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Ryan Jordan
(ryan) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Greater Yellowstone
Ultralight Outfitters Beer Can Stove System for Esbit Fuel on 08/12/2005 12:22:44 MDT Print View

Companion thread to the Outdoor Retailer Summer Market 2005 Dispatch:

Ultralight Outfitters Ultralight Beer Can Esbit Stove System

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters Beer Can Cook pot Stove. on 08/12/2005 13:11:02 MDT Print View

I have mine on order. It should work well with my Fosters Beer Can Cook Pot cozy.

Ryan, do you think the Titanium Foil stuff you sell?? would make a lighter wind screen? I will check the SS weight with the Titanium I have when I can check the size of the windscreen that comes with this stove.

Ben Lyon
(Dynamo) - F
Re: UltraLight Outfitters Beer Can Cook pot Stove. on 08/12/2005 16:20:39 MDT Print View

In Alabama, I don't have access to the larger beer cans. Next time I am out of state, I plan to pick up a few. I was intrigued with the idea after viewing Zenstoves.net. UL, cheap, easy to make, what else could you ask for?

Michael Martin
(MikeMartin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: North Idaho
Weight on 08/12/2005 19:34:52 MDT Print View

Hey, does that 3.8oz weight include the beer can?

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters Beer Can Cook pot Stove. on 08/13/2005 00:13:33 MDT Print View

Ben, Have you looked at Wal Mart. I got my Fosters Beer Can at my local Wal Mart.

I got my can opener at Walgreens. It is the "good cook" Safe Cut and worked perfect.

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Ti foil windscreens on 08/13/2005 09:06:18 MDT Print View

Is Ti foil for a windscreen a good idea?

I don't really know. Here's what I'm thinking.

Generally, Ti alloys provide two important advantages over other metals: better fatigue characteristics, and better strength-to-weight ratio. Are either of these really important to a windscreen?

Pros:
1) Ti foil should be more durable than Al foil. That is you can bend it more often (i.e. cycle it, or fold & unfold it) than Al foil before it fatigues and develops cracks. I don't like to fold flat Al foil over-and-over. I try to roll, in some fashion, my Al windscreen. I try to never make sharp folds/creases in Al (foil, or otherwise) if I want it to last a long time. Now..., I haven't actually done any controlled experiments. These comments are just based upon the inherent properties of these metals/alloys.
2) For a similar thickness (or less), it should be stronger than Al foil and shouldn't rip as easily.

Cons:
1) Does one really need the extra strength & durability in a non-load bearing item?
2) While Ti is twice as strong as Al, it is also ~60% heavier. I may be able to get by with a lighter weight Al foil windscreen, i.e. lighter than what a stronger Ti windscreen might weigh. So, if a thin Al foil windscreen suffices, is Ti really necessary? Perhaps, for a lengthy Thru-Hike??? Couldn't an Al (foil, or slightly thicker) windscreen be "repaired" with some duct tape on the outside if it fails during a lengthy Thru-Hike?

Bottom Line:
What are we talking about here? Besides the durability issue for a lengthy Thru-Hike, are we talking about saving a fraction of an ounce? For example, windscreens, like those used in the two Mo-Go-Gear stoves sold by Gossamer Gear, weigh 16gm and 26gm. These are of much heavier construction than heavy duty kitchen foil.


Now I'm NOT the sharpest tool in the shed, so...what am I missing here?

Edited by pj on 08/13/2005 09:23:26 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters Beer Can Cook pot Stove. on 08/13/2005 09:45:58 MDT Print View

When I first read about this stove I thought I read that the windscreen was made of Stainless Steel and I thought something else should be lighter. Now it seems the windscreen might be made out of Aluminum. What ever it is made out of when I get mine I will weigh the windscreen and then see if I have anything lighter. The windscreen might even be made out of that Aluminum "flashing" stuff. I agree that Aluminun foil could work fine. I have my neoprene pot cozy and can pack it all inside that when I am not using it and replace the Aluminum foil when ever I need to. It isn't like Aluminum foil is hard to find.

The stove maker states that the windscreen can become an outer liner for the cook pot when the cook pot is used to drink out of and then it turns into an insulated mug. This might be a bit of a stretch but it is a way to justify the extra weight of a heavier material.

I just have to wait till I get one and let the gram-weenie take over. I will just weigh all my alternatives and go from there.

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: UltraLight Outfitters Beer Can Cook pot Stove. on 08/13/2005 09:53:28 MDT Print View

I guess, theoretically (i say "theoretically" simply b/c i don't know how thin Ti foil is made) one could get some very thin Ti foil that is thinner than Al foil, having the same strength as thicker Al foil, and weighing less than the thicker Al foil.

If this was obtainable, then for both fatigue characteristics, and a small wt. savings, the Ti foil might be worth it.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Re: UltraLight Outfitters Beer Can Cook pot Stove. on 08/14/2005 06:49:26 MDT Print View

paul wrote:

"I guess, theoretically (i say "theoretically" simply b/c i don't know how thin Ti foil is made) one could get some very thin Ti foil that is thinner than Al foil, having the same strength as thicker Al foil, and weighing less than the thicker Al foil."

Interestingly enough, that's exactly what Frank Gehry did when he built the Gugenheim in Bilbao spain :) The original plans spec'ed a stainless steel cladding... but he found it looked too harsh in the mediterranian sun... so he tried some samples of other materials and found that Titanium was much warmer and even appeared to change color in different lights (i.e. sunset). It was twice the cost of stainless but also twice the strength, so he used half the thickness and it came out even :)

I think what's really great about this stove... ingenious even... is the integration. It's like a Jetboil with anorexia... as Jordan says. The way it packs up is nice... the way the windscreen does double duty as an insulation wall... etc. The Esbit... I'm not completely sold on. I've never used it, but it seems like a good idea... lighter than alcohol... can double as an emergency firestarter... no mess no fuss to carry... etc. But I figure if I don't like it... it would be just as easy to use my MoGo gear firefly (distance from pot to burner seems about right for a firefly) or similar lightweight alcohol stove with this unit... and it would still weigh less than my current FireFly/Windscreen/Reflector/Stand/MSR Titan combo... which is not integrated at all... it's a bunch of loose parts.

The only thing I wonder about is that the windscreen seems like a pretty tight fit... small air gap... and it has no air holes in the bottom. Maybe that's because of the way esbit burns... I have no idea. Perhaps using it with an alcohol stove would require punching a few air holes???

Edited by davidlewis on 08/14/2005 07:04:45 MDT.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Light pot / heavy screen on 08/14/2005 10:32:24 MDT Print View

Here's another thought on this stove. The 3.8 oz does not include the pot. The pot would add about another 0.9 oz. This is the reverse of most setups where the pot weighs around 4 oz and the windscreen/stand weighs 1-2 oz. I think I would prefer to have a pot that is more durable as opposed to a windscreen that is more durable.

Still... the design is ingenious and I LOVE the way all the components fit together to form one unit!!! (like a JetBoil). And even with the beer can pot it would still be maybe 2 oz lighter than my current alcohol stove with MSR Titan 0.85L pot/stand/etc. But the Titan pot is a nice shape that doubles well as a bowl... for your morning cereal or the odd 'cooked in the pot' meal like Quinoa or Cous Cous. The beer can would not make a good vessel for eating out of... too tall and narrow. It's basically just for boiling water I'd say.

Edited by davidlewis on 08/14/2005 10:33:31 MDT.

Ben Lyon
(Dynamo) - F
Re: UltraLight Outfitters Beer Can Cook pot Stove. on 08/14/2005 10:43:58 MDT Print View

Bill, I haven't looked at Wal Mart, but Alabama, for some reason, doesn't allow the sale of beer in any greater then the 16 Oz. "tall boy" size. Why? I do not know.

I am going to Georgia this week on business, and will be sure to get my next cooking system before heading back. Looking forward to trying this out.

Jim Colten
(jcolten) - M

Locale: MN
Re: UltraLight Outfitters Beer Can Cook pot Stove small air gap? on 08/14/2005 12:20:28 MDT Print View

I had the same initial reaction as David Lewis ... in that photo the windscreen is *WAY* too tight to allow adequate airflow for combustion.

But when I watched the quicktime demo video and learned that the photo was of the windscreen in "double wall insulated mug" mode.

The video shows that in cooking mode, the windscreen is placed outside the wire pot holder, allowing it to spring open to allow for plenty airflow.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/14/2005 14:01:59 MDT Print View

I copied this from the Ultralight Outfitters web site. I hope this answers some questions and is how it turns out.

=================O=============
(start") Ultralight Beercan Cook Pot & Stove

.75 Liter (25 FL. OZ.) Ultralight Cook Pot
Solid Fuel Ultralight Camp Stove
Becomes an Insulated Drinking Mug

Total weight: 3.8 oz.

The lightest weight solution for backpack cooking that really works: Simple, Sturdy, Safe, and Packs up easily.

This complete kit weighs less 4 oz. It is your stove, cook pot, windscreen, and insulated drinking mug all in one. Compare this to:

6 oz. 1.3 Liter Titanium Pot.
+3 oz. Propane stove without the heavy metal fuel cartridge.
+3 oz. Lexan cup with less than half the volume and isn't insulated.
The Cook Pot

The cook pot is made from an empty jumbo (24.5 fl. oz.) can of beer. This empty can is perfect for a backpacking cook pot!

It is large enough to make a meal for one person.
It is easy to hold so it can double as a drinking mug.

It has a non-stick coating on the inside.
It is a 100% recycled product.
It is readily available and inexpensive to buy and replace.
It weighs one ounce, which is incredibly light!
There are three things you have to be careful about in order to use a beer can as a cook pot.

You need to use a special can opener to take the top off of a beer can and not leave any sharp edges. We'll show you how to do this.
An empty beer can is somewhat fragile and will dent easily. This is why the windscreen and stove in the cook set are designed to wrap around it when it is packed up. The packed up stove is sturdy enough to travel in a backpack without a problem. And, most dents can be pressed back out without damaging the pot.
The non-stick coating inside the can will burn at high temperatures. The solution is to always have water in the pot when it is over a flame. Boiling water in the pot will not let the inside of the pot get any hotter than 212 degrees F, which doesn't damage the coating. So no frying. No putting an empty pot on the fire. No letting the rice boil dry. Using this cook pot means restricting your backpacking meals to ones that are prepared with boiling water. In practice this is what most ultralight backpackers do anyway. Our FOOD&COOKING section has recipes and tips for meals that work great for cooking in a beercan cook pot.
The Stove

The stove is a stand and fuel tray for burning solid fuel pellets. Solid fuel is the lightest weight fuel for backpacking. Solid fuel is also the safest and most reliable fuel for camping. It can't leak. You can't spill it. The stove has no jets or valves that can get damaged or plugged.

The Windscreen

The windscreen is made from stainless steel, and is pre-formed into a cylindrical shape that stands around the cook pot and stove while cooking. When the stove and windscreen are packed up for travel, the windscreen wraps around the cook pot and protects it from being dented. You never have to fold or unfold the windscreen.

The Insulated Drinking Mug

When the stove and windscreen are packed up, they create a double walled shell around the cook pot. This turns the cook pot into an insulated drinking mug that is just right for holding and warming your hand while enjoying a hot cup of coffee or hot chocolate. A lip guard made of silicon rubber fits around the top of the can, and makes sipping hot liquids comfortable. (end ")

================O=============

The way I read this is that the 3.8oz includes the complete system minus some kind of lid:
1 - Fosters Cook Pot at 1oz - mine weighed .9oz.
1 - Wire stove/stand thing and I will guess it is made out of stainless steel wire - no weight given.
1 - One windscreen made out of stainless steel - no weight given.
1 - Lip guard made of silicon rubber that fits around the top of the can - no weight given.
Total weight (given) at 3.8oz for all of the above.

Now I can go back to my first question to Ryan. However I can't find the Titanium Foil listed on his site anymore.

How important is it to keep stainless steel as the material for the windscreen? I think the Titanium I use would be about as heavy as the stainless steel as my Ti .016" thick.

I don't think I would eat out of the Fosters cook pot since I use and like the Orikaso Flat Fold cup and bowl. They work great for me and are very easy to clean and store.

I will also try this stove with my Sterno Cook Pot as the Sterno can is almost the same size as the Fosters can. The Sterno can is .37 or .38oz. I would make a new smaller windscreen for it out of Aluminum something for more weight savings.

So now I just playing the waiting game and hope my number comes up quick.

Edited by bfornshell on 08/14/2005 14:04:27 MDT.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Weight on 08/14/2005 14:30:26 MDT Print View

Ok... so it *IS* 3.8 oz for everything. That's great. I was getting my info from the product page on this site which says:

System Package Includes:

Stainless steel pot stand
No-fold stainless steel wind screen
Silicon rubber lip-guard
Free Lexan spoon
Total weight of these components: 3.8 oz.

So this contradicts what the manufacture's site says. I will go with what the manufacture says :)

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Beer Can Stove vs. Alcohol Stove on 08/14/2005 15:12:14 MDT Print View

Ok... so being a good gram wennie... I just went into Excel and did some quick calculations to compare this solution to my current solution... taking enough fuel into account for a typical long weekend hike. Here's the breakdown assuming 5 boils (3/4 oz of alcohol to boil 2 cups). 5 boils allows for 2 hot meals plus 2 to 3 extra boils in case of screwups and/or making tea. I include a bowl with the Esbit solution since I don't think it would work well as a bowl. With my current setup, my Titan pot doubles as bowl/cup.

MSR Titan .85L pot - 4.4oz
Mogo Gear Firefly stove & dousing cup - 0.2oz
Homemade windscreen/stand - 0.8oz
Coghlans 4 oz. squirt bottle (for fuel) - 0.6oz
Mini Bic Lighter - 0.4oz
4oz of fuel - 4oz
Total: 10.4oz

-- vs --

Beer Can Stove - 3.8oz
Mini Bic Lighter - 0.4oz
Plastic Bowl from Microwave Meal - 0.5oz
5 Esbit Tabs - 2.5oz
Total: 7.1oz

Wooo Hooo!!! 3.3 oz savings!!! LOL... I need help :) Speaking of which... add a gram to the Beer Can solution for a foil lid :P

Edited by davidlewis on 08/14/2005 15:17:11 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/14/2005 16:16:55 MDT Print View

David: I would think of your weight savings as a percentage. You have come up with a way to save around 33% over the Alcohol option. That is a very high percentage, My SUL philosophy is "by what percent can I reduce the weight of a given item" and if I can do this with everything I carry, my total pack weight should be very light.

So, back to the Fosters Cook pot and this new stove. I really think a windscreen of Alumium Foil would work fine if you don't expect to drink from the cook pot. I would guess using Al Foil would reduce the weight 50% of that 3.8oz amount. The SS windscreen would help protect the Beer Can when packed but I might be able to roll my Orikaso Flat Fold things around the can and protect it with them or maybe find a large Styrofoam drink cup from a place like Dairy Queen. Also if you are not drinking out of the cook pot do you/I need the "Lip Guard"?

I am working on a set of shoulder straps for my new external frame but my brain keeps telling me to make a wire stove. I think the pack straps are about to lose the battle for my time.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/14/2005 16:26:41 MDT Print View

I agree actually Bill. To save 33% on something that is so light to start with is actually very good! Still... it's funny how we obsess about meer ounces. Then again, without that point of view... that idea of thinking about everything... every ounce... we'd all be carrying 50 pound packs. I think most people who go heavy do so to a large degree because going lighter just requires a whole lot more thought. It's easier to just throw everything in there and not worry about it.

