Oware/Bozeman Mountain Works Alphamini

Wow, I'm drooling.

Holy CR_P!

Availability?

I think I just wet myself.

Tom

Nice! Anyone know what the floor dimensions are?
Paul

This post gives dimensions for the cuben mid that Ryan used:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?display_style=nested&forum_thread_id=2493&nid=19164

Not sure if the current Alphamini has the same dimensions but it's probably in the ballpark.

it's been well past 8 weeks since that post ;p

The price will no doubt be shockingly high as well...cuben fabric ain't cheap.

This is a link to the thread of mine when I was working on my version of

Bill's 2 Alphamid's

This was a long time ago and Dave at Owearusa.com made a comment on the thread about having them but I don't remember if any were made out of Cuben and I don't remember the price.

I do know how many square yards of Cuben the one I was working on would need. My design used 5.58 sq yards. My design may have been a bit smaller and also was taking into account the max width of the Cuben I had at the time.

As for the cost of just the Cuben material. The way I buy it averages about $17 a running yard. That is about $102 for 6 running yards. The Cuben material (only) would weight between 2 and 3.4 ounces. You could pick how heavy you want the Cuben material to be. The 2 ounce version would use 0.35 ounce and the 3.4 ounce would use the 0.60 ounce (sort of) sq yard Cuben.

If or when BMW sells a Cuben (Owearusa.com) Alphamid my price guess is between $350 and $400.

I wanted to add a note about the real cost of Cuben.

Cuben Fiber Corp always adds a handling fee, $10 - $20 even for a small order. So add a buck or two per yd more for that in DYI qtys.

I order in larger qtys than a DYI'er and so the handling fee works out to around $1 p/y more.

Since it is thin stuff they ship it in a nice protective (heavy) tube so the shipping weight & cost is not real cheap. For a DYI'er the ship weight is almost the same as when I buy 50+ yds. SO, again for a DYI'er add about $3-4 per yd and for a large qty order $1-2 p/y.

So, to order 6yds, the real cost to a DYI'er is about $20-22 p/y. This was the case for me whan I was first using it and ordered small amounts.

However.....As I started using more, I ordered larger amounts. The fiber is made in "panels" of about 10yds - not long continious rolls. If I am making tarps from say 3yds cut pieces- I get to the end of the Panel and then there is 1-2 yds left...Too short for a tarp with no seams. (Already plenty of pieces left from the tarp cuts for stuff sacks, etc...) SO, that extra 1-2 yd piece is not really good for prime products and so that is partial waste and the cost of that lost yd is then factored back into the cost.

I figure my real cost for Cuben at about $23- 25 p/y!!!

If others have had it shipped for less or without handling fees- More power to ya.

So, basically, cuben equals the big ouch cost-wise? Not surprising. There's always a trade-off somehow after all.

Tom

Dan,
Thanks for the posting link. I sort of remember seeing a picture of Ryan's 'mid from his hike.
Paul

From the pictures at Oware, it looks like there are no vents whatsoever. Is this supposed to be a sweat lodge, like the Native Americans used?

Ron convinced me of what I already knew at heart, Cuben is simply not feasible economically nor as a durable material. Manufacturers would better serve their customers by selling disposable gear made out cheap lightweight material such as cellophane and produce disposable tents. $29.99 for a package of three, for example. If Cuben is so delicate that it must be packed in it’s own body armor, where is the practicality in using it? Or is there just the cache in owning a $600.00 perishable tent that attracks buyers? Might as well throw your hard earned cash into thin air.

Au contrare Senor John!

Expensive? YES! Disposable? NO!!!

Cuben is wicked strong. Its tear strenth is amazing and it hardly stretches at all. I had my new BMW Nano 0 set up in my back yard for 2 weeks. Downpours and today we had a rippin' wind storm. But unlike Silnylon it didn't stretch and lose it's taut pitch. And its much stronger than Spinnaker. And it's WICKED light. You have to seal the seams for strength, sure- but don't go thinking that Cuben isn't strong...it's remarkably strong!

The down side of Cuben is abrasian resistance. You don't want to drag this on the ground or carry it through underbrush. But for a shelter without a floor, it's genius. Super expensive genius.

I've had a Cuben pack and stuff sacks for a long, long time. This stuff has proven far more durable than silnylon. It might LOOK like a plastic bag but comparing it to one is like comparing Tupperware to high modulus carbon fiber.

No need to buy it if it's not for you but if you want the strongest SUL shelter areound- fork out the big bucks.

Edited by djohnson on 10/18/2007 21:58:59 MDT.

Doug,

You could sell snow plows in Panama. Seriously, your deadly. But just as much in earnest, there has got to be a better way. I like the Alphi, by the way, but I think I will wait on the 16 oz, breathable version for 299.99.

Edited by johnk on 10/19/2007 21:49:28 MDT.

> You have to seal the seams for strength,

how do you seal the seams for cuben? you seal them just for strength or also waterproofness?

I think it is interesting that there are so many packs made of Cuben (even if most of them are do it yourself jobs). I would think that a tent (or tarp) makes a lot more sense. If your main concern is abrasion, then I would think it would be much easier to baby a tent than to baby a pack.

I hope there are no manufacturers out there who are thinking "hmmm, I could make a nice tent out of that Cuben stuff, but the cost would be really high, no one would buy that...", because that simply isn't true. Ron Bell has been quite successful making products with one thing in mind: saving weight. A lot of his stuff is very expensive, but has sold so fast he has trouble keeping up. A lot of it is that we are used to paying a certain amount for a product, so when when the price goes up, the first reaction is "That's Crazy!". After a while, you get used to it and just roll with it. I rarely see people talking about buying a synthetic sleeping bag because it is cheaper than a down one. People pay the big bucks for down even in the soggy Northwest.

Edited by rossbleakney on 10/19/2007 18:01:38 MDT.

Hi Inaki- You seal Cuben with silicone sealer. This provides waterproofing but is especially for strength. Cuben is really strong but the pierced holes from sewing compromise that along high-tension seams. The issue is greatly reduced (if not eleminated) with seam sealing. I use the Jay Ham technique shown in the MYOG article on this site.

Ross- I have a Cuben pack but when you say "so many packs made of Cuben" I'm curious where you're looking. My first generation Mountain Laurel Designs Revelation is Cuben but the newer packs are Spinnaker- presumably for increased abrasian resistance and decreased weight. Other than MYOG packs, I don't think there's a Cuben pack on the market- and for the same reasons you mentioned.

Cuben is especially good in high tension, non abrasian applications. Tarps and stuff sacks are great applications for the product. That is, of course, if the expense is reasonable for you.

A bivy sack bottom is fine with abrasian but less on the puncture front- I'm not sure how a Cuben bottom bivy would last...but I'm willing to try!

I'd love to see a Cuben tarptent with a spinnaker floor. That would be cool. And how about a Cuben Fiber/carbon fiber umbrella? Anyone?!?

> I'd love to see a Cuben tarptent with a spinnaker floor.

Doug,

I'm kind of surprised that you'd want a spinnaker floor over a cuben one. I have been playing with bivy designs and obsessing (MYOG syndrome) over fabrics and, if money is not an issue, would choose cuben over spinnaker for the bottom because of better abrasion resistance.

Spinnaker would be my 2nd choice because of weight. (And I'd be fine with you talking me into it because of cost. ;-) )

Steve

Oware has them on the website for $400

www.owareusa.com