I'm looking for advise on the best shelter for use in Virginia, Maryland, & lower Pennsylvania.

The biggest constraint is that it has to be misquito & spyder proof.

It also has to perform well in condensation prone weather (65-75 degree days with 35-40 degree nights) - with only a mild breeze.

It also has to have minimal windblown rain (even if the wind direction shifts) or rain splatter problems - even when I didn't stake it down tight to the ground (&/or lower any storm panels) because I wanted the cooling / ventilation and was hoping it wouldn't rain...

It also has to be relatively "fool proof" for inexperienced hikers &/or non-careful youths to stay dry despite their tendancy to bump the sides & top occaisionally.

So far, it sound like I'm stuck with a small, hard to move around in, 4 pound double wall shelter. However, I'm hoping there is something lighter, something that's not a sauna in hot humid weather, and has room to move around inside the shelter...

I'm thinking of using a Tarptent with mesh side walls and beaks. How do the Henry Shires and Ray Jardine tarptents compare to a small double wall tent without peak vents (like the Sierra Designs Lightning, or the MSR Hubba Hubba) in terms of keeping inexperienced hikers &/or non-careful youths dry during high-humidity weather or windy rainstorms ?

ps: The Big Agnes SL2 at just under 3 pounds sounded good, but was way too cramped...

Thanks.

The Seedhouse 3 SL is bigger -- and still fairly light.

Thanks. The SL3 is around 4 pounds, just like the SD Lightning, and the MSR Hubba Hubba... It's also 5 inches wider than the SD Lightning, but has less steep sides, so I imagine the SL3 is not much easier to more around in without contacting the condensation laden walls than the SD Lightning.

Is the HS Squall 2 or Cloudburst any roomier & easier to more around in (while dressing, or getting gear stored at the foot of the shelter) than the Lightning, Hubba Hubba, or SL3 ?

I believe the BA SL3 has much more space -- esp. in the mid-section -- which is where it counts -- more so than at the two ends of a tent. Click over to Big Agnes and check out the floor diagram. Better yet, do a physical "crawl in" to be sure.

Edited by ben2world on 11/02/2007 15:54:22 MDT.

I own a TT Contrail and love it.

BUT a self-supporting tent is almost as nice as a self-supporting wife. (My wife doesn't read this site, natch.)

Still, I'll take my Contrail for the light weight and the quick set-up and tear-down. AND all the interior space.

Eric

I use the tarptent contrail. It has plenty of space inside to move without making contact with the walls. Even for a 6 foot tall person. The humidity is much lower were I live however.
I have a freind who uses his contrail out east and has reported problems of misting from condensation on the walls during heavy rains.

John,
Are you looking for a 2 person or solo tent? The Contrail is solo, and a great tent. I love mine. The Cloudburst has more vertical walls than the Squall2 and may be less prone to being bumped into. They are both 2 person tents. I also own one of each and they are great tents. I think if I were you, though, I would check out the Rainbow or Double Rainbow. I don't have these tents, but they are reportedly very roomy. You might consider Six Moon Designs tents also.
-Mark

Edited by markhurd on 11/02/2007 16:56:23 MDT.

"It also has to perform well in condensation prone weather (65-75 degree days with 35-40 degree nights) - with only a mild breeze."

Be careful about using the oh-so-light single wall non-breathable tarptents in the above-described situation -- esp. if breeze is less than mild. As a solo user, I know how to manage a reasonable amount of condensation by periodic wiping of the walls and controlling movement inside my tarptent. But with kids romping around, that may be just asking for trouble.

Edited by ben2world on 11/02/2007 17:00:43 MDT.

I have the Six Moons Designs lunar duo and find it extremely roomy (even for 2), quick to set up, really light, etc. If you hike with trekking poles you're set!

"It also has to perform well in condensation prone weather (65-75 degree days with 35-40 degree nights) - with only a mild breeze."
I didn't find condensation issues with my lunar duo until temps went from warm days to temps below 30* but that was in higher elevations and not near water.
Is this for two adults, an adult and youth, more, less? Did I miss something?

The shelter will be for 2 people. About 1/2 the time the 2nd person will be an "inexperienced" adult - where "inexperienced" really means someone who tends to ignore any advise I give them and assume that everything is as foolproof as the 4 man double wall tent they have experience with. (ie: My wife or another parent on a 3-5 hiking trip with the Boy Scouts).

The other half of the time, the 2nd person will be one of my kids (ie: a non-careful youth). They'll be using down bags with nylon DWR coated shells - which is why I'm so concerned about contact with condensation covered walls and rain storms.