Anyway... it's a neat little stove :) Hope I'm on 'the list'.

Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
Orisako on 08/14/2005 16:36:13 MDT Print View

Hmm... actually, what I posted has been said, but bill made an interesting comment with the orisako that I just noticed. you actuall, should be able to use the orisako as a replacement "insulator" even if you're wanting to drink how cocoa out of it as, if the bowl will handle hot soup it will hand the heat of the water. Water that has gotten done boiling remains at 212 degrees, the pot would never be more than that.

Edited by jdmitch on 08/14/2005 16:57:45 MDT.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: One thing on the windscreen on 08/14/2005 16:58:01 MDT Print View

Good point Joshua. That's probably another reason they went with stainless... not only is it strong... to protect the fragile can... but it also doesn't hold heat the way aluminum would. Titanium may have been a good option... but perhaps cost prohibitive... at least compared to similar homemade products.

Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
The one thing I do like about the screen on 08/14/2005 18:54:16 MDT Print View

I noticed that someone posted as I was mentioning that using a foil screen removes the usefulness of "insulated mog" design.

Just re-mentioning that as otherwise the post seems out of place.

One thing I I realy like about the screen is that, as pre-rolled SS, it will be relatively stable in the wind.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/16/2005 16:11:20 MDT Print View

I must have had a good number. I just got an email saying my Ultralight Outfitters Stove had shipped. I should have it in a few days. I hope everyone posting here was as lucky.

I will post the weight of each piece when it gets here and also run a few test boils. I will see if it will work with my Sterno Can Cook Pot and if yes run a few test boils with it.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/16/2005 16:23:54 MDT Print View

According to the product page actually... ALL backorders will be filled. Although my order is still showing a "hold" status :( Maybe it's the 10 mL dropper bottles in the order that are holding things up. The product page says they are in the warehouse though. Anyway :)

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/16/2005 16:40:32 MDT Print View

Bill, the "Fates" have smiled upon us both. After reading your post, I checked my email. I had a shipped notice also.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Re: UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/16/2005 19:53:36 MDT Print View

Grrr! What's up with my order :( Oh well... I sent them an inquiry. Must be some other item in my order that's holding things up.

Richard Nelridge
(naturephoto1) - M

Locale: Eastern Pennsylvania
Re: UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/16/2005 20:06:24 MDT Print View

David,

I don't know. BPL has always sent partial shipments to me if part of an order were out of stock.

Rich

Daniel Goldenberg
(dag4643) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwet
Re: Re: UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/16/2005 20:19:17 MDT Print View

I placed my order last Thursday or Friday and I was happy to get the shipping email today. I ordered it with a few other items that where in stock and had a partial shipment.

I went down to Safeway and found the recommended (good cook) can opener so I bought it along with a can of Fosters. That can opener is really slick, it works great and should come in handy for other projects. I tested out the Foster's can (0.9 oz) with an ESBIT tab and a little hardware cloth stand and boiled 16oz in about 6 minutes with enough ESBIT left over to continue simmering for probably another 3 minutes or so.

One thing I discovered using the Fosters can is that some kind of pot holder will be necessary. I'm not sure how the Ultralight Outfitters setup will work, as the windscreen will of course get hot so initially you can't just grab it. I think once the tab burns out the stainless windscreen will cool off fast but with ESBIT tabs I like to blow them out and use what's left later.

Bill, I'm wondering if you have given this any thought, I'm sure you will come up with a brilliant and light solution. Maybe a cuben fiber/polarguard delta oven mitt :)

I'm thinking of attaching a thin wire bale to my Fosters pot or making some kind of lightweight gripper. That Zen Stoves site has some good ideas. I'd hate to use a 1 oz pot holder on a 0.9 oz pot :(

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/16/2005 20:50:53 MDT Print View

1st - The way I understood the availability of this stove from the first announcement was that Ryan had a few and they would go to the first so many that ordered them. Say 25, if you were part of that first 25 those are now on the way to you and you got an email notice today.

Second - Ryan was able to get more at the show and those would go to the next "so many" on the list until they are gone. The second group would be shipped starting next Monday or what ever the day was I don't remember.

So, I and Paul and some other I guess were faster ordering and will get a stove from the first group of stoves to be shipped.

If you did not get an email today then you have to wait till ?? day the stoves from the show ship.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/16/2005 22:44:12 MDT Print View

Daniel asked:
===============================
"Bill, I'm wondering if you have given this any thought, I'm sure you will come up with a brilliant and light solution. Maybe a cuben fiber/polarguard delta oven mitt

I'm thinking of attaching a thin wire bale to my Fosters pot or making some kind of lightweight gripper. That Zen Stoves site has some good ideas. I'd hate to use a 1 oz pot holder on a 0.9 oz pot."
===============================

I almost always have a pair of gloves, lighter when it is warm or heavy when the weather is colder that might be used.

But, on the question of a Pot Gripper, I have one from Trangia that weighs 0.71oz. I measured a piece of scrap Titanium big enough to make one like it and it should weigh 0.32oz or less if it works. I will try and make a Titanium Pot Gripper while I wait for the stove.

Image hosted by Photobucket.com

Daniel Goldenberg
(dag4643) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwet
Re: UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/17/2005 07:42:39 MDT Print View

Bill,
I've got that trangia pot holder, I didn't think to try it out on the Foster's can.

I checked out the Ultralight Outfitters website in a little more detail and it appears like maybe a pot holder might not be necessary, they say you can grab the pot by the silicone rubber lip guard.

Another thing I learned is that the ESBIT tab holder on this stove slides up and kind of stows on the bottom of the Fosters can, which they say will snuff out a burning ESBIT tab which seems clever to me.

Playing around I made a small kettle out of my Fosters can. Punched two small holes at the top just below the rim and made a wire bale from a stainless 15/16 gage bicycle spoke and a cover with a pour spout opening out of a piece of aluminum baking sheet which holds the bail upright. Total weight was 1.1 oz.

Hajime Kawasaki
(Hajime) - MLife

Locale: Sakuragicho
750ml Beer Can is not available in Japan on 08/17/2005 08:17:17 MDT Print View

Hi Ryan
I like the concept of this simple stove system like Jetboil.
I ordered several Beer can stove systems through this site. for me and my friends.
However,,, I can not find 750ml Beer can in Japan !
Would you sell 750ml Beer cans ?

And why will not anyone make kinda universal heat sink atachment like Frux ring as used in Jetboil ?
Maybe it will be effective for low output stove system like this.

Glenn Roberts
(garkjr) - F

Locale: Southwestern Ohio
Different pot? on 08/17/2005 08:46:48 MDT Print View

OK, I'll admit to being old-fashioned and un-hip (and my wife and kids will enthusiastically agree!) What I'm wondering is, will a titanium pot such as the one from the Snow Peak Solo kit work with this stove? My own preference is a for-real pot rather than a recycled can; it's strictly that, a preference, totally unsupported by objective reasoning. (That preference mostly centers on "fiddling." It seems like getting a beer can, buying a can opener, trimming the top, and procuring a pot lifter is a lot more fiddly than using a Snow Peak pot with built-in handles. Of course, emptying the beer can could be enjoyable...)

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Different pot? on 08/17/2005 09:04:31 MDT Print View

I suppose that could work if you can find a pot/mag that is exactly the same diameter as a large fosters can.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Fosters Beer Can Subsitute on 08/17/2005 12:45:37 MDT Print View

Hajime Kawasaki Asked:
===============================
"Hi Ryan
1- I like the concept of this simple stove system like Jetboil.
I ordered several Beer can stove systems through this site. for me and my friends.
However,,, I can not find 750ml Beer can in Japan !
Would you sell 750ml Beer cans ?

2 - And why will not anyone make kinda universal heat sink atachment like Frux ring as used in Jetboil ?
Maybe it will be effective for low output stove system like this."
==============================
Konnichi wa Hajime-san. Watakushi wa Biru desu. Doozo yoroshiku.

1- Your first question about a 750ml Beer Can. Since this is an Australian Beer have you thought about contacting the Australian Embassy and asking them if they know of a place in Japan where you could buy Fosters Beer in the 25oz size. If NO, next ask if any of their staff ever gets it sent to them or ever bring it back from Australia. I would explain why you are asking and that you are looking for a few empty cans for a backpacking cook pot. Maybe show them a picture or send them the web site showing how the empty can is being used. They might be able to help you.

I also found that the Snow Peak Titanium French Press is very close to the width of the Fosters Beer Can.

Image hosted by Photobucket.com

The Snow Peak item is 3.25" wide and the Beer Can is about the same size. The Snow Peak French Press costs a lot compared to a beer can but it also can make coffee. Snow Peak also has many small cups and mugs but I can't find a size for them.

2- When the JetBoil was first shown last year I called them and asked if they would privide or sell just the Flex Ring part to someone for research. I explained I would like to see if it could be adapted to other stoves types. They said NO. So without having seen one yet I made my own version of a Flex Ring. I really made two. The first one had Aluminum Fins with a Stainless Steel top part.

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The second one had thin Brass Fins and a Titanium Top part. The Brass/Ti one was much lighter.

Image hosted by Photobucket.com
Image hosted by Photobucket.com

I wanted to see if the my Flex Ring version would work with my Brasslite alcohol stove. It didn't.

(Added) I should have said I wanted to see if the Flex Ring would make my Brasslite Stove boil water faster - it didn't.

The alcohol stove didn't generate enough flame velocity to drawl the flame up and through all the fins. It did work a little but did not boil water any faster than without the Flex Ring thing. I though about adding a small computer fan to help blow the flame but the added weight didn't seem to be worth it.

I had to decide at what point the stove got to heavy for me to carry vs other light stoves that will boil water as fast or about as fast. When I care less about weight I carry a light canister stove.

Edited by bfornshell on 08/18/2005 08:55:45 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/17/2005 15:56:38 MDT Print View

Daniel Goldenburg Said:
===============================
"Playing around I made a small kettle out of my Fosters can. Punched two small holes at the top just below the rim and made a wire bale from a stainless 15/16 gage bicycle spoke and a cover with a pour spout opening out of a piece of aluminum baking sheet which holds the bail upright. Total weight was 1.1 oz."
===============================

Good idea Daniel. My version of the same;
Fosters Can weight 0.91oz
Wire Handle weight 0.11oz
Al-Foil Lid weight 0.05oz
-------------------------------------------
Total Weight 1.07oz

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Edited by bfornshell on 08/17/2005 15:58:47 MDT.

Daniel Goldenberg
(dag4643) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwet
Re: UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/17/2005 17:37:54 MDT Print View

The kettle looks pretty slick, and 0.03oz lighter than mine.

How do you get the bale to stay up? Is it just a friction fit?

Thanks!
Dan

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/17/2005 18:29:21 MDT Print View

Hi Daniel, The hole for the bale is" just" large enough and the wire is spring-ee. I think that helps. The bale will stay where ever I put it at least for now it does. My first bale was made out of some 3/32" Al rod and weighed 0.23oz. That put the total weight at 1.17oz. Then I thought about this wire. It is some Kanthal wire that I have from making a pottery kiln. Wire like this is used in Electric Pottery Kilns. It is very strong, light and will take tempatures up to 2500 degress F. It was about half the weight of the Aluminum bale.

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/17/2005 22:01:31 MDT Print View

Bill,

Looking good - as always. I've got to get a Foster's can myself before the "Beer Can" Stove arrives from BPL. I don't drink Alc. so I don't even know if I have to purchase a six-pack? Have you used Esbit fuel before? I've been getting away from it (moving to Alc), due to the odor in my pack and to a much lesser degree, the blackening of the pots. I guess Hexamine is bit better than Trioxane. This stove will prob. get me back to it, or give me some ideas for trying to make an Alc stove of similar design.

Hope you didn't mind my comment (a compliment really) in that other thread? You know,...the one about Tyvek and Duct Tape. I do think that you prob. could make all of the non-rigid items in your kit just from Tyvek and Duct Tape - whould be interesting at least.

BTW, when you get near CT on your AT Thru-Hike, we could rendezvous and I'll be happy to accompany you into MA and up to Mt. GreyLock in the Berkshire Mtns. That is if you want the company. If not, no worries.

Take care,
pj

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/18/2005 00:02:33 MDT Print View

Hi Paul, Wal Mart sells the 25oz Fosters Beer one can at a time so you should be able to just buy one.
I think I paid about $1.50 per can and dumped the beer down the drain.

I have used the Esbit and they do have a little oder. If you look at the picture of my 2 pound cook kit and see the orange coated Trangia pots these are the ones I use for about everything to include a light weight wood burning stove I made. When I expect to burn wood or Esbit I carry a tiny bottle of "Soft Scrub" to clean the burn stuff off the pot. Between Bronner's and the Soft Scrub I keep my pot bottom cleaned daily. I will have to clean the Fosters Cook Pot a few times and see if I can clean it without mashing the can.
I also keep my Esbit tablets in a small bag attached to the outside of my pack or in one of the mesh pockets. I used to be able to get the military heat tabs but not anymore.

Your comment about the Tyvek and Duct Tape Thread. About a year ago I sewed a stuff sack out of a recycled Post Office envelope. It was OK but that kind of Tyvek weighs something around 1.72oz per sq yard. I had thought about using it for a pack and maybe a few other things but decided it was to heavy. Duct Tape is also heavy at a little over 9oz a sq yard. After the thread got started I was at my local Post Office and while there I talked to them about the Tyvek stuff. I told them about the talk on the thread and about if someone took a bunch of envelopes to make backpacking gear with. The Post Office guy laughed but said the envelopes are for mail. He said that unless someone took a really large amount at one time they might get by with it. He did say that when postage goes up next time we can blame the person who took the envelopes. I have seen Duct Taped used to make a Ball Cap but guess it is also heavy.

I would be happy to meet you and hike with you for awhile when I get up the AT that far North. Maybe we could try SuperDuper Ultra Light a few days and see how it goes. By then my gear set might all fit in a Wal Mart plastic bag and the standard size bag weighs 0.29oz each. I think they have a larger bag and next time I go I will see if I can get one and weigh it. I might have to double bag it.

I am starting to get silly it must be bed time.

Arapiles .
(Arapiles) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Re: Fosters Beer Can Subsitute on 08/18/2005 06:53:44 MDT Print View

I'm Australian and as far as I know Fosters, which no-one in Australia drinks these days, isn't available in Australia in the big beer cans. The only place I've seen the big cans is in the Northern Territory and that was the local beer brand. The Embassy staff in Tokyo won't help you with the things they're supposed to do, so the odds of them locating empty beer-cans for Hajime-san are poor.

Hajime-san: go to your nearest Asahi beer-vending machine and you will find big cans.

Bill - you are a beer?? :) Tabun, "boku wa biru daisuki-desu."

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Fosters Beer Can Subsitute on 08/18/2005 07:33:52 MDT Print View

iie Fornshell-san, anata wa biru ja arimasen.

Anata wa "Fabricator" O-sensei desu.

Fornshell-san, wakarimasu ka?


Sumimasen. Watashi wa Nihon-go iimasen. Watashi wa Nihon-jin dewa arimasen.

Edited by pj on 08/18/2005 10:42:40 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/18/2005 08:37:25 MDT Print View

Hi Damian, The Beer vending machines were one of the more interesting things I remember from a couple trips to Japan. I don't drink so I don't remember the size of the cans. I do remember the small soda (Coke) cans and Milk Tea. I got hooked on the Milk Tea.

