include an example of HTML in a web page as it is to make a functional hyperlink.

This version might be easier to follow than the previous one:


<br><a href="insert URL here">insert the text you want to be visible here</a><br>

Edited by jcolten on 08/22/2005 03:07:37 MDT.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Re: Heineken Stove - 1.83 oz. on 08/22/2005 04:27:52 MDT Print View

Daniel: It does get a little hot. I was going to get one of those plastic coated paper clips today and cut a bit of the plastic off where it threads into the two holes I drilled in the lid and try that. I don't think it would get hot enough to melt... but if so... the shrink wrap tubing is a great idea! Thanks. The only thing I don't like is that it doesn't fold down for packing. I'd like to figure out a simple way to have it fold down or removed for stowing but stand up while cooking. It weighs more than foil of course... 6 grams :P

Bill: Unless you plan to use the lid as a primer pan it doesn't have to be leakproof. As a lid, the can top doesn't seal tight anyway... it just kinda sits on top. You want some steam to escape anyway. That's why I pryed the tab just enough to let the pressure out but not to break the hole all the way around. But if you do want to not break the hole at all... the sink would be a good idea :) The chilling idea is cool too (har har) :P

Jim's recent post about links is easier to follow. Just remember <a href=""></a> and copy/paste the URL into the quotes and type whatever you want for the link text within the open and close anchor tags. The <br> tags add line breaks. As a reminder, 'a' stands for anchor and 'href' stands for hypertext reference... I think... as in http... hypertext transmission protocal :) So you're basically saying, "I'm putting an anchor here and this is the reference (i.e. link)".

The dude who invented that yet another coke can stove needs to get himself a good cook can opener :) (or a Rosle or Cuisipro).

Edited by davidlewis on 08/22/2005 04:33:50 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters Stove Stuff on 08/22/2005 05:35:30 MDT Print View

David, My Fosters can lid still has the tab attached and I pushed it back down flat so I think I could use it as a lid with a small vent if I wanted to. You know that a true "Gram Weenie" would use a something like a zipper pull on the Cook Pot Lid. Take it off the zipper, use it for the lid, put it back on the zipper and hike on. In warm weather I only use a zipper pull on my sleeping bag/quilt. I use a few more zipper pulls when it is cold enough to need gloves.

I went through all my post that had a web link on them and changed them all to an "active" link. It is easy to do once you have a good example. I think I can do it from memory now. I wrote down the sequence and taped it to the inside of my top desk drawer. You know the old saying "a short pencil is better than a short memory". I was 65 years old yesterday so I have a lot of short pencils around. I need a lot as I always seem to forget where I put them..

I should send Ray a link to the Ultralite Outfitters web site and direct him to the section about the can opener. One of the things I think he was trying to do with the YACC stove was to make something really easy and could be made with the least number of tools. Things you might have with you on a hiking trip so when you step on your stove you can just make another one.

Edited by bfornshell on 08/22/2005 05:51:06 MDT.

Daniel Goldenberg
(dag4643) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwet
Re: Re: Re: Heineken Stove - 1.83 oz. on 08/22/2005 07:49:22 MDT Print View

David,
Sounds like plastic coated paper clips are the way to go, I didn't realize you could get those.

Re: Stowing the paperclip. It's easy to do. The way I've done it on foil lids is as follows: I first make the lid handle, shaping it into a "U" shape. I then bend the ends that will go into the pot lid a little less than 90 degrees and insert the ends into two small holes in the lid. After you insert the ends into the lid you can bend them again so the clip doesn't come out of the lid as easy but that's optional.

The lid handle can now fold down against the lid for flat packing. When you are going to use the lid you just rotate it 90 degrees till the part inside the lid hits the bottom portion of the lid to keep it from rotating and the lid handle will stay upright.

Not sure If I'm explaining this well but I can try to take a picture later and post it if it's not to clear.

Daniel Goldenberg
(dag4643) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwet
Re: Re: Re: Re: Heineken Stove - 1.83 oz. on 08/22/2005 20:21:14 MDT Print View

Here is the lid handle I made for a foil lid for use with a SP600 pot. Made from paper clip and heat shrink tubing.

bottom view is with handle upright.










Cheers

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Heineken Success! on 08/23/2005 20:17:48 MDT Print View

After a number of design changes and failed attempts (including one melted windscreen) I finally acheived success tonight. I got 2 cups of water up to a rolling boil for 2-3 minutes... and no melted aluminum :) Total weight of the system (minus tent stakes) is 54 grams... but I still have to add a bail to the can so it's easy to get your hot water off the stove.. so in the end it will be a little over 2 oz. I think the Heineken can is robust enough to survive the backpack without a stainless steel windscreen as a wrapper.

I just added my new creation to my gear list... and get this... this cooking system... pot, lid, windscreen, stand, burner and all... is the same weight as my socks... LOL!!!!!!!!!

