Ah, don't get your braids in a wad Sven. Let the kids play.

Sven,

Your response to my post is well taken and you are right. In restrospect, I should have just opined that it is a tad bit expensive and let it go at that. Another lesson in discretion. I am sorry. I value the opinions on gear, including yours, and the discussion here in this forum and certainly do not want to jepordize or diminish the quality of this exchange. To you Sven and everyone else here, please forgive me for these intemperate remarks.

The Caldera FAQ has pictures of various ways to pack it, including my own method of using a Clorox WipeIt Container. What I like about the Caldera system is (1) it works great, (2) it holds the pot super well, and (3) with alcohol you are able to ration your daily use and not need to overpack fuel. 1.5 oz of alcohol a day was sufficient for our needs and (4) of course, it works efficiently and it did not get so hot that the bottom of the pot turned black.

I have tried about 3 other brands of alcohol stoves/screens and none of them came close.

The Caldera FAQ is here:

http://www.traildesigns.com/caldera-help.html

Edited by marti124 on 11/07/2007 20:36:45 MST.

"Don't criticize something just because it has success."


Sven:

This is the gear forum. We LOVE to inquire, introduce, describe, question and debate gear -- ad nauseum.

We all have our own gear selection criteria -- both objective and subjective -- and thus it's always safe to say that no one system is "best" for everything. That aside, it is perfectly legitimate, educational, and downright fun to praise as well as criticize gear pieces. The most useful criticisms are the ones that both state the positions and provide supportive arguments for or against.

I posted my responses only after reading many posts and seeing some of the photos. I also included my own reasons for being less than impressed with the system -- i.e. in relation to my own styles and preferences -- which may or may not be anything like yours.

But when posters react with words like "stop it" and "grow up" -- I think that can really bring any exchanges down to the level of personal attack -- even if unintentionally. Why do that?

Edited by ben2world on 11/07/2007 21:50:47 MST.

Ben - I was really getting annoyed mostly by the choice of words - including yours - i.e. "monstrosity", "Seriously?" "arrogance", "outrageous" etc. with regards to the stove. I don't have any vested interest in that stove or any emotional attachment to it but the comments came very much across as "how could anybody in their right minds buy this piece of gear?". My reference to its popularity was in response to comment about the inexplicable "buzz" (Jason Klass) and the "the enthusiastic support for this windscreen (...) from testers who received a copy at no charge" (John Kays). I thought that John Kays'reaction to my comment was thoughtful; your last post that "this is the UL forum" unfortunately reinforces my initial impression of your take on the Caldera cone. You don't have to like it, but don't tell me that (a) this is not a light and efficient system that very well works for a lot of people and (b) that my (usual)posts and reviews are not in the spirit of this wonderful forum. This is why I spend 16 hours per day on it, as you probably do as well. And you are right - maybe I should have left the "grow up" comment out. I certainly don't mean to personally attack anyone but rather value anybody's thoughtful input. I will replace it with "let's try and stay objective, fair and balanced while remaining critical". OK. Gotta take that wig off now.
Cheers,
Sven

Terms like "monstrosity" are as legitimate as terms like "great" -- at least the former is not as overused as the latter. IMO anyway, both are fine -- so long as they are explained. What I really can't stand are short responses that say a piece of gear is either "POS" or "great" -- and then just stops without explaining why!

You'll notice that I took out "UL" in my post above -- that was before you posted your response -- but obviously after you've already read the earlier version. I don't see the Caldera as heavy per se -- but it certainly isn't compact.

BTW, your wig is just fine! It stands out without being offensive. :)

Edited by ben2world on 11/07/2007 22:36:59 MST.

Not to interrupt the two of you but. . . .

I use the Caldera system with the MSR titan pot. In order to pack my system I use two 4 cup zip lock screw top containers. Two? Huh?

Well the wind screen is just a bit too tall to fit inside of a zip lock container so I cut the bottom out of one container and then slide in into the other. I can then fit the stove, fuel, spork, soap, scrubby, and small towel inside with the lid screwed closed. I then nest the zip lock container inside my titan pot and put the whole thing in a stuff sack.

I know I could simply just use a stuff sack but I like having a screw top container to use as a cup around camp. Not to mention I like having a strong, light cooling package that I can pack almost anywhere without having to worry about crushing anything.

The entire package is less than 8” tall and weighs in around 6 oz.

Edited by chadnsc on 11/08/2007 08:56:47 MST.

Ben & Jason,

I drink a pint hot beverage at breakfast and dinner as well as real cooking and the occasional water to wash my hair. Alcohol stoves fit my style, but when the trip is longer than two nights I have always switched to canister stoves. The Caldera has changed that. It is efficient enough that I am planning a six night trip with the stove.