Fosters Beer must be to Australian's like Lone Star Beer was at one time to Texan's. It was exported to Louisiana where it sold really cheap.

Sounds like we need to start a "Friendship Beer Can Exchange" program.

Bill - Biru
Beer - Bi-ru

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/18/2005 10:01:29 MDT Print View

"Sounds like we need to start a "Friendship Beer Can Exchange" program."

I'd volunteer to help out. I don't know if you can ship them with the beer in them tho'... which kinda makes it a win win... you get a can... I get a free beer :) I have paypal. I think those cans cost about $2. Canadian per can... not sure... that's just a wild guess. Maybe someone who can't get the can could get me a can opener!!! The Good Cook line is not available in Canada. I can get the Rosle openner, but it's $60!!!

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight OutfittersStove - I Got Mine on 08/19/2005 15:41:10 MDT Print View

I got my Stove this afternoon. Weights and pictures follow:

1 - Wire Stove Part - 34.7gr/1.22oz
2 - SS Windscreen - 39.4gr/1.39oz
3 - Lip Guard - 8gr/0.28oz
----------------------------------
Weight sold 82.1gr/2.89oz

Add the empty Fosters Can Cook Pot - 0.91oz.

Total Stove 3.8 as advertised.

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Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters Stove-Lighter Yet on 08/19/2005 17:15:54 MDT Print View

I just made an Alumiun Foil (double thick) windscreen the same size as the Stainless Steel (SS) one. The Al Foil windscreen weighs 0.22oz and is 1.17oz less than the SS windscreen.

The complete stove goes from 3.8oz to 2.63oz with the Al Foil windscreen.

I also tried my Sterno Can Cook Pot and it will work on this stove. The Sterno Cook Pot will only hold 8oz and weighs .38oz.

According to the ZEN stove web site Heineken's has two different 24oz cans. I will see if I can find them and measure them to see if they will fit the stove.

Edited by bfornshell on 08/19/2005 17:17:05 MDT.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: UltraLight Outfitters Stove-Lighter Yet on 08/19/2005 19:04:36 MDT Print View

I just came form the liquor store and was looking at the 710 mL Heineken can. Looks like a keg. I compared it to the big Fosters can and the Fosters can is a slightly smaller diameter. Also, the diameter of the Heineken can varies... it bumps out at point... so I don't know if it would work.

I also went can opener shopping. No one in Canada carries good cook can openers and to order one from the states would cost me $50... $10 for the can opener... $40 for shipping :/ (canadian dollars). Crazy. There is a specialty cooking store in town that can order the Rosle opener, which also works, but it's also $50... just for the can opener. So I bought another brand of side cut opener just to try it... sure enough... doesn't work. The problem is that the big wheel thing bumps into where the can flares out... so the opener can't keep a grip on the thing while turning... one turn and it pops off. So I guess I'm in $50 for a can opener to open a $3 can of beer for a $10 stove. You know you're a gram wennie when you pay $50 for a can opener :P Oh well, it'll be a nice addition to my kitchen I guess.

Richard Nelridge
(naturephoto1) - M

Locale: Eastern Pennsylvania
Re: UltraLight Outfitters Stove-Lighter Yet on 08/19/2005 19:31:16 MDT Print View

David,

Wouldn't it be easier and less expensive if one of us down in the US would send a can to you already prepared? Maybe this could be arranged by someone like perhaps Bill or Paul?

Just a suggestion, but I think that someone in the US would be willing.

Rich

Daniel Goldenberg
(dag4643) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwet
Re: Re: UltraLight Outfitters Stove-Lighter Yet on 08/19/2005 20:41:54 MDT Print View

I received mine today and tested it out. It works great and is quite clever. 3.8 oz on the money. I really like how it packs up "clean" without any of the sooty areas exposed.

Speaking of Fosters beer cans, check out the gossamer gear website and click on the link below the picture on the right. It's about a sub 5 lb extreme ultralight trip. On page 2 there is an ESBIT setup that uses a cut down fosters can for a pot and another fosters can for a windscreen/tab holder. It uses two titanium stakes to hold the pot. Weight is 0.4 oz for the stove/windscreen and 0.7oz for the pot, for a 1.1 total system weight with a foil lid it would end up around 1.2 oz.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/19/2005 22:30:27 MDT Print View

I want to address Daniels post first. I looked at the Gossamer Gear web site and read Glens account of what he calls his XUL trip report. I also downloaded both his and Mike's ?? gear list.

Glen also seems to have a new item on his web site, Sport EYZ ultralight sunglasses at 0.6oz counting a case. They are $9.95 and start shipping 22 Aug.

On to the Fosters Beer can stove/cook pot combo. He has a 25oz Fosters Beer can with the top part cut off to make the stove part and the rest of the can is used as the cook pot. I have several concerns about this set-up.

1- I think the bottom of the cook pot is to close to the Esbit tablet.
2- By cutting off the top of the Fosters beer can to make the stove part you lose the strength of the rim that is around the top of the can.
3- This is not a big deal but you also reduce the amount of water you can heat by cutting the top part off. My guess is the cook pot now holds 16 to 18oz of water.
4- Glenn lists the parts as:
- the beer can combo stand/windscreen at 0.4oz
- 2 Ti stakes 0.46oz ( listed with other tent stakes)
- Cut-off Beer Can cook pot at 0.7oz
Total 1.57oz
5- I would not call the base of the stove a combo stove/windscreen. It will not work. You can see he has put a piece of sleeping pad around the stove to block the wind.

The following is a quote from what Glen calls his XUL trip report - Sub 4 lb 3 days/2 nights on trail, PCT in southern Calif., 6,000 - 8,000 ft elevation, spring 2005.

"Early dinner at Little Bear Springs Trail Camp. Close up of Glen's stove. The windscreen/esbit holder and pot stand weighs 0.4 oz., made out of a large beer can. Two titanium stakes fit in slots to form a 'grill' to hold up the pot, a trimmed Fosters beer can weighing 0.7 oz. There was a little breeze out, so Glen had his trimmed down pad of Thinlight (3/8") as a shield. After dinner we hiked on, again enjoying the cool of the evening."

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Daniel Goldenberg
(dag4643) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwet
Re: UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/19/2005 23:00:26 MDT Print View

Bill,
I agree with lots of your comments.
1. Pot height to stove: It's kind of hard to estimate how high the pot is from the tablet but I would guess it is about 1 inch or so (from the bottom where the tablet sits to the pot bottom). I've played a bit with home made ESBIT stoves and in determining how high the pot should sit I've tried to use the same distance that the commercial ESBIT stove uses. The little square clamshell esbit stove puts the pot 1.5 inches up from the base where the tab sits. However I also have the wing stove and on that stove the bottom of the pot sits about 1 inch from the base, and even less than that, about 3/4 inches if you use a small pot like a SP600 which sits on the inner (lower) pot support. As far as I can tell even at that height the stove works good, and I can't really tell much of a difference in performance when you vary the height from about 1 inch up to 2 inches. I think I measured the Ultralight outfitter stove as using a distance of 2 inches, but of course you can vary the distance. The thru-hiker website confirms my findings:
http://www.thru-hiker.com/articles.asp?subcat=2&cid=58

They don't show much of a difference in boil time till you get up at 2.75 inches.

Based on this I think the pot height might be OK, but it is hard to tell from a photo.
2. I agree that the pot is weakened significantly. The pot is probably being treated as a weekend disposable.Probably a better choice if durability is a factor would be a Heineken pot that has ridges along the middle.
5. I totally agree the "windscreen" will not work. It's kind of analogous to the ESBIT stove, I find that stove to work horribly even in calm conditions without a windscreen. I'm curious how well the foam pad windscreen works.

Another thing that is curious is the omission of a pot cover (gear list states "none"). Could be that for the amount of water boiled the loss in efficiency is not a factor.

Cheers

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Fosters Beer Cans?? on 08/19/2005 23:05:29 MDT Print View

How do you get a beer can ready to use. This is a good question. My Good Cook Safe Cut can opener cost $9.95 US$. A 25oz can of Fosters Beer at Wal Mart was between $1.50 and $1.75 I don't remember for sure. The empty can and box ready to mail would probability weigh about 5 to 7oz. I will pack one and take it to the post office in the morning and check the weight and see how much it would cost to send to/within the US, Canada and to Japan.

For David in Canada it might be cheaper to just send you a Good Cook can opener.

Perhaps the Good Cook Safe Cut can opener should be a new item in the baclpackinglight.com store.

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Re: UltraLight Outfitters Stove-Lighter Yet on 08/20/2005 00:34:21 MDT Print View

Richard,

I'm emailing David directly. At least you were thinking. I apparently was not.

Thanks for the suggestion. It's appreciated.
pj


Bill,

I understand now how the "Biru" nickname came about after reading a follow-on post of yours. Tactful explanation, unless i'm mistaken.

Edited by pj on 08/20/2005 01:23:45 MDT.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Beer Cans in Japan on 08/20/2005 03:23:58 MDT Print View

I've been interested in the Ultralight Outfitters Beer Can Stove, but haven't been able to find Foster's been can sizes here in Japan. The nearest I've found so far are the 1000 ml and 500ml cans (both available in vending machines, in addition to the 3 liter, small keg-like cans). I've been unable to find any good can openers either (I've asked my brother in Boston to find me a Good Cook can opener though). Like Dave's dilemma, ordering anything from overseas would be astronomically expensive to and from Japan. So unless I can find a proper .75 liter can I'll have to resort to making my own beercan stove, probably using a 1 liter can... Would anyone know how to make a silicon lip guard ring?

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Beer Cans in Japan on 08/20/2005 07:52:25 MDT Print View

Miguel... what about a big can of Sapporo? It's got a funky shape (very sexy looking actually... you'd be the envy of all those other UL backpackers with their ugly Fosters cans)... but it's about the right volume (650 mL/22 oz.). It's not as big around as a Fosters... so it would be hard to eat out of or cook in... only good for boiling water... but it might work! And also... the can does not flare out below the lid... like almost every other can... so you don't need a Good Cooks opener!!!! ANY side cut can opener would do the trick! It must be a side cut opener though.

Here's a pic:
http://www.sixthseal.com/images/sapporo.jpg


I just had another thought. If all you are ever doing is boiling water... why even remove the top?!?! That way you get a built-in lid :) Measuring the water might be a bit more of an issue... and pouring it in thru the small drinking hold could be a pain... but it's just a thought. Probably a dumb one... lol. Would be hard to stuff your tea bag in there... and get it out... for instance. Unless you used loose tea. Anyway... blah blah blah. DUmb idea :P

Edited by davidlewis on 08/20/2005 08:08:06 MDT.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Why you need a Good Cook opener on 08/20/2005 08:04:22 MDT Print View

If anyone is ineterested... the following marco shot of a Zwiesel side cut can opener on a Foster can shows why you need the Good Cook or Rosle opener.



As you can see, the big cutting wheel on the Zwiesel bumps into the flare at the top of the can... so you can't get a grip on it. I assume the Good Cook has a different style of cutting wheel... but most openers have a really big wheel like this one.

Arapiles .
(Arapiles) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Re: UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 08/20/2005 08:08:50 MDT Print View

Hi Bill

Oh, I see "Biru" = Bill, not beer. My apologies for the mistake - but forgivable, I hope, given the topic! I must admit when I first moved here the use of "biru" for both beer and building did cause me quite a bit of confusion.

Edited by Arapiles on 04/23/2007 15:51:04 MDT.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Good Cook opener on 08/20/2005 08:18:11 MDT Print View

Hey Bill and Paul. I can get the Fosters cans here... so an opener would be much more useful to me as the cans will surely need to be replaced from time to time. I called around this morning though to a few other places and one place had a side cut opener that sounds like it might work. The clerk explained it to me on the phone and she said that it looks "really weird" compared to a normal side cut openers and she said the two rotating parts are "really small"... it does not have a big cutting wheel like the others. I don't remember the brand name... but it was a really long and weird name that I didn't recognize. So I'm gonna to take a look at it and if that doesn't work... I may take you up on your kind offer :)

Edited by davidlewis on 08/20/2005 08:20:29 MDT.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Beer Cans in Japan on 08/20/2005 08:45:33 MDT Print View

Miguel... a rubber band would probably work just as well for the lip guard. With these side cut openers, there are no sharp edge at all. I don't have my Ultralight Outfitters stove yet... but my guess is that the lip guard is more to give your lower lip a cool surface to rest against while sipping rather than protect you from a sharp edge. Again, with a side cut opener, the edge is very blunt. So a wide elastic band would do the same thing I imagine.

Also... WRT to post about the Sapporo can... I just noticed that this can has a lid on both ends. That could be a bacteria trap if you ever have any food or drink in the can.I just mentioned this can as I assume you can get them in Japan.

Patti Binder
(quiltbinder) - MLife

Locale: Southwestern Indiana
Beer Can Stove on 08/20/2005 10:09:03 MDT Print View

Hi folks,
Just curious about how well these things work.
Have any of you done any testing on your new stove systems yet, or are you just sitting around admiring, weighing, and talking about them;?
I'm wondering if the sleeve/windscreen has an effect of concentrating the heat from the flame up the sides of the can, and thus heating the water faster and more efficiently. I haven't decided if I'll get the set yet. So, could someone do a controlled test both with and without the wind screen either in still air or with a wind screen further away to eliminate the heat-funnel effect of the screen being so close? In my experience with a tall titanium pot, it takes noticeably longer(than a flatter aluminum pot of the same capcity) to boil with wood or esbit or even when I tested it on my electric stove burner.
Also, just curiouser, does the pot snuff out the esbet tab and can you pick up the hot pot with the windscreen right away, or do you need a "pot holder"? Any other observations?
Many Thanks!

I'm thinking that a rubber band on the edge of a very hot can would probably either melt or dry up and disintigrate prematurely. They make silicon that is very heat resistant(muffin and cake pans are made from it.) The rubber band thing is a good idea though,if we could just find heat resistant silicon rubber bands.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Shipping a Fosters Can/Can Opener on 08/20/2005 11:50:54 MDT Print View

I just got back from the Post Office. I made a small box that would hold a Fosters Beer Can and/or the Good Cook Safe Cut can opener.

I checked postage to Japan for the Beer Can alone, for the Can Opener alone and for both at the same time.

I checked shipping to Canada only for Good CooK Can Operner since Fosters Beer is sold in Canada. The Surface Mail rate was a little more than the Regular Air Mail for some reason so I am only listing the Air Mail rate.

To cover Texas sales tax and to keep it simple the Fosters Beer can would be $2.00 and the can opener would be $11.00 plus the cost of shipping.

To Japan: Postage Only
1- Beer Can alone -
*Regular Air Mail - 7-10 days = $6.40
*Express Air - 3-5 days = $17.00
2- Can Opener alone -
*Regular Air Mail - 7-10 days = $8.40
*Express Air - 3-5 days =$21.00
3- Beer Can and Can Opener-
*Regular Air Mail - 7-10 days =$9.70
*Express Air - 3-5 days = $21.00

To Canada: Postage Only
1- Can Opener only -
*Regular Air Mail - 5-7 days = $3.10

I don't drink beer so the beer gets dumped. I checked with a few friends that drink beer and they don't drink Fosters Beer.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Beer Can Stove on 08/20/2005 12:17:01 MDT Print View

David, thanks for the info on the Sapporo bottle (and sorry to take so long to answer... the time lag puts me to sleeping when most of you are awake!), but I've never seen that particular Sapporo beer can here before (and Sapporo is my second favorite beer in Japan.. Ebisu being the first). It must be, as is written on the can, an import version. I visited a few grocery and liquor stores earlier this evening, but no 650 ml cans.