Edited by davidlewis on 08/23/2005 20:55:04 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Heineken Stove and Others on 08/23/2005 21:23:55 MDT Print View

Congratulations David. I haven't had a melt down yet with my stove but I have had a few really good ones. All my fire related test are done outside.

I have been looking for stuff packaged in small and unusual Aluminum cans. I found a Japanese web site with some very interesting small stoves on it.
here is a link to it:
Japanese Stove Link
I want to make a few along the same line as these are. It is to bad the site is only in Japanese. I did find a link with some English but not really enough. The pictures say enough for me to get started. While all the stoves seem to work I don't know if they would fall into the catagory of backpacking stoves. Some look like they are light but how light do they need to be. It just might be fun to carry and cook on one even if it weighed a few ounces.

I would like to hear from anyone that looks at this site and read your comments. A competition may be in order - Small "Unusual" Cooking Stoves as the next Olympic Event. Rules negotiable. Prize donations appreciated, Management and Staff.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: Heineken Success!! on 08/23/2005 21:26:59 MDT Print View

Please do post a picture of the complete system. Would love to see the final product you've put together. I think I will probably go with something similar instead of ordering the Ultralight Outfitters' Beercan Stove. This has been an interesting thread... and your suggestions have been very helpful!

Daniel Goldenberg
(dag4643) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwet
Re: Heineken Stove and Others on 08/23/2005 21:59:02 MDT Print View

David,
It truly is amazing that you can have a stove/windcreen AND Pot with lid for 2.0 oz. I used to think my Snow Peak 600 mug was light at 2.8 oz!

Bill,
I stumbled on that web page a while back. I must have spent hours looking at all the designs. That stove down a ways that looks like a turbo charger made with a Pocari Sweat can looks interesting. If you back up that url (in the address window of your browser backspace over the "krono15.htm" and hit enter it gets you to the parent page. There are a bunch of links to the left with even more stoves and modifications. Some really interesting stuff.

There are several translating pages available that you can use. Try this one: http://www.google.com/language_tools

paste the URL down at the bottom and select Japanese to English and it will translate the page. Even the links that you click on will get translated. Unfortunately the translation is not always very good and sometimes hilarious but you might get an idea what they are talking about.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Japanese Stoves on 08/23/2005 22:05:14 MDT Print View

Wow! Bill, I just scroll through the site and was very impressed! For me living in Japan nearly all the materials that he showed are very easily available at any ¥100 discount store. Some fantastic ideas I never thought about, like using a kitchen sink drain screen as a pot stand. I've thought many times about using aluminum bottles to make a stove but could never quite figure out how to use the bottle neck opening. And some of the names of the stoves are great! Like "Ikaros Pantheon" (Ikaros would be "Icharus" in English), because of the column-like pot stands, and the "On-the-Rocks" Stove, because it uses pebbles inside. He also has a much-improved version of Ray Garlington's Wood Gas stove, which I'd like to try out. And one of the alchohol stoves weighs only 6 grams!!!

I haven't had time yet to really go through the page carefully, but there's a lot of food for thought there. How did you ever find the page???

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Other Stoves on 08/24/2005 00:05:06 MDT Print View

I have been to one of the 100yen stores in Kyoto many times. I found the Japanese Stove web site as a link on the Zen Stove web site. I found it a couple of days ago when I was looking at soda can designs.

I have just spent a couple of hours clicking on every active link I could find and got back to the basic home page.

As for the mod. Ray Garlington stove I haven't found it yet but here is a wood stove I made and use. I made it a couple of years ago it seems. It has been posted a few places and works really well. It is also light if you don't count the battery used for the fan.

I have worked with clay (a Potter) for about 35 years and have made several pottery kilns. With a little knowledge of combustion I designed the air inlet on the side of the stove to blow the air in so it would swirl around inside the stove and stay inside the stove longer than if it was just blown in from the bottom. The longer the air is inside the stove the hotter the flame. The"Sweat something" stove on the Japanese site uses the same idea I think. The basket looking thing is inside to hold the wood to give the air room to blow around the inside of the stove. I use a 9 volt battery on a small 12 volt computer fan. The 9 volt lets the fan run just a little slower which I think is better. One idea I had to get rid of the fan is to use a balloon. Get a piece of tubing and plug the hot end. Then drill a small hole. Then blow up a balloon and attach it to the cold end of the tubing. Let the air from the balloon blow into the stove very slow but with enough air to help the wood burn. If the balloon is big enough and the hole small enough the air should last long enough to get the fire going OK. If I used 2 balloons I could replace the empty with a full one etc etc. Is it worth saving the weight of the battery, I don't think so.

If you look at the last picture and see the ring around the top of the basket. The first one was light aluminum and I am going to replace it with one made out of Stainless Steel or Titanium one of these days.

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Edited by bfornshell on 08/24/2005 00:13:10 MDT.