The 4 cup Ziplock container that works with the AGG 3 cup pot has other uses also. I found that I needed to carry the bleach, tabasco, olive oil, etc. squirt bottles in a hard sided container because they would leak when squeezed in the food bag.

I have made dozens of alcohol stoves, I own Brasslite stoves, some mini-bull stoves, Sgt Rocks Ion stove and even an OES heat and simmer stove combination. My "go to" stove is the Caldera. The other stoves work fine, but I was always searching for something better. I am now satisfied with my kitchen kit.

The stoves that I find do not fit my style are:

The Beeer Can ESBIT stove, and

BushBuddy Ultra.

The cost was high and I made it worse by paying $20 to trade in my old tab Caldera for the new design and a cozy. However, I am a happy customer.

Richard:

How many cups of water do you boil (for cooking) versus heat up (for washing hair, etc.)? How much alcohol do you plan to carry for your 6-day trip? Thanks.

As I am in Europe, I have not been able to find Ziplock containers. Thus my original question. Once again thanks for all the tips, I will look for similar containers to the Zip Lock

I guess Ben and I are like a quarreling old couple, haha! All is well in the land of UL.
Cheers guys.
S.

Ben,

At home with tap water .5 oz. will boil 2 cups. I find that it takes .75 oz. in the field with colder water, etc. 1.0 oz. will generally boil enough to rehydrate the meal and make a pint of hot beverage.

After dinner I use .5 oz to boil a cup then cut it to cool it to take a bandana bath and clean the pot.

Every other day I like to boil a pint (.75) and pour into a Platy then mix with cold water to touch to wash my hair.

For the six nights I will have two 12 oz. bottles of HEET. I expect to have left over, but I will burn off the excess fuel on the last night. Hot tub anyone?

Thanks, Richard. Knowing this is useful for determining our individual options.

Just to CMA, I do believe in HYOH. So, go ahead and use it if you want. And if you read my original post, you'll see that I didn't make any universal claims. I presented my opinion of the CC from MY point of view and MY packing style:

"I'm going to be far less diplomatic and more irreverent than Ben and go as far as to say that the CC is the LEAST compact system for an alcohol stove that I've ever seen. While I don't consider myself a hardcore ultra lighter, I can't see how it would even fit into my packing style in any practical way. I would never carry it and can't see what all the buzz is about. There, I've said it! ;)"

Also, as already stated above, this forum is all about public, anal-retentive scrutiny so all is fair game. Some just happen to be fairer game than others; like the Caldera Cone. ;)

P.S. I also hate the Walmart Grease Pot, so there!

Edited by jasonklass on 11/08/2007 19:07:26 MST.

Do you have any strong feelings about the JetBoil? Or anything else? :)

Ben, I'm glad you asked. Yes, I also don't like the Jetboil. But that's another post for another time. Don't egg me on here! After all, we're supposed to be trashing the Caldera Cone! Let's stay focused now. One thing at a time.

"Choose your first stove wisely. It is easier to get a man to change his religion than it is to change stoves." Colin Fletcher

Packing flat seems to be the easiest and most compact, and least likely to slice into other gear or get bent edges.

I slide it in between my foam mat ('frame') and the outside of my pack (Jam2). Perhaps if I had really fragile pack material I'd put it on the inside of the mat.

I have tried numerous ways to pack the cone (flat against the inside of my pack, wrapped around my SP Trek 900 cookpot in a stuff sack) but have found my preferred method is to wrap the cone tightly around my 8 oz. plastic fuel bottle, with a small 30 ml measuring cup on top and put both in a gallon zip-loc bag (from the grocery store, not from the Calder Kitchen set), carried in an outside pocket of my pack in case of fuel leaks and so that it is easily accessible. This is not one of the smaller cones, but it does fit inside the zip-loc with room for my alcohol stove. I realize not everyone prefers to carry their cookpot separate, but I fill mine with food so that I'm employing the empty space inside. And my cookpot has measuring marks so that I don't have to carry an additional container to measure water.

I second the notion about preferring the CC for use on longer trips. I no longer worry about carrying heavy fuel canisters since the equivalent amount of alcohol fuel weighs significantly less, and I can re-fuel at any local hardware store.

I'm all thumbs when it comes to making gear. I end up butchering the material and wasting time and money. I'd rather pay somebody with the time and tools to do the job right.

So far, the Caldera performs better in the wind than any other alcohol system I've used. My experience is that the stove, pot and windscreen must be designed as a system, not a collection of parts for maximum efficiency. The Caldera fits the bill for me.

Edited by lazybones on 01/29/2008 22:34:02 MST.