Also you idea for the lip guard being replaced by a rubber band is a good one, though I wonder about the taste of the thing. Have you ever put a rubber band in your mouth??? I did come up with the idea of using my recent BandAid Africa bracelet as a lip guard. Has no taste and looks nice in white.

Bill, thanks so much for taking the time to check out postage prices to Japan. I appreciate it. The prices are not as bad as I imagined, but still a bit steep for something like a beer can... I have to follow your example and try to use ingenuity to figure out the problem rather than spend more money than is strictly necessary. It's just a matter of time, I guess. Necessity is the mother of invention, no?

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Beer Can Stove on 08/20/2005 14:30:39 MDT Print View

Hey Patti. I don't have one yet... so I'm not able to offer any testing. As for the rubber band... good point... it was just an idea. Still... it would be so far from the bottom of the pot that I don't imagine it would get that hot. And you wouldn't have to use it while cooking. Nevertheless... Miguel could order the stove... it comes with the lip guard... he just can't get Foster's cans.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Beer Can Stove on 08/20/2005 14:33:59 MDT Print View

To be honest Miguel... I don't think the lip guard would be needed anyway. But I don't have a stove setup and haven't done any testing under any conditions yet... so who knows. But you probably right... the rubber band was not a great idea :)

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Beer Can Stove on 08/20/2005 15:18:10 MDT Print View

To be honest Miguel... I don't think the lip guard would be needed anyway. But I don't have a stove setup and haven't done any testing under any conditions yet... so who knows. But you probably right... the rubber band was not a great idea :)

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Cuisipro Can Opener on 08/20/2005 15:24:08 MDT Print View

For anyone who can't find the Good Cook can opener (I think you can only get it in the US) I found a can opener today that also works. I think it's the same design (in terms of how it works) as the Rosle opener. Like the Rosle, it's more expensive though. The opener is made by Cuisipro. I just made the Foster Cook Pot and it's awesome. Weighs nothing... and the opener keeps the metal ring at the top of the can... so it's nice and strong too. And I can get my hand inside for cleaning no problem.

http://www.cuisipro.com/site/pages/pc_e_can_open.asp

Edited by davidlewis on 08/20/2005 15:26:02 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Fosters Cook Pot - Lip Guard on 08/20/2005 15:52:02 MDT Print View

Hi David, While you found another can opener I may have found the Lip Guard.

There a ton of them listed on ebay.

rings on ebay


Image hosted by Photobucket.com
Image hosted by Photobucket.com

What do you think? I even think I saw them for sale at Wal Mart with names on them. I may have to take a walk and check it out.

Edited by bfornshell on 08/21/2005 20:53:01 MDT.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Fosters Cook Pot - Lip Guard on 08/20/2005 16:16:09 MDT Print View

Thanks Bill. I'm losing track of what all those different colors stand for... lol. Are those bracelets not rubber? In any case, I bought the Ultralight Outfitters stove... so I will be getting a silicone lip guard.

I also just used my can opener to make a Heinekin 710 mL pot. It's awesome. I like it much better than the Fosters pot. The raised areas and barrel shape make it much stronger... and it's only 2 grams heavier. It's also a little shorter... making it easier to eat out of... if you wanted to. I'm going to take some aluminum sheet and make a windscreen / stand for it tonight... once some of this beer wears off!!!! LOL.

One other little tip. Rather than open the can fully before taking the lid off... I just very lightly pryed the pop tab... just enough to relieve the pressure before cutting the top off. Then I twisted the pop tab off, cut off the lid and saved it to use as a pot lid. It's heavier than a peice of foil of course... but it's a perfect fit and might work a little better. 6 grams.

Edited by davidlewis on 08/20/2005 16:20:52 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Fosters Cook Pot - Lip Guard on 08/20/2005 18:02:19 MDT Print View

David and others: Google "Silicon Rubber Bands". You are in for a big surprise. I am about sure this is what Ultralight Outfitters is using. They come in every color of the rainbow and about any combination you can think of. You can also get about anyword or words you want stamped into the band.

I am on my way to Wal Mart to see if that is where I saw them for sale with peoples first names on them.

I also am going to see if they have the Heinekin 710ml cans and buy one if they do.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters/Heineken Can-Yes on 08/20/2005 20:41:31 MDT Print View

I got a 710ml/24oz Heineken Beer Can and it will work with the Ultralight Outfitters Stove. However. It is to wide in its middle to work with the windscreen acting as a doublewall drinking mug.

I agree with David and think the Heineken Beer Can is stronger than the Fosters Beer Can.

Here are a few pictures. I haven't removed the can top yet.

Image hosted by Photobucket.com
Image hosted by Photobucket.com
Image hosted by Photobucket.com

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: UltraLight Outfitters/Heineken Can-Yes on 08/20/2005 20:49:15 MDT Print View

Hey Bill. Thanks for the pics. I think the Heineken can is actually a LOT stronger. I think it could survive in the pack quite well without having to have a stainless steel wrapper. You could always stuff it with some clothing too to make it less prone to damage in the pack. My plan now is to make an aluminum windscreen/stand for the Heineken pot and to then get some neoprene and sew a small band to fit between the two big bumps in the can (i.e. covering the same area as the green printed label). This will act as a cozy so you can hold it when hot. The windscreen/stand will stow inside the pot.

Edited by davidlewis on 08/20/2005 20:51:09 MDT.

Hajime Kawasaki
(Hajime) - MLife

Locale: Sakuragicho
Zannen! on 08/21/2005 01:54:24 MDT Print View

Hi Bill
Thanks a lot for your information.
I am much amazed that you really experiment the Flux ring to alcohol stove. and respect your scientific mind.
It's a pity to hear that your Flux ring atachment did not work ! (in Japanese , we say "Zannen !").
But I believe the principle of the more surface, the more effective heat absorption.
Any alternative idea do'nt you have ?

I am searching for the web shops selling 750ml can ,but I could not find them yet.
In Japan,maybe we can not get 750ml can.
So I try the snow peak Java press can.

It looks that the coil on the press will absorb the heat of flare.....

Daniel Goldenberg
(dag4643) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwet
Ultralight Outfitters Beer can stove and alchohol on 08/21/2005 07:35:08 MDT Print View

Has anybody considered the possibility of this stove being used with a tiny alchohol stove sitting on the ESBIT tab holding tray?

I couldn't help thinking that as an alternative/backup to ESBIT tabs a tiny alchohol stove might work. The tray for the ESBIT tab could even work as a priming tray.

Just a thought.

Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
Heineken Can on 08/21/2005 08:29:06 MDT Print View

I'm a big fan of the heine can. very strong. btw, Bill, from the pictures, it looks like you lose the "autosnuff" ability of the stand when you use the heine. Is that the case?

http://www.ultralightoutfitters.com/index.php?h=packing&n=stove&s=set

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Ultralight Outfitters Beer can stove and alchohol on 08/21/2005 08:32:57 MDT Print View

Daniel... yes... I plan on trying it with a MoGo Firefly... it's a very tiny alc. stove that should work well with such a small pot. And the distance looks about right.

Dondo .
(Dondo) - F

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Ultralight Outfitters Beer can stove and alchohol on 08/21/2005 09:43:46 MDT Print View

Daniel, I tried it with Sgt. Rock's Ion Stove and it works well. The fuel efficiency of the Ion stove and the Esbit tabs are similar,about.5 oz. per boil. There would be a weight penalty for the stove(.3 oz.) and my fuel container,a Lil' Nipper bottle(.7 oz.)

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters Stove Stuff on 08/21/2005 15:25:20 MDT Print View

1- David's idea for a neoprene "Band/Cozy" to help hold the Cook Pot when it is hot is a good one. I made one for my Heineken Cook Pot. This is very easy and I just "hand" sewed it. The cozy weighs 0.35oz.

Image hosted by Photobucket.com
Image hosted by Photobucket.com

2- Hajime, Thanks for the nice comments. If you get a Snow Peak "Java" press let us know how it works.

3- Daniel, I put my Brasslite Turbo I stove on the stove pan but the stove is to tall. There is 2.25" of space between the pan bottom and the underside of the Fosters Can. I looked at both the SGT Rock Ion stove and the MoGo Firefly stove. I have never made a soda can stove and think I will try the Ray Garlington (YACC) stove and see how it works.


Link to YACC


Image hosted by Photobucket.com

4- Joshua, you are correct, you lose the "auto stuff" ability with the Heineken can

Edited by bfornshell on 08/21/2005 20:54:23 MDT.

Dondo .
(Dondo) - F

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Fosters Beer Can Lid on 08/21/2005 15:31:46 MDT Print View

To make a lid for your Fosters can, just open the can with your Good Cook Safe Cut opener without popping the pop top. Save the top of the can and carefully give the pop top a quarter turn. With needle nose pliers, gently bend half of the pop top until it's perpendicular to the lid. You now have a nice snug fitting lid complete with handle for 7 grams.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: UltraLight Outfitters Stove Stuff on 08/21/2005 16:09:08 MDT Print View

Hey Bill,

Have you tried boiling water with the cozy in place? I am working on a windscreen/stand for a Heineken pot with the goal of having a complete cookset that would be about 2 oz... but when I tried my first screen last night (with a mogo firefly)... the jets were really licking up the side of the small diameter pot. I'm making a new screen now that will place the stove closer to the bottom of the pot (.75" as opposed to 1.25"). I'm hoping that the closer distance will keep the jets under the pot more. I'm sure that a neoprene cozy would have melted with my previous windscreen. I guess the reason the cozy works with a JetBoil is that those fins suck up all the heat and flames before they can reach the cozy. If there were cans smaller than the V8 can... I'd try to make an even smaller stove than the firefly and see how that worked... but I think that's about as small as aluminum cans get.

Edited by davidlewis on 08/21/2005 16:10:53 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters Stove Stuff on 08/21/2005 17:15:37 MDT Print View

1- Donald, I did just as you said and saved the lid. However, when the can opener cut through the can in the first place the beer started to spray. I pulled the tab to release the pressure. My can lid weighed 6.5 gr and the AL-foil lid weighed 1.1gr. I went with the Al-foil lid.

2- David, I still haven't cut the lid off the Heineken can yet. My Al-foil windscreen weighs 0.22oz. This is 1.17oz lighter than the windscreen that comes with the stove.

I have thought about putting a couple small pieces of Velcro on the edges of the Band/Cozy. This way when the water is hot I can just wrap and stick the Velcro Cozy on the can and pick it up.

When I get the Heineken can cook pot finished I will take it outside with the cozy on it and boil some water. I will let you know if it burns the cozy.

I just finished my first soda can stove. I made the YACC stove. I tried it out but without trying to boil water. It works and next time I will try it on the Ultralight............ The stove was very easy to make. It is 1.5" tall.

How small a stove (can) do you want to try? I have a nested set of small cans that get really small. It will still need to hold enough alcohol to boil water.

Dondo .
(Dondo) - F

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: UltraLight Outfitters Stove Stuff on 08/21/2005 18:08:43 MDT Print View

Sorry about that, Bill. I got a bit of spray myself when I opened the can. Luckily, I was working outside. Just hate to waste perfectly good beer. After experimenting this afternoon with alcohol and Esbit, I've decided to go with Ebit, mostly for the reasons cited on the Ultralight Outfitters web site. I'm ready to start experimenting with a Heineken can but am wondering what you will be using to contain the soot if you use Esbit tabs.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters Stove Stuff on 08/21/2005 18:30:42 MDT Print View

Donald, If you look at the picture of my 2 pound cook kit you will see that I use the orange coated Trangia pots. These are used for about everything to include a light weight wood burning stove I made. When I expect to burn wood or Esbit I carry a tiny bottle of "Soft Scrub" to clean the burn stuff off the pot. Between Bronner's and a little Soft Scrub I keep my pot bottom cleaned daily. I will have to clean the Fosters and Heineken Cook Pots a few times and see if I can clean them without mashing the can.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Heineken Stove - 1.83 oz. on 08/21/2005 18:53:20 MDT Print View

Ok... I just finished making a Heineken stove. Here's the specs if you're interested:

Pot: 27 grams
Lid (top of can): 6 grams
Windscreen/Stand: 12 grams
Stove (MoGo FireFly): 6 grams

I did not include the weight of the tent stakes as they are dual purpose... I count that weight with my tarp. But the stakes add another 12-16 grams depending on the brand.

The lid is the cut off can top with a paper clip for a handle. The Windscreen/stand is made from a disposable cookie sheet and it's height is as high as possible while still being able to stow it inside the can. Possible additions include a bail, cozy and primer cup/esbit stand. The bail would be very helpful for lifting a can full of hot water off your stove!!! The cozy would be handy for drinking/handling. Of these options, I'd say that the cozy would add the most weight. The bail is a must have. I will add that tomorrow. When it comes to picking up scaling hot water, I think the bail would be worth every gram.



The extra few small holes you see BTW are mistakes :)

Edited by davidlewis on 08/21/2005 18:54:38 MDT.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Heineken Stove - 1.83 oz. on 08/21/2005 19:13:53 MDT Print View

First test didn't go so well... windscreen melted... LOL :) I aborted before getting a boil. I don't think the firefly is getting enough air... esp. on the front side which has no holes. That's the side that melted. Gonna try a new version with a bigger gap and a lower height. Also... maybe a few more holes closer to the front. Right now there are only holes on 50% of the screen. I may extend that to 65% or so.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Heineken Stove on 08/21/2005 19:44:57 MDT Print View

David, It looks good and is light. I am sure you will work out the amount of air holes necessary.

When I cut the lid off the Heineken can I will try and do it without pulling the tab.

I just noticed the Apple on your computer. I have 3 Mac's. One is old but still really good for anything not connected to the internet, one is newer, and I just got a new Lap Top.

Edited by bfornshell on 08/21/2005 19:49:10 MDT.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Heineken Stove on 08/21/2005 19:52:34 MDT Print View

Bill... I think part of the problem may just be the small diameter of a beer can setup. What you end up with is a windscreen that is VERY close to the flames. In fact, the flames were hitting the aluminum. And this is a tiny stove made from a "1 shot" V8 juice can. Perhaps this is another reason why the ultralight outfitters stove uses stainless steel? They've already figured all this out :) It's more fun to figure it out on your own tho'... lol.

With regards to removing the top... what I did was to pull the tab every so slightly... just enough to barely break the seal and let the pressure out while leaving the drinking port still secured. It's nicer than having beer fizz out all over your can opener and down the side of the can.

Edited by davidlewis on 08/21/2005 19:56:23 MDT.

Jim Colten
(jcolten) - M

Locale: MN
inserting an active hyperlink into a forum msg on 08/21/2005 20:22:11 MDT Print View

Bill,


How to create an active link here .... If you want


rings on ebay


to take you to


http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsassZbigcojones


then put this


<br><a href="http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsassZbigcojones">rings on ebay</a><br>


into your msg.

Edited by jcolten on 08/22/2005 02:45:50 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
inserting an active hyperlink....... on 08/21/2005 20:48:28 MDT Print View

Jim Colten, I really appreciate you showing me how to do this. I have been trying to figure this out for the longest time. I lucked onto adding pictures but I could never make the web link thing work. One thing I see is that you can not make any Typo's.