I have a SD Lightning. It much more prone to condensation than my SD Meteor Lite due to it's small volume, narrow with, and lack of peak vents. The inside of the fly was hard not to press against (right through the mesh inner tent) when rolling to the side, or dressing, or exiting, etc. A tarp was soudly vetoed since it allowed spyders, so I'm hoping a bigger single wall shelter with enough ventilation to handle the high humidity of VA & MD will solve my problems.

Are the tarptent style shelters likely to meet the diverse needs listed in my 1st post - or is this just wishful thinking ?

Thanks.

John:

Given the issues with condensation and rough usage... I really think you will do better looking at the more traditional, "boy scout friendly", double-walled, three-season tents. Some are lighter than others. Take a look at the Eureka Pinnacle 2XTA or 3XTA models.

As stated, single-wall silnylon tarptents are prone to condensation -- certainly more so than your SD Lightning! As well -- and perhaps even more of an issue -- the ultralight tent fabric and tissue-soft no-see-um mesh won't stand up well to kid or careless adult abuse.

Edited by ben2world on 11/02/2007 18:37:54 MDT.

Yes, Ben has a point. Having just recently seen fit young people way out of their comfort zone inside heavy,spacious and strong tents, I will have to remember to add "warnings" to my Tarptents and the like gear.
I would raccomend an overnighter as a gear test before any more challenging walks.
Franco

I'm hoping to find a 2 person shelter in the 2.5 pound range since I have to carry 2 sets of gear in order to prevent the kids from having to carry too much weight. I'd also like to use two 2 person shelters rather than one 4 person shelter since so it's easier to find an area big enough to set it up without major rocks & roots being under the sleeping area.

The kids are 8 and 10 years old. Old enough to treat things gently enough that the 40 denier mesh & fly of the SD Lightning is at about 50% sturdier than it needs to be. (I couldn't find any specs to translate the 1.1 oz/yd fly & 1 oz/yd netting for the HS tarptent into denier).

Also, the condensation on the SD Lightning is only a problem if they end up pressed against the side while they are sleeping or rub the sides / bump the ceiling when they are dressing. I'm hoping the higher ceiling and wider walls of a tarptent will fix those problems.

Also, the SD Lightning doesn't allow enough of a breeze for VA & MD's hot humid weather - especially when I have to close the fly zip at least 1/2 way since it looks like it "might" rain. On the other hand - the SD Lightning handles blowing rain & shifting wind very well. I'm hoping the mesh sidewalls with overhanging eaves of a tarptent will allow a breeze without creating problems during thunderstorms.

Do the tarptent's higher ceiling, wider footprint, and mesh walls protected by overhanging eaves work anything like I'm hoping ?

If I really just need a larger double wall tent - then does anyone have any advise about how the Big Agnes "Seedhouse" SL3 performs in the field compared to the new Big Agnes "Emerald Mountain" SL2 ?

Thanks.

Sounds to me like the Tarptent Rainshadow is the perfect tent for you--very roomy for 2, breezy, bug proof, rain protection and is the right weight.

The double rainbow is a huge tent. I think its big enough for 2 adults and 2 dogs or thereabouts. It has a very easy setup as well. I think it weighs in around 3ish.

"The double rainbow is a huge tent. I think its big enough for 2 adults and 2 dogs or thereabouts."

They'd have to be miniatures (dogs).
From a BPL review: Bathtub floor length 88 in (224 cm), width 48 in (122 cm), height 43 in (109 cm).

I wouldn't consider the Double Rainbow a "huge" tent for two by any stretch of the imagination -- 48" width is tighter than many actually -- although you can certainly sleep two inside -- and park one dog in each vestibule...

Edited by ben2world on 11/02/2007 21:12:37 MDT.

I have one and have taken it on many treks. It sleeps two adults very comfortably inside with room to spare at either your head or foot (your choice).

If your dog(s) absolutely MUST go inside the tent with the two of you, the earlier poster is correct. they had better be really, teeny tiny.

It sounds like you might not have used a Tarptent- they're different than standard tents.

The floor on a standard tent goes straight up to create the sidewall of the tent. Not the case with Tarptents. Instead, the bathtub floor goes into mesh that is not vertical- instead it comes at an angle to meet the silnylon single wall. This creates far more headroom than a typical tent, increasing usable space. Sure, the bathtub floor isn't huge, but the amount of covered space and the "airiness" of the tent exceeds the size of the floor.

This is not the case in the side of the Rainbow, which go straight up, but it certainly is on the head and foot end. (The non-Rainbow Tarptents have this extra space on all sides.)

The cross pole at the top also increases usable space in a similar way to the cross pole of the MSR Hubba Hubba.

Remember, when considering the usable space of a tent, there's more than just the floor dimensions to consider.

Great space in the vestibules for dogs, but I think the claws would chew up the silnylon floor pretty quickly.

dj