It seems to be working with the double

but I will change it to one
.

I was working on the message with the YACC Stove link on it and it is working.

Thank you very much.

Daniel Goldenberg
(dag4643) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwet
Re: Heineken Stove - 1.83 oz. on 08/21/2005 21:53:21 MDT Print View

David,
I like how that lid came out, especially with the paper clip for a handle. I may have to go and buy another Fosters or Heineken can to make a similar lid.

By the way, I'm not sure how hot the paperclip gets, but if you want to further refine the lid you can get a little bit of shrink tubing (like the kind you use for wiring) and insert the paper clip into it, then heat it with a heat gun or other heat source so it wraps tightly around the paper clip. You will end up with an insulated "pot lid handle" similar to the one on the lid of an MSR titan kettle. The tiny bit of shrink tubing probably won't even register on a scale. I've done this with foil lids and it works pretty good.

Dan

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: inserting an active hyperlink....... on 08/22/2005 02:03:57 MDT Print View

Bill,

one correction to the example of an active hyperlink. you need to end the anchor using the standard HTML tag ending format, viz.

it consists of the following sequence of characters without the commas or spaces separating them:
<, /, a, > - you use the 'a' in this case since it's an "anchor". likewise, you would use a 'b' if you were making it bold.

the best way to learn how to do this is to:
1) find a hyperlink in a post.
2) make a note of some or all of the text of the hyperlink
3) using your browser's View->Page Source pull-down menu choice (note: the wording of this menu choice may vary depending upon which Browser you're using, but you're clever and will figure this out i'm sure)
4) search the page source text for the text of the hyperlink that you noted in step #2 above.
5) look carefully how that hyperlink was implemented - copy it & paste it into your message (note: you may need to use the ctrl-c and ctrl-v key combos to do the copy and paste AFTER selecting/marking, using the mouse, the Anchor text that you want to copy. also, the context sensitive short-cut menu may be active. if it is, then you can just select the Anchor & use your secondary mouse button - if using Windows. Not sure how you do all this on a Mac)
6) modify the URL or address portion of the 'anchor' (the part between the dbl-quote)
7) modify the text that will be displayed, e.g. change it from >My Hyperlink to >Bill's Hyperlink, or some such text as appropriate.

Hope this helps.

Edited by pj on 08/22/2005 09:15:21 MDT.

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: UltraLight Outfitters Stove Stuff on 08/22/2005 02:12:49 MDT Print View

Bill,

try putting the can of beer in the freezer for 20min to get it colder. don't let it freeze though.

then, take it out & cut the lid off. this may stop or eliminate altogether any gases coming out of solution. also, open it in the sink to minimize any potential mess.

i've done this, in the past, with bottles and cans of soda that have been dropped or shaken up, or just gotten too warm. works real well.

Edited by pj on 08/22/2005 02:13:25 MDT.

Jim Colten
(jcolten) - M

Locale: MN
Re: Re: inserting an active hyperlink....... on 08/22/2005 02:55:31 MDT Print View

ACK! Sorry about that typo. I've edited the original post to correct it.

It ain't nearly as easy to include an example of HTML in a web page as it is to make a functional hyperlink.

This version might be easier to follow than the previous one:


<br><a href="insert URL here">insert the text you want to be visible here</a><br>

Edited by jcolten on 08/22/2005 03:07:37 MDT.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Re: Heineken Stove - 1.83 oz. on 08/22/2005 04:27:52 MDT Print View

Daniel: It does get a little hot. I was going to get one of those plastic coated paper clips today and cut a bit of the plastic off where it threads into the two holes I drilled in the lid and try that. I don't think it would get hot enough to melt... but if so... the shrink wrap tubing is a great idea! Thanks. The only thing I don't like is that it doesn't fold down for packing. I'd like to figure out a simple way to have it fold down or removed for stowing but stand up while cooking. It weighs more than foil of course... 6 grams :P

Bill: Unless you plan to use the lid as a primer pan it doesn't have to be leakproof. As a lid, the can top doesn't seal tight anyway... it just kinda sits on top. You want some steam to escape anyway. That's why I pryed the tab just enough to let the pressure out but not to break the hole all the way around. But if you do want to not break the hole at all... the sink would be a good idea :) The chilling idea is cool too (har har) :P

Jim's recent post about links is easier to follow. Just remember <a href=""></a> and copy/paste the URL into the quotes and type whatever you want for the link text within the open and close anchor tags. The <br> tags add line breaks. As a reminder, 'a' stands for anchor and 'href' stands for hypertext reference... I think... as in http... hypertext transmission protocal :) So you're basically saying, "I'm putting an anchor here and this is the reference (i.e. link)".

The dude who invented that yet another coke can stove needs to get himself a good cook can opener :) (or a Rosle or Cuisipro).

Edited by davidlewis on 08/22/2005 04:33:50 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters Stove Stuff on 08/22/2005 05:35:30 MDT Print View

David, My Fosters can lid still has the tab attached and I pushed it back down flat so I think I could use it as a lid with a small vent if I wanted to. You know that a true "Gram Weenie" would use a something like a zipper pull on the Cook Pot Lid. Take it off the zipper, use it for the lid, put it back on the zipper and hike on. In warm weather I only use a zipper pull on my sleeping bag/quilt. I use a few more zipper pulls when it is cold enough to need gloves.

I went through all my post that had a web link on them and changed them all to an "active" link. It is easy to do once you have a good example. I think I can do it from memory now. I wrote down the sequence and taped it to the inside of my top desk drawer. You know the old saying "a short pencil is better than a short memory". I was 65 years old yesterday so I have a lot of short pencils around. I need a lot as I always seem to forget where I put them..

I should send Ray a link to the Ultralite Outfitters web site and direct him to the section about the can opener. One of the things I think he was trying to do with the YACC stove was to make something really easy and could be made with the least number of tools. Things you might have with you on a hiking trip so when you step on your stove you can just make another one.

Edited by bfornshell on 08/22/2005 05:51:06 MDT.

Daniel Goldenberg
(dag4643) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwet
Re: Re: Re: Heineken Stove - 1.83 oz. on 08/22/2005 07:49:22 MDT Print View

David,
Sounds like plastic coated paper clips are the way to go, I didn't realize you could get those.

Re: Stowing the paperclip. It's easy to do. The way I've done it on foil lids is as follows: I first make the lid handle, shaping it into a "U" shape. I then bend the ends that will go into the pot lid a little less than 90 degrees and insert the ends into two small holes in the lid. After you insert the ends into the lid you can bend them again so the clip doesn't come out of the lid as easy but that's optional.

The lid handle can now fold down against the lid for flat packing. When you are going to use the lid you just rotate it 90 degrees till the part inside the lid hits the bottom portion of the lid to keep it from rotating and the lid handle will stay upright.

Not sure If I'm explaining this well but I can try to take a picture later and post it if it's not to clear.

Daniel Goldenberg
(dag4643) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwet
Re: Re: Re: Re: Heineken Stove - 1.83 oz. on 08/22/2005 20:21:14 MDT Print View

Here is the lid handle I made for a foil lid for use with a SP600 pot. Made from paper clip and heat shrink tubing.

bottom view is with handle upright.










Cheers

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Heineken Success! on 08/23/2005 20:17:48 MDT Print View

After a number of design changes and failed attempts (including one melted windscreen) I finally acheived success tonight. I got 2 cups of water up to a rolling boil for 2-3 minutes... and no melted aluminum :) Total weight of the system (minus tent stakes) is 54 grams... but I still have to add a bail to the can so it's easy to get your hot water off the stove.. so in the end it will be a little over 2 oz. I think the Heineken can is robust enough to survive the backpack without a stainless steel windscreen as a wrapper.

I just added my new creation to my gear list... and get this... this cooking system... pot, lid, windscreen, stand, burner and all... is the same weight as my socks... LOL!!!!!!!!!

Edited by davidlewis on 08/23/2005 20:55:04 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Heineken Stove and Others on 08/23/2005 21:23:55 MDT Print View

Congratulations David. I haven't had a melt down yet with my stove but I have had a few really good ones. All my fire related test are done outside.

I have been looking for stuff packaged in small and unusual Aluminum cans. I found a Japanese web site with some very interesting small stoves on it.
here is a link to it:
Japanese Stove Link
I want to make a few along the same line as these are. It is to bad the site is only in Japanese. I did find a link with some English but not really enough. The pictures say enough for me to get started. While all the stoves seem to work I don't know if they would fall into the catagory of backpacking stoves. Some look like they are light but how light do they need to be. It just might be fun to carry and cook on one even if it weighed a few ounces.

I would like to hear from anyone that looks at this site and read your comments. A competition may be in order - Small "Unusual" Cooking Stoves as the next Olympic Event. Rules negotiable. Prize donations appreciated, Management and Staff.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: Heineken Success!! on 08/23/2005 21:26:59 MDT Print View

Please do post a picture of the complete system. Would love to see the final product you've put together. I think I will probably go with something similar instead of ordering the Ultralight Outfitters' Beercan Stove. This has been an interesting thread... and your suggestions have been very helpful!

Daniel Goldenberg
(dag4643) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwet
Re: Heineken Stove and Others on 08/23/2005 21:59:02 MDT Print View

David,
It truly is amazing that you can have a stove/windcreen AND Pot with lid for 2.0 oz. I used to think my Snow Peak 600 mug was light at 2.8 oz!

Bill,
I stumbled on that web page a while back. I must have spent hours looking at all the designs. That stove down a ways that looks like a turbo charger made with a Pocari Sweat can looks interesting. If you back up that url (in the address window of your browser backspace over the "krono15.htm" and hit enter it gets you to the parent page. There are a bunch of links to the left with even more stoves and modifications. Some really interesting stuff.

There are several translating pages available that you can use. Try this one: http://www.google.com/language_tools

paste the URL down at the bottom and select Japanese to English and it will translate the page. Even the links that you click on will get translated. Unfortunately the translation is not always very good and sometimes hilarious but you might get an idea what they are talking about.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Japanese Stoves on 08/23/2005 22:05:14 MDT Print View

Wow! Bill, I just scroll through the site and was very impressed! For me living in Japan nearly all the materials that he showed are very easily available at any ¥100 discount store. Some fantastic ideas I never thought about, like using a kitchen sink drain screen as a pot stand. I've thought many times about using aluminum bottles to make a stove but could never quite figure out how to use the bottle neck opening. And some of the names of the stoves are great! Like "Ikaros Pantheon" (Ikaros would be "Icharus" in English), because of the column-like pot stands, and the "On-the-Rocks" Stove, because it uses pebbles inside. He also has a much-improved version of Ray Garlington's Wood Gas stove, which I'd like to try out. And one of the alchohol stoves weighs only 6 grams!!!

I haven't had time yet to really go through the page carefully, but there's a lot of food for thought there. How did you ever find the page???

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Other Stoves on 08/24/2005 00:05:06 MDT Print View

I have been to one of the 100yen stores in Kyoto many times. I found the Japanese Stove web site as a link on the Zen Stove web site. I found it a couple of days ago when I was looking at soda can designs.

I have just spent a couple of hours clicking on every active link I could find and got back to the basic home page.

As for the mod. Ray Garlington stove I haven't found it yet but here is a wood stove I made and use. I made it a couple of years ago it seems. It has been posted a few places and works really well. It is also light if you don't count the battery used for the fan.

I have worked with clay (a Potter) for about 35 years and have made several pottery kilns. With a little knowledge of combustion I designed the air inlet on the side of the stove to blow the air in so it would swirl around inside the stove and stay inside the stove longer than if it was just blown in from the bottom. The longer the air is inside the stove the hotter the flame. The"Sweat something" stove on the Japanese site uses the same idea I think. The basket looking thing is inside to hold the wood to give the air room to blow around the inside of the stove. I use a 9 volt battery on a small 12 volt computer fan. The 9 volt lets the fan run just a little slower which I think is better. One idea I had to get rid of the fan is to use a balloon. Get a piece of tubing and plug the hot end. Then drill a small hole. Then blow up a balloon and attach it to the cold end of the tubing. Let the air from the balloon blow into the stove very slow but with enough air to help the wood burn. If the balloon is big enough and the hole small enough the air should last long enough to get the fire going OK. If I used 2 balloons I could replace the empty with a full one etc etc. Is it worth saving the weight of the battery, I don't think so.

If you look at the last picture and see the ring around the top of the basket. The first one was light aluminum and I am going to replace it with one made out of Stainless Steel or Titanium one of these days.

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Edited by bfornshell on 08/24/2005 00:13:10 MDT.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Re: Heineken Success!! on 08/24/2005 03:52:04 MDT Print View

Miguel: I will post photos once it's all done (and plans once I get the time). I still want to add a bail and perhaps a cozy and MAYBE a primer pan (which could double as burner tray and soot cover for the can bottom if using esbit)... which would bring the total closer to 2.5 oz. I'm guessing... but still impressive. I hope to build the final version tonight.

I also spotted an aluminum tray last night that is made from a slightly heavier aluminum than the cookie sheets I've been using. I'm going to make a windscreen from that and see if it's much heavier. The super light aluminum works fine... but I'd say it's right on the edge of being about as light a gauge as you could possibly use. I'll cross-post in the 'make your own gear' forum too.

Edited by davidlewis on 08/24/2005 03:54:53 MDT.

Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
Ray Garlington - Gas Stove Mod on 08/24/2005 07:14:52 MDT Print View

Miguel,
I for one would be EXTREMELY interested in a link and / or translation of your take on his Ray-Mod on that sight. I can see some pictures but didn't see anything on a wood burner... of course, I can't read japanese...

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Japanese Wood Gassifier Stove on 08/24/2005 11:04:19 MDT Print View

Joshua, if you scroll down a little past halfway, the red Coca Cola can stove is the wood gassifier stove based on Ray Garlington's stove. I son't have time to translate everything, but basically he just talks about how a wood gassifier downdraft stove works and how he was not able to get below his target of at least 10 grams with this iteration of the stove. He compares it to traditional wood burning stoves that everyone used to use in Japan before methane became a household utility.

It's too bad everyone can't easily read this site; he obviously loves what he is doing and is having a blast doing it (some of his sidenotes are hilarious). Amd it's just great where he gets his ideas from, like the Russian Dolls fitting-inside-one-another stove. There's so much to look at though, it's hard to know where to start...

Patti Binder
(quiltbinder) - MLife

Locale: Southwestern Indiana
Japanese site translation on 08/24/2005 20:06:40 MDT Print View

Tried several translator websites, but this is the only one that could bust this site.

http://www.worldlingo.com/wl/Translate

It's still very hard to read. Reminds me of the engligh instructions for my Japanese sewing machine.

Patti Binder
(quiltbinder) - MLife

Locale: Southwestern Indiana
Japanese site translation on 08/24/2005 20:13:27 MDT Print View

Tried several translator websites, but this is the only one that could bust this site.

http://www.worldlingo.com/wl/Translate

It's still very hard to read. Reminds me of the engligh instructions for my Japanese sewing machine.

Daniel Goldenberg
(dag4643) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwet
More Heineken Can Stuff on 08/24/2005 22:12:49 MDT Print View

The mini bull designs "blog" has recently had some Heineken can stuff in it: Minibull Blog that might be of interest given the recent discussions.

It looks like one of those Livestrong or similar wrist bands works on the can for a lip guard.

The "sub atomic" stove down a ways looks pretty good for the heineken or fosters can since it has a small concentrated flame.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Beer Can Cook Pot Lip Guard on 08/24/2005 23:21:45 MDT Print View

Daniel, I had come to the same conclusion about the wrist bands a few days ago and sent for some samples. I got them today and they will work. They are not as wide and a little thicker but as you can see in the pictures they work on my Fosters Can. I may use 2 at a time to make them wider. The white band is the one that came with my Ultralight Outfitters Stove.

If you buy them blank they are $2.50 for 1 or how ever many you want. If you want something written on them you have to buy 20 or more but the $2.50 price is the same. Ryan should sell them with something on them like "SuperUltraLite" - you can only have 14 characters including spaces. They come in size medium and large. I have some of both sizes. The blue one on the can is a large.

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Edited by bfornshell on 08/24/2005 23:30:28 MDT.


(Anonymous)
Re: Heineken Stove and Others on 08/25/2005 00:22:22 MDT Print View

Hello,
Bill Fornshell and All.

I am JSB,and posted from JAPAN.
I'd like alcohol stove too.

Several years ago, I found the site of the Pepsi can stove. And it got interested. And the alcoholic stove of various forms is made himself or it has improved.
Many photographs are carried and it is trying to become intelligible hard.
for example,
http://homepage1.nifty.com/jsb/stovecorner/konro15.files/takos7d.jpg
It's carrries 400cc water boiled.
and made of aluminium can,just only 7g with 3 legs.


However, English cannot be used well.
As much as possible, I cooperate so that he can understand.
ps
This text borrows the help of translation of an @nifty site.


(Anonymous)
Re: Other Stoves on 08/25/2005 01:07:55 MDT Print View

cyclone combuntion wood tarbo stove


http://homepage1.nifty.com/jsb/stovecorner/konro16.htm

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Other Stoves on 08/25/2005 06:04:25 MDT Print View

Hello JSB. Welcome to this web site.

Many of us have looked at your web site for stoves. I have spent many hours studing the pictures of your stoves and looking at your web site thinking about how you made the stoves. The ideas are very clever, great. Some of us want to try and make some stoves like yours.

We/I can help you with the English and you can help us with the Japanese.


JSB first web site


JSB second web site


JSB Homepage

Edited by bfornshell on 08/25/2005 06:18:08 MDT.

Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
JSB & Bill on 08/25/2005 07:19:42 MDT Print View

JSB - Welcome! Your designs definitely look interesting. I'm glad you made your way here.

Bill - Are those armbands silicone-rubber? If so, depending on the tension, one could likely drop a couple around the main body of the can as a "cozy/grip-area", it would likely be a tad heavier than the bail, but would likely increase the "controlability" of using/pouring from the can. Silicone rubber can handle fairly high temps, and as long as the flame is concentrated on the bottom of the can, the maximum temp the bands will see would be 212 degrees F.

Yukio Yamakawa
(JSBJSB) - F

Locale: Tokyo,JAPAN
Re: Other Stoves on 08/25/2005 07:41:20 MDT Print View

Thank you for welcoming.
A photograph cannot be UP(ed) yet. The method is not known. It tries to understand hard.

「175500AA.AVI」

alsoko1

JSBJSB@JSB

Edited by JSBJSB on 08/26/2005 06:52:59 MDT.

Sunny Waller
(dancer) - M

Locale: Southeast USA
Beer Can Stove on 08/25/2005 07:44:15 MDT Print View

I have never had any luck using Esbit fuel. I could never get water to boil and I hate the soot. My stove kit came this week and I found the can opener at Walgreens in Atlanta. I stuck my Fosters beer can in the freezer for 20 min then made my stove. I did not pop the top..I bent it up slightly to put a small vent hole in it and used this for my top. Then I filled it up with 24oz of water and lit the Esbit tab. WOW. Boiling water on less than 1 tab. I belive the design of this stove with its tall windscreen gets the maximum output from the fuel tab. Soot is not a problem..only the very bottom of the beer can gets dirty. When you are done cooking you slide the fuel tray up (with a stick or tent peg) into the bottom of the beer can. This puts out the Esbitt tab..stores it there for future use and effectivly covers up sooty part of the pot. My only problem is figuring out the best way to grab the hot pot if I need to pour the boiling water into something else. I highly reccomend reading the tips on the Ultralight Outfitters website. It has great pictures :)

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Beer Can Cook Pot Stuff on 08/25/2005 08:21:17 MDT Print View

Joshua: Yes, the armbands are "100% silicone-rubber". They stretch enough to go around the body of the can. I just put one of the large size on my Heineken can and it went on easy. They weigh 0.22oz each. I think neoprene might be a little lighter. I will make a 1" neoprene band later and see how much it weights.

Sunny: Take a look at the wire (bail/handle) on my Fosters can pictures. This might be something for you to think about adding to your can. It makes lifting the hot can off the stove easy.

Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
Silicone Rubber is easier on 08/25/2005 09:01:03 MDT Print View

Bill,
I'd really appreciate a comparison of the weight difference between the silicone and the neoprene options for "holder/cozy" when you get around to it.

I realize that the Neoprene will likely be less weight, but sewing and such is not currently in my repetoire. However, making a henie pot with a silicone rubber "cozy" is right up my alley as it's premade.

Thanks!

Also, the nice thing about those bands are that they are reusable. I found a product called extreme tape (pure silicone) that would do the same thing, but it's thinner, more expensive, and permanently sticks to the can.

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Grabbing the hot Foster's can on 08/25/2005 09:16:06 MDT Print View

Any chance of multi-use here?

What about trying a combo of a folded bandana/microfiber towel & a Poss'mDown Glove (or equivalent)? Glove alone???

If all you want to do is pour, then this might slow down the heat transfer sufficiently to accomplish this task (e.g. rehydrating food in an O.P. Aloksak already situated in a "sack" style cozy).

If you want to drink from the Foster's Can, then it's too hot already. By the time it's cool enough to sip, perhaps the same bandana/glove combo (or just the glove alone) might be sufficient.

Any thoughts on these thoughts?

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Beer Can Cook Pot Stuff on 08/25/2005 09:28:03 MDT Print View

Joshua: I hand sew the cozy so it only takes a needle and some thread. Hand sewing is easy, you should try it.

I will make a neoprene band as soon as I send this and weigh it.

The first one I made is 2-1/8" wide so I
will make this one 1" wide.

One thing I have discovered is that the Heinnken cozy being just a little bigger than the Fosters can lets me lift the Fosters can off the stove and set it into the Heinken cozy. I can then slid the cozy up the Fosters can a bit if I want to and pick it up by hand.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Beer Can Cook Pot Stuff on 08/25/2005 10:35:13 MDT Print View

Joshua:
Neoprene 1" Cozy Band
- Total time to make: 10 minutes max.
- weight of the 1" neoprene band is 0.15oz.

Silicone Name Bands
- Large size weight is 0.22oz.

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Sunny Waller
(dancer) - M

Locale: Southeast USA
Re: Beer Can Cook Pot Stuff on 08/25/2005 12:20:24 MDT Print View

hey whats the name of your helper??

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Make Gear Helper's on 08/25/2005 13:36:43 MDT Print View

Hi,
Sunny asked "hey whats the name of your helper??"

Her name is Cinnamon, she is one of four kittens I was able to get away from a stray Mama when they were about 4 weeks old. I have played Mama and Daddy to them for the last 4 months. I have tried to catch the Mama to get her fixed. She is to wild to let me get that close to her. I have been able to get her kittens from the last two litters and they are fixed. These four will get fixed in about another month. I have two other cats that stay in the house over night and during the day when they want to. One is 18 years old and the other is about 1.5 years old. The young one is a real sweety that was thrown out of a car by a ***** one night while I was walking near my house. He was about 6 weeks old at the time. I named him Baxter. He and the 4 kittens have so much fun playing. He is like there big brother. I don't think anything else has ever made me laugh so hard as I do watching them play.

Together they are always testing my gear for durability.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Hot Pot on 08/25/2005 19:06:38 MDT Print View

For lifting a hot pot, the bicycle spoke bail is brilliant. A 15 gauge stainless spoke will weigh 5-6 grams. This is all I will be using on my stove since I don't drink hot beverages anyway... so I don't think I need a cozy.

jacob thompson
(nihilist37) - F
Can pot on 08/25/2005 19:26:42 MDT Print View

I think for this one I'm going to contact Tinny from Minibull and see if I can get him to fashion me up a heineken can with the nice handle. I'm willing to make that weight sacrafice. I drink a little tea from time to time on the trail but I think the stability of the handle is the main point that I like. I will also make a semi cozy for the pot. I think some velcro tabs will work fine for putting the cozy on.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Can pot on 08/25/2005 22:09:36 MDT Print View

his handles are pretty cool... the pop rivet part at the top is easy for anyone to do... but I want to know how he gets solder on the bottom part without melting the can.

I also found that with my spoke bail... when it's folded down it can kind of double as a handle since i let it stick out about 3/4" from one side of the can... i'd have to post photos probably to make this clear. I also like the bail because if I ever lost my fuel or ran out or whatever... I could easily hang the pot over a cook fire. Plus I like that if folds down out of the way for packing.

I'll post photos of all this maybe this weekend if I get a chance. The final stove... with pot, lid, windscreen/support, bail, stove (mogo firefly) and rubber band (for keeping the lid on when packing... could double as lip guard for sipping tea) is 2.1 oz (61 grams). No cozy. No primer pan. And if I want to use esbit, I figure I can just flip the firefly over and use that as a burning platform. The only thing I'm not crazy about with the design is that I had to make a 2 piece windscreen since I couldn't find cookie sheets big enough for a 1 peice. Then again, I figured that when there is no wind, I can leave the small back peice out to let the stove breathe more.

Edited by davidlewis on 08/25/2005 22:17:10 MDT.

John austin
(tinny) - F
Re: Re: UltraLight Outfitters Beer Can Cook pot Stove. on 08/26/2005 05:25:23 MDT Print View

I can send you fosters 24 oz cans for the shipping fee. I have tons of them and I also can supply them with handles and a lid. to see the product go to www.minibulldesign.com and click on the adventure site.

John austin
(tinny) - F
Re: Fosters Beer Can Subsitute on 08/26/2005 05:32:14 MDT Print View

The reason that this works so well on the jetboil is it is welded to the pot, not just setting un it. it must be bonded to the pot to transfer the heat. this is why it doesn,t work that well for you


(Anonymous)
Re: Re: Other Stoves on 08/26/2005 08:00:25 MDT Print View

Alflighttype3

50mm diameter
ALFLIGHT stove by JSB

Yukio Yamakawa
(JSBJSB) - F

Locale: Tokyo,JAPAN
Re: Re: Re: Other Stoves on 08/26/2005 08:02:36 MDT Print View

Alflighttype3

ALFLIGHT stove by JSB

Carol Crooker
(cmcrooker) - MLife

Locale: Desert Southwest, USA
Materials and Weight on 08/26/2005 08:58:37 MDT Print View

Hi all,
I just published a SpotLite Review that should answer your questions about weight and material.

Sunny Waller
(dancer) - M

Locale: Southeast USA
Re: Make Gear Helper's on 08/26/2005 13:30:19 MDT Print View

Bill..I suspected you were a softie :) I will work on my beer can..a cozy will probably work the best. In my 30 years of backpacking I have had many near misses and some of them involved pouring boiling water holding a swinging pot by a bail. I am a potgrabber or handle on the side of the can type of gyrl. I wonder what would happen if I put 3 of the silicon bands up near the top. Maybe thats high enough not to melt.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Re: Make Gear Helper's on 08/26/2005 13:40:30 MDT Print View

Sunny... thanks for the words of wisdom :) I suspect you are right on... there is no substitute for having a firm grip on a pot full of scalding water. I think what I will do it... if I do make a cozy... I will make it out of neoprene and just slip it on the pot after cooking. I'm pretty sure it will melt during. I'll try those bands too.

Sunny Waller
(dancer) - M

Locale: Southeast USA
Re: Re: Re: Make Gear Helper's on 08/26/2005 13:50:52 MDT Print View

I do not have any neoprene. I made some gram weanie flip flops out of a blue foam sit pad the other day so I have some scraps left over. Guess I will try that out. I think i would also rather grab the can by wrapping the cozy around it versus sliding the cozy down the hot pot. Could put velcro on it I guess

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Re: Re: Re: Make Gear Helper's on 08/26/2005 13:54:10 MDT Print View

"think i would also rather grab the can by wrapping the cozy around it versus sliding the cozy down the hot pot."

Oh... I fully agree... I'm just pretty sure that the neoprene will not survive with it on during boiling. But we'll see. The best solution would of course be to have it on while boiling. I guess this works with the JetBoil because the heat sink soaks up all the heat from the sides before it can get up that high... plus you don't need a windscreen with a JetBoil and the windscreen... to be effective... has to be fairly high... and therefore will really concentrate a lot of heat right next to the beer can. Anyway... more experiments this weekend :)

Edited by davidlewis on 08/26/2005 13:55:07 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
UltraLight Outfitters Stove Stuff on 08/26/2005 17:36:16 MDT Print View

Sunny: I credit my cats and kittens in a very large part to my recovery from cancer. I should say I guess, that they really helped me keep my mind off the treatment. I was in the hospital for 8 weeks from Nov 2005 till 13 Jan 2006. I was able to go home most days for 8 or so hours. I would work on backpacking gear and play with the cats and kittens. I would laugh so hard at their play my side would hurt. Anyway they will be taken care of the best I can as long as they live. There were my support group. The cancer is dead and I am slowly working through the side effects. Life is good.

The plan for your Cook pot should work. I also carry a light pair of glove liners with me that could be worn when cooking.

When doing a test boil the flames from my stove didn't look like they went up to the top of the pot. The heat might and I will boil some water with the cozy band on it and see what happens.

Making a cozy from the blue foam pad is a good idea.

Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
Concerns about neoprene on can pot on 08/27/2005 07:07:33 MDT Print View

David,
Neoprene on a can pot will be subjected to a maximum temperature of 212 degrees from the aluminum. The maximum temp of the water is 212, and the thinness of the aluminum doesn't prevent heat flow at all.

The only problem would be is if the flames were climbing the sides of the pot and touching the neoprene. However, as long as you've controlled the height of the stand and the flame from your alcohol stove or esbit tab, that should be no problem.

The added benefit of having a cozy on the pot is that any area covered by the cozy will not need a windscreen due to neoprene's insulating nature. At least, in theory it shouldn't. When I get some time I'll make an insulated can pot and a low power alcohol stove and test my theory.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Concerns about neoprene on can pot on 08/27/2005 08:40:33 MDT Print View

Thanks for the info Joshua!

I have had problems with the flames licking up the pot... since it's such a tiny diameter pot. But I think I could move the stove or esbit closer. One thing that just occured to me is that I measured the distance from the top edge of the stove to the tent stake supports... but because a can pot has a deep depression in it... the actual bottom is effectively another 1/4 - 1/2 inch away!

As for the windscreen height... I always thought that the reason for a windscreen to go higher up the pot was for better protection against the stove being blown out... not to keep cooling winds off the pot and funnel more heat around the pot. If that's the case, I will make my stand/screen a little shorter.

John austin
(tinny) - F
Re: Can pot on 08/27/2005 18:17:58 MDT Print View

The handle is already done. to see it go to---http://minibulldesign.com/myadventure/media/1/20050824-CUP5.JPG


Have a great day!!!!

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Re: Can pot on 08/27/2005 19:06:37 MDT Print View

You handles look really cool John... and probably lighter than a neoprene cozy... I'd just prefer a solution that's more packable (i.e. the cozy or a collapsing handle or bail). One idea might be two bails that, when folded down, could act a handle.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Melted cozy on 08/27/2005 19:56:08 MDT Print View

Ok... after redesigning my windscreen to be lower and fighting with my sewing machine all evening trying to figure out how to sew neoprene... I finally got a new prototype with cozy.

The windscreen has a 3/4" gap, comes up just to the top of the lower "band" on the heineken can (about 1.5" up the pot) and the pot to burner distance is about 1". Cozy melted. Flames were licking up the side of the pot.

However, I started wondering if MORE distance from the flame might be the answer? I keep trying closer and it's not helping. I've observed that alcohol flames tend to "stick" to other surfaces within a certain distance. So I donned some mitts and lifted the can while the stove was burning... and sure enough... with more distance, the flames don't crawl up the side of the can. Somewhere around 1.5 to 2 inches seems about right. Further than 2" would probably slow down boiling too much.

One other thing I discovered... the glue in that aluminum tape stuff... highly flameable... LOL :) Good thing I keep a big pot (a real pot) on hand to stuff out flames in case of disaster :) Fire extinguisher is always on hand too in case things get really hairy. Anyway... the tape put on quite a show. It seemed like a great idea for making a peice of foil long enough for my windscreen. Oh well. I'll have to use a mechanical connection. I just wish I could find some bigger cookie sheets.

Edited by davidlewis on 08/27/2005 20:09:03 MDT.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Options for lifting a hot can on 08/27/2005 21:29:32 MDT Print View

The options for lifting a beer can full of hot water seem to be as follows:

1. Handle
(like the minibull cans). I don't know how to do the soldering, so I haven't experimented with the handle option. I wonder how hot it would get tho' being soldered right to the can. In any case, I don't like the packability of a can with a non-collapsable handle.

2. Bail - 6 grams
Works great for lifting the can off the stove. Doesn't work well for pouring. The can is not so stable and when you pour with your hand so high above the steaming water, the steam tends to come right up to your hand when you try to pour. I would try a double bail to add stability, but you still have the problem of really hot steam coming into contact with your pouring hand. Plus it's just hard to pour with such a high fulcrum.

3. Cozy - 11 grams (3.25" band)
I've tried a number of different pot to stove distances and I always get cozy-melting flames licking up the side of the small diameter pot. I've thought about making a cone shaped one for the top of the can where the flames can't get to it (like the lip guard) but I'd be worried about it slipping off.

4. Pot Grabber - 14 grams
I've decided that, although perhaps the heaviest option, this is by far the best (without having tried a handle). This can grabber I made from a coat hanger is very strong and has an extremely good grip on the pot being wedged between the lip and first "flare" of the can. The key is to make the ring as round as possible and to not make the ring the full diameter. Make the ring about an inch shy of the full diameter so you can get really good spring tension when you clip the handle ends together. Also, this thing is very easy to clip on and off... so you can leave it off while cooking/boiling so it doesn't pick up any heat... and just clip it on when you're done. It also stows inside the can. Don't mind all the messy kinks in the handle. This is the first and only one I've made (my very first idea actually which I rejected due to weight)... so it has a lot of kinks from different bends I was trying. The next one will look much nicer and be easier to grab. It stows in the can BTW. You could make it to clip below the top big ring in the can... but I tried that and if you're not careful, you can crimp the alunimun there. The can is strongest at the lip (and base of course). Total system weight (can, firefly stove, windscreen/stand, lid with handle, can grabber and elastic band to hold the top on for stowing) is 2.35 oz. (67 grams).
















BTW... Ultralight outfitters says you can lift the can by the lip guard. I've tried it and I don't think it's the best solution. It's very hot... it's a very small area to grab... it could slip off... etc. Most of all though... it's hot!

p.s. I never drink hot beverages... so that's not a design condideration for me. I'm just trying to find a safe, stable, cool to the touch way of getting a can of hot water off the stove and into my food pouch.

Edited by davidlewis on 08/27/2005 22:04:15 MDT.

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Option for lifting a hot pot on 08/27/2005 22:06:01 MDT Print View

David, I really like your pot handle. I may see if I can make one like it out of one of my Titanium bike spokes.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Option for lifting a hot pot on 08/27/2005 22:14:36 MDT Print View

Titanium would be good because it's strong and yet springy. I may also try a heavy gauge stainless spoke (I can't get titanium spokes here... bike shops don't carry them). The coat hanger was just a first experiment... but after playing with bails and cozys and lip guards I've decided that this is the only way to go (for me). So now it's time to refine a bit. The coat hanger works great since it's so strong and springy. The last thing you want with a pot of scalding water cantelivered at the end of a grabber like that is for the grabber to fail. A heavy gauge spoke might work... but I don't know how much lighter it would be (if at all).

p.s. the fake 'livestrong' bracelet I got at my local dollar store melted... big time! Maybe it wasn't silicone.

Edited by davidlewis on 08/27/2005 22:15:17 MDT.


(Anonymous)
Nothing new under the esbit sun on 08/27/2005 22:50:30 MDT Print View

Hog On Ice and Stovestomper were using esbit stoves and heineken cans years ago. It's amazing to see how people freak out when someone makes a new esbit holder...haha.

David, that pot grabber looks dangerous. You will have to use a very tight grip to hold and pour the weight of two cups of water having only a couple millimeter lip to keep it from falling out. Be careful with that boiling water.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Nothing new under the esbit sun on 08/27/2005 22:59:53 MDT Print View

Trust me anon... it's rock solid. I don't have to use any grip stength at all... none... the grabber does the gripping with spring tension (see the way the back of the handle clips together... and see how far appart the ends are when unclipped... spring tension). I've held a full can of water with that thing (more than 2 cups) and bounced the can up and down... swung it to and fro... poured it out... filled it from the tap at full pressure... whatever... it doesn't budge at all... i cannot get it to fail... it's clamped on there tight as a vice... really. So far, I'd say it's far better than the other options I've tried... in terms of both function and safety. And I've tested it with hot water too.

As for nothing new... it's new to me... and I'm having fun "freaking out", experimenting, inventing and learning from others.

I might add, there are a lot of homemade alcohol and esbit solutions out there... but I don't see many complete kits (lid, pot, stand, windscreen, handle, stove/esbit holder) for 65 grams. This is just an experiement for me to see how light I can make a complete and very functional kit... and it's a lot of fun... in a weird, geeky inventor kind of way :P

Anyway, I'll stop posting for now until the design is completely finished and trail tested... probably in a week or so.

Cheers.

Edited by davidlewis on 08/27/2005 23:25:26 MDT.

R Alsborg
(FastWalker) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Everything Old Becomes New Again on 08/28/2005 00:29:39 MDT Print View

Not to take any of the steam away from the stove inventors, but maybe you might want to check out: http://zenstoves.net/ or http://zenstoves.net/CanPots.htm

My personal homemade (but not original design) is a Hybrid Red Bull, Pressurized Side Burner, Jet Alcohol Stove. Note this stove doesn’t require a pre-heat disk

When finished the stove weighed in at 0.22 oz.

Add the Home Made Heineken Pot, Fuel Container Plastic (4 oz. Alcohol), Taco bell Plastic Spork, Home Made Pot Cover (Aluminum Foil), Home Made Wind Shield / Heat Reflector (Cut from a Turkey Broiling Tray), Pot Grabber (Commercial Available from MSR) and a Small Pot Scrubber.

The total weight of my kitchen (Minus Consumable, Alcohol Fuel) was less then 2.5oz.

I’d recommend anyone interested to build a alcohol can stove, it’s cheap, easy and fun…

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Everything Old Becomes New Again on 08/28/2005 00:56:44 MDT Print View

Hi Roger, Thanks for your imput. The Zen Stove site has been referenced several times on this thread and some other cook stuff related threads.

The total weight of your kitchen at 2.5oz is nice. For a hike of a couple days that might work for me or some of us. For a longer hike, say on the AT for many miles I have what I call my Luxury Kitchen Kit at just under 2 pounds. I want to eat something close to real food and bake a muffin at night if I feel like it and not just survive. I don't want to lose a lot of weight etc. I also don't want a lot of little stuff that isn't very strong and could break easy such as your Plastic Spork.

I do appreciate clever and you kitchen kit at 2.5oz is a clever grouping of things. However even with my 2 pound kitchen kit I am under the SUL 5 pound barrier.

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Options for lifting a hot can on 08/28/2005 01:55:15 MDT Print View

David,

Great pot lifter. Love the K.I.S.S. (Keep It Short and Simple) aspect of your design. Beauty in simplicity. Very nice. Very clever. Good job.

Edited by pj on 08/28/2005 01:55:58 MDT.

Dondo .
(Dondo) - F

Locale: Colorado Rockies
Re: Options for lifting a hot can on 08/28/2005 10:39:02 MDT Print View

David,

I really like your coat hanger pot grabber; can't wait to make one. Another solution I found is to cut a piece of blue foam to fit inside of your hand. The weight of the piece I cut is 5 grams.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Re: Options for lifting a hot can on 08/28/2005 11:48:36 MDT Print View

A few things about the lifter...

1. Make sure it's a fairly heavy gauge coat hanger... you need really good spring tension to get a good grip.

2. Make the handles narrower where they hook than where they meet the can. This will give you good tension on the can.

3. To make the hoop, use a soup can as a bending tool/guide

4. Make both hook ends full "U" shapes... one 90 degrees to the other... so they hook like a chain. The prototype just had an "L" shape for one of the hooks and it was possible to hit the end of the "L" with you hand and have the hook slip out.

5. You could make one to grip the can below the top bump in the can (just above the label) but my concern there is that you could have too much tension and deform / crimp / mildly crush the can enough so that the grabber might fail... and also wreck your can. I found that at the top of the can... just below the lip, I can ratchet that thing as tight as I want and it won't hurt the can... provided the hoop is a perfect circle.

6. Obvious... but test it with cold water first :)

I'll post a full write up in "make your own gear" when I get a chance... and I plan to trail test it this coming weekend. I may also make a bubble wrap foil cozy for simmer purposes... just like the anti-gravity gear cozys (i.e. for a "cook in the pot" meal... bring to a boil... attach the grabber... and transfer the pot from the stove to the cozy to simmer and keep warm).

Edited by davidlewis on 08/28/2005 12:13:35 MDT.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Options for lifting a hot can on 08/28/2005 12:04:04 MDT Print View

Ok... I know I said I was going to hold off on any more posts until I was completely done with the design... but since a few of you are already making can grabbers... I figured I should post the updated design. It's safer because of the way it hooks now (with two U shapes).

Notice how far apart the handle ends are when unhooked... makes for a very firm grip (lots of spring tension) when hooked:


Ends hook together like a chain:


Notice how I angled the end that hooks from above up a bit. I did that so that the two handles would be on the same plane with each other when hooked. That little angle up accounts for the thickness of the wire which otherwise would make the handles slightly askew from each other.

Edited by davidlewis on 08/28/2005 12:07:06 MDT.

Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
Back to the original kit specs... on 08/28/2005 16:16:26 MDT Print View

I don't remember anyone mentioning it, but Arizona Iced Tea makes iced tea cans on 23.5 fl oz size, I think they are the same can as the fosters. So, for those of you who don't do alcohol and want a can that meets the original specs (as it seems from pics that the henie can prevents the slide-up to squelch flame technique) you might try the Arizona can.

Sunny Waller
(dancer) - M

Locale: Southeast USA
Re: UltraLight Outfitters Beer Can Cook pot Stove. on 08/29/2005 10:08:33 MDT Print View

Bill..I am SO glad you are better. I use to leap tall mountains with a single bound until I had a collision with a drunk driver. My boss gave me a jack russell pup that has made such a difference in my recovery. After 9 years I am back on the trail again because of light weight gear. Dave: Some of your remarks imply that you might be one of those creative ultralight gear inventor geeks :0 I resemble that remark. My friends call it "fiddiling" and I am only happy while doing it. I fiddled with that stove again and this time it melted my silicon ring that was up at the top :( I like this stove too much to quit..now if somebody can just tell me where I can find a metal coat hanger...

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Re: UltraLight Outfitters Beer Can Cook pot Stove. on 08/29/2005 10:13:29 MDT Print View

Sunny... I know eh?!?! It's crazy. You can't seem to buy metal coat hangers anymore... just plastic. I want to buy them regardless of my "inventing"... for my closet. The plastic ones take up way too much space. The ones I used were from my closet... left over from another era I guess. I imagine dry cleaners still use them, but they're probably really light and flimsy. I don't think I bicycle spoke would be strong enough... but maybe if it was really heavy gauge.

Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
Even though it's expensive on 08/29/2005 13:48:47 MDT Print View

I think Bed Bath and Beyond has SS hangers.

David Lewis
(davidlewis) - MLife

Locale: Nova Scotia, Canada
Done! 2.18 oz. on 09/01/2005 18:33:46 MDT Print View

My Heineken stove is finally done. I just tested it with Esbit. I LOVE this stuff!!! It brought my water to a boil in half the time of my alcohol stove and once there, it kept the boil going for 4 mins! My alcohol stove often goes out just after reaching a boil... even with it's full fuel capacity (which is quite small). The soot is nasty... but I'll just scrub it off the pot and keep the esbit burning cup I made in a small zip lock. Alternately, I may use a second cut off lid for the burning cup as that would fit right to the bottom of the can. Oh... and the can grabber worked great!!! It was cool to the touch after boiling with the grabber in place. The heat seems more concentrated at the bottom with Esbit that with Alcohol... maybe... I don't know... but it was very cool to the touch.

Total system weight (weighed as a whole) is 61 grams, 2.18 oz... not counting the tent stakes. Here are the specs when I weigh each peice:

Pot: 27 grams
Pot Grabber: 13 grams
Windscreen / Stand: 10 grams
Burner Cup: 2 grams
Lid w/ handle: 6 grams
Elastic Band (for packing): 1 gram

It worked like an absolute charm. I love it. Much less fuss than alcohol too.

My only last addition may be to make a Reflectix cozy for simmering (off the stove) "cook in the pot" meals. Enertia has a number of great meals that require 4 mins. of boiling in the pot to cook... which works out perfect for a whole Esbit tab. Once the tab goes out, take the pot off the stove and set it inside the cozy to cook fast and well and stay nice and warm :)

I'll post pics and plans in a few days. Need to get ready for a trip this weekend.

Edited by davidlewis on 09/05/2005 16:05:02 MDT.

Jim Colten
(jcolten) - M

Locale: MN
Best price for Good Cook Safe Cut can opener? on 09/07/2005 19:29:50 MDT Print View

SOOOOO, who's found the best price for the Safe Cut can opener?

Some folks have reported getting them at Walgreens ... but the Walgreens in our town are all saying "we used to carry it, but ..."

Kitchen Collections carries them and their retail stores here stock them but nearest one is a 40 mile round trip.

kitchen collections online store has them for $6.99 ... $13.79 with tax and shipping.

Anyone found a better source?

Edited by jcolten on 09/07/2005 19:31:24 MDT.

Daniel Goldenberg
(dag4643) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwet
Re: Best price for Good Cook Safe Cut can opener? on 09/07/2005 21:27:54 MDT Print View

Check the good cook website for places that sell it, because it seems to vary from state to state. Here in Washington Wallgreens does not carry them but Safeway stores do. Regular price is like 14 dollars or so but with a the Safeway card I got mine for under 10 dollars. It may have been on sale.

Hector Agdeppa
(flipside72) - F
Re: Best price for Good Cook Safe Cut can opener? on 09/08/2005 08:32:05 MDT Print View

I found the good cooks can opener (or a knock-off) at Target that works on the big Heini and Fosters cans for under 10 bucks.

Yukio Yamakawa
(JSBJSB) - F

Locale: Tokyo,JAPAN
Re: Re: Beer Cans in Japan on 09/12/2005 07:17:29 MDT Print View

sss113007AA

1000cc缶の寸法
80Φ 200mm高さ
高さを切り詰める場合には、重ねると丈夫になるので
下記を参考に、加工してください。

http://ikaros.air-nifty.com/ikaros/images/2dannstove3_thumb.jpg


外側になる缶を、あぶって、変色するぐらいにトーチで加熱する。
重なる両面にバター(叉は マーガリン)を塗る。
サンドイッチみたいに、2枚の板に挟んで、軽く数回に分けて叩く。
名付けて
Torch and  Butter  (トーチ アンド バター)

Yukio Yamakawa
(JSBJSB) - F

Locale: Tokyo,JAPAN
Re: Re: Re: Beer Cans in Japan on 09/14/2005 10:08:05 MDT Print View

http://www.th21.jp/bbs/jsbjsb/thumbnail/jsbjsb_216864999.jpg?050711

hight=120mm
about 500cc

John austin
(tinny) - F
Re: Back to the original kit specs... on 09/17/2005 10:12:16 MDT Print View

Arizona ice tea cans are taller and narrower and made with thinner metal--quite flimsey. heineken is thoughest

Vick Hines
(vickrhines) - F

Locale: Central Texas
Re: Everything Old Becomes New Again on 09/27/2005 16:45:11 MDT Print View

Fastwalker,
Second your cook kit.. I call it a kit-in-a-can, and have found them to be durable and versatile. I'll have to check out Taco Bell - didn't know they had sporks.

I've made these form the 24 oz Heineken cans and their 12 ounce cans. The 12 oz. can doesn't save much weight since everything else I have to carry with it stays the same. However, it is sort of fun to watch people's faces when I pull it out and start dinner. Reactions run the gammot... including indignation. It's amusing to watch someone go into high dudgeon regarding another hiker's use of a diminutive cook set.

I use a very slightly different set of stuff in my cans: 1) a one ounce measure for alcohol to avoid getting the fuel bottle close to the burner. That's just a safety precaution. It's a cut-down 1 oz. bottle with aluminum tape marking 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and 1 oz.; 2) Oven-liner lid with handle made from a fold of aluminum flue tape - simple, neverfail, light; 3) book matches in a 2x3 ziploc; Heineken can with a band of stainless 19gauge wire holding a simple wire bail - instead of a pot lifter. Everything else is the same. The only thing I have had to replace is the spoon , windscreen (too much folding), and the matches -- in hundreds of uses. I don't think Heineken cans wear out if you just boil water.

R Alsborg
(FastWalker) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Re: Re: Everything Old Becomes New Again on 09/27/2005 17:25:23 MDT Print View

Vick,

Your “Kit In A Can” list looks good its as they say “Keeping with the ultra-light philosophy of simplifying and keeping things light”

As far as wear goes my Heineken can is starting to show a few dents and isn’t as pretty as it was when I first started using it this spring, guess its time to pop the top on another cold one.

By the way here are some other sources for Free Spork’s:

Taco Bell
Rally's
Kentucky Fried Chicken
Popeye's Fried Chicken
Toronto Eaton's Center Food Court (bignell@io.org)
Taylor's Fish Bar (mapdn@csv.warwick.ac.uk)
Plate Lunch Places in Hawaii (macpro@lava.net)
Bojanges (alucas@sunbelt.net)
Taco Mayo (robertw@fullnet.net)
Cumberland Farms New England
Your Local 7-11 retail market (Gr2frye@aol.com)
Lee's Dragon Chinese (warren@ccse.net)
Tom Thumb (colomid@flash.net)
COSI - Ohio's Center of Science and Industry Cafeteria (nbellomy@mc2-csr.com)
Syracuse, Kansas Love's Convenience Store, located at the intersection of Highway 50 and Johnson St., 2 blocks east of the only stoplight in town (LarryH@TCHMAIL01.TCHDEN.ORG)
Kona's Sandwiches (spaceace2@geocities.com)
Pucker Belly Bobs Cajen Cuisine (spaceace2@geocities.com)
Bob's Meat Shack (jshib@travelin.com)
Food Lion (mudhouse@mudhouse.com)
QuickTrip Convenience Stores (severson@umr.edu)
Chick-Filet's (KMCCORV@wpo.hcc.com)
Chester Fried Chicken (Weevils@aol.com)
Boler Bump Ski Hill in London Canada (ringoffspring@geocities.com)
Many Pre-Packaged Meals (VMFZ36A@prodigy.com)
Hardee's (student@mankato.msus.edu)
yokihoma rice bowl (guschavez@hotmail.com)
Pima County Adult Detention Center - Tucson, Arizona
El Pollo Loco
Jail (turtle#nospam@fred.net) - I'll take his word for it! --J
Lee's Famous Recipie Chicken (cyborpunk@mindless.com)
Beau Schott's House of Chicken in Spokane, Washington (tamaki@ewa.net)
Wang's Chinese in Arizona (kycat@goodnet.com)
"Use of Spork, Luke!" (SporkGod1@aol.com)
Kenny Rodgers Roaster's (lkover0@pop.uky.edu)
Castles and Coasters (SporkQ@aol.com)
Boston Market (stevekos@localnet.com)


(While your there don’t forget to collect a few hot sauces or other condiments on the way out. They can make all the difference in some of those “boil in a bag” meals)

Edited by FastWalker on 09/27/2005 17:26:39 MDT.

Vick Hines
(vickrhines) - F

Locale: Central Texas
Spork on 09/27/2005 17:29:14 MDT Print View

Roger,
are we talking about the same thing? The runcible spoon? A spoon with tines?

I suppose I haven't been in a fast food joint in a while.

R Alsborg
(FastWalker) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Re: Spork on 09/27/2005 17:47:20 MDT Print View

Yes Indeed Vick,

Half Spoon, Half Fork, All Miracle!

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
Re: Re: Spork on 09/27/2005 19:36:54 MDT Print View

> Half Spoon, Half Fork, All Miracle!

Agree with that, but I carry either a lexan or titanium spork since I broke one of those fast-food plastic sporks.

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Re: Re: Everything Old Becomes New Again on 09/27/2005 22:55:17 MDT Print View

Roger,

great list. i'm still chuckling as i write. not to ignore the other list items, but "Pima County Adult Detention Center - Tucson, Arizona" (didn't know "guests" were allowed to have anything pointy?) & "Lee's Dragon Chinese" (a rich man's chopsticks?). BTW, lately i've been using take-out chopsticks on the trail (i figured, i use them at home for most meals, so...). they're also lighter than my Ti Spork and more robust than a hard, plastic spork - haven't broken one yet. some years ago, i came across a "soft", somewhat flexible plastic Spork - too soft to snap; worked really good. Wish i knew where that was now or where i got it (was it served with a meal during a stay in Ward 8??? can't seem to remember. electro-shock has a way of doing that!!!).

Edited by pj on 09/27/2005 23:55:02 MDT.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Re: Re: Re: Everything Old Becomes New Again on 09/27/2005 23:33:25 MDT Print View

Love my freebie Taco Bell sporks. I sold my heavier Snow Peak ti spork.

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Everything Old Becomes New Again on 09/27/2005 23:52:42 MDT Print View

Ben,

i don't frequent any "fast food" joints, so are the Taco Bell Sporks hard plastic or softer, more flexible?

would really like to find a Spork like the one i'm remembering - virtually unbreakable - could bend it nearly "stem to stern" and twist it. it still was stiff enough (due to "dorsal ridges" to borrow an analogy from the Spork website a prev. poster included - had Comp. Anat. myself many yrs ago, so really enjoyed that link) to hold up a mouthful. yeah...it would have fatigued and broken eventually, but man, what a spork! a real "man's spork", no doubt.

Edited by pj on 09/27/2005 23:55:32 MDT.

R Alsborg
(FastWalker) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Everything Old Becomes New Again on 09/28/2005 00:44:15 MDT Print View

Reference Lightweight Backpacking 101:
Lightweight Backpacking Defined, Lightweight backpacking involves using the lightest gear to meet the needs of an overnight (or longer) wilderness walk.

So opens the questions…

Does one need an indestructible high-tech titanium spork with a lifetime guarantee?


Is it “The Spork that makes the Man” or is it “The Man that makes the Spork”?


Bottom line… Yeah there are trade-off’s in durability but the same can be said for the some of the finest ultra-light gear out there such as the G6 Pack, Stealth Spinnaker Tarps or Carbon Fiber Trekking Poles.

Regards,
FastWalker

paul johnson
(pj) - F

Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Everything Old Becomes New Again on 09/28/2005 02:10:29 MDT Print View

Roger,

perhaps in all cases but one, i would say it is "The Spork that Makes the Man". why? basically, if i don't get my 3 hots and a flop (ok, so the spork has very little to do with the flop unless i use it as a tarp/tent stake or, in my case, tape it to my forehead when turnin' in to hold my bivy off of my face) i'm not much on the trail the next day. so, the Spork feeds me and allows me to exhale water vapor out through the bug netting of my bivy.

the one case i'm thinking of where "The Spork...doesn't...make the Man" is in the case of Bill Fornshell. why? he's made his own spork!!! (see another thread). so, in the case of Mr. Fornshell, we all must say that "The Man makes the Spork" - and what a spork it is!!! Bill, u da MAN!!!

Edit:
Roger, after posting this reply to you & displaying the posts in reverse chrono order, i noticed the title of this thread. man, we're talkin' spork in the wrong thread. my apologies to all. i'm outta' here.

Edited by pj on 09/28/2005 02:12:46 MDT.

Sunny Waller
(dancer) - M

Locale: Southeast USA
Re: UltraLight Outfitters Beer Can Cook pot Stove. on 10/06/2005 13:37:43 MDT Print View

I went out and tested my UltraLight Beer can stove. I used the recommended Fosters Beer can with the winscreen and stove stand that came in the kit. For a top I used the cut off lid instead of aluminum foil. I also added a pot grabber-the MSR LiteLifter which adds 1 oz. The grabber, esbitt fuel, lighter and REI ti-spoon (its shorter) all pack up inside the can. I put the top back on and secured it with a rubber band. When packed up it has some rough edges that can snag your gear so I wound up putting it in a stuff bag. I used the setup on a weekend backpacking trip in extremely windy weather. I was pleased with the results. The stove is simple and very easy to use. I had no trouble lighting the Esbitt tab in the wind using the windscreen as a block. One tab boiled a can full of water (3 cups) which is enough for my meal and my hot drink. If I only need water for coffee or soup half a tab will work. When you are done the entire stove packs up in a way that covers up the part of the pot that has Esbitt soot on it-which is great. This stove will definitly be the one I use on weekend trips. I highly reccomend it for anybody that takes groups out because it allows everyone in the group to have their own stove and it is much safer for rookies to use than other type stoves.

Mitchell Keil
(mitchellkeil) - F

Locale: Deep in the OC
Add a CUP to the Stove Kit on 10/17/2005 12:29:44 MDT Print View

Addendum:
Although it is definitely not a gram weanie approach, I have a suggestion as an add on to this stove. I really like to have a cup of soup or tea or some other hot drink while my hot freeze dried meal is rehydrating (and I don't like drinking from my pot which may be in use reboiling water.)So I have modified a GSI 16 oz lexan straight sided mug by cutting off the handle and adding a wrap of 1/16 inch evazote foam around it. Hot liquids in the cup stay hot for a very long time even in cold weather. And here is the best part of it. The cup inverts and becomes the cap on my Beercan stove kit sealing in the fuel, spoon, lid and protecting the better part of half the entire stove kit from damage in my pack. I have etched marks in the lexan for 4oz, 8oz, and 12oz levels so I can accurately messure liquids for boiling or serving. The added weight of 1.5 oz is a small price to pay for creating a compact kit that also has an additional serving utensil which protects the whole thing and keeps liquids hot.

I was looking for the specific GSI mug on their site and can not find it. Apparently, they no longer make the one I have had for several years.

You may want to look at cutting down a lexan water bottle from Nalgene which will also work. It is just a matter of finding one that will fit as a cap on the stove. I guess I am lucky in having had this mug on hand.

Edited by mitchellkeil on 10/17/2005 13:22:27 MDT.

Vick Hines
(vickrhines) - F

Locale: Central Texas
Re: Add a CUP to the Stove Kit on 10/18/2005 11:37:04 MDT Print View

Our friends ar Ziploc make an 8 oz-capacity storage cup (blue lid) weighing about 10 grams (about 0.35 oz.) If you like a larger cup, the bottom half of a Platypus works, too, and folds into the pot easily. You gotta use both hands with it, but it also makes a good dipper at shallow springs.

Yukio Yamakawa
(JSBJSB) - F

Locale: Tokyo,JAPAN
Re: UltraLight Outfitters "Beer Can" Stove on 11/13/2005 09:23:40 MST Print View

ssssannmaru

日本で有名な龍角散の丸容器

フタに小さい穴を開けて、中央をやや凹ませる。

グラスウールなどがあれば、内部と底面に敷く
55mmΦ*22mm hight 7g
容器にエチルアルコールを入れて
丸い皿にも少しアルコールを注ぐ

BEER-can ESBITstove との絶妙な組み合わせ(予熱皿付き)
マルチ燃料ストーブへの誘いでもある

応用範囲が広いストーブは、何かと便利です

Edited by JSBJSB on 11/13/2005 09:36:23 MST.

Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
Yukio's modified alcohol can kit on 11/14/2005 12:30:56 MST Print View

Yukio,
Or someone who can read Japanese. very nice. Did you use a mint can to make that stove?

Bill Fornshell
(bfornshell) - MLife

Locale: Southern Texas
Yukio's Stove on 11/14/2005 16:26:10 MST Print View

He is my best guess at what Yukio-san is saying:

[The small round aluminum cntainer of a famous Japan product called Ryukakusan (Dragon Corner Scatter?? these maybe mints). A small hole is made in the lid and the center is dented in a little (Two rows of 8 holes each are made in the container lid - see picture). If there is glass wool etc.? ( I think this means the can is filled with steel wool and is used like a wick), The round container is 55mm by 22mm and weighs 7gr. Alcohol is put into the small can and also put in the cup on the stove stand. You can see something in the cup on the stove stand and I guess this is also steel wool. (with 予熱皿)??
The stove stand is from the Ultralight Outfitters "Beer Can" stove. The stove stand can be used very nicely with a wide range of stoves making it a very "multi purpose piece of gear".]

Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
Thanks bill! on 11/15/2005 12:59:03 MST Print View

Nicely done Yukio!

Clarence E Couch
(GeneC) - F
Good Idea on 09/22/2007 20:31:03 MDT Print View

I just got the system and used my P-38 can opener to take the top off the Fosters can. I find the rubber lip guard thingy unnecessary. I also found that a pull tab top off a 25oz soup can makes a perfect lid w/ handle. However, I found that one fuel tab did NOT produce a boil, even with the lid on. Overall, it's a keeper.

Edited by GeneC on 09/22/2007 20:35:14 MDT.