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If Only Someone Made A.....
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Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
Back to the wish list on 10/23/2007 22:04:48 MDT Print View

Back to the wish list.
A running over-night pack has been first on the list forever. Heavily padded and durable, but without the back pad every other pack insists on putting in doubling the weight.
I would like something right around 1800 ci at about 6-8 ounces with separate options to have a bladder or just side pockets.
Of course the bladder would have to be horizontal like the new Inov 8's out there, but I would opt for the side pockets.
I started the John Muir Record Attempt with the Nathan HPL 759. I ripped off the back end loop and pocket and it worked while starting with 16 pounds.

Running packs just don't work very well when having more than 12 or so pounds directly on your shoulders.
This is why I belive the 1800 ci would work better.
You also have to have the bottom of the pack fit right in to the small of your back to help take the weight off your shoulders or the pack is basically useless over 12 pounds.

No one on the market even has a running pack with the right fit as mentioned above. Even the Adventure Racing Packs don't cut for a true speed running fast-backpack.


My 2nd hit on my wish list is an Event jacket similar to the ID Pullover (no frills) but with using even a lighter Event fabric for this. This shouldn't weigh any more than 6 ounces.
MLD has 2.1 ounce Event which would do it but the ID Pullover has a 40d exterior nylon which just kills the weight.

Everyone else here has some excellent ideas as well.
The thing is, we've been asking for this for what seems like forever and since Event and Cuben have hit the market we have been begging for it.
A lot of the manufactures that will be getting to this gear, (hopefully sooner than later) are cottage manufactures like Ron who started this post in the first place.
So Ron, and others, when will anybody step up to the plate to make any of this gear is a better question?

I don't believe anything anyone has mentioned can't be done.

Edited by awsorensen on 10/27/2007 16:47:37 MDT.

R C
(beenay25) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: Re: Re: Re: eVent poncho on 10/23/2007 22:31:52 MDT Print View

Well again, I'm not doubting his experience; just saying that I've heard that very same one story from the same person in a lot of places.

Adam Kilpatrick
(oysters) - MLife

Locale: South Australia
Re: Re: If Only Someone Made A..... on 10/24/2007 00:43:21 MDT Print View

I totally agree with Mark...this would be great, particularly if it has a sewn-in floor option to make it totally bug proof, particularly with crawling things like leeches.

I think a cross between an alphamid and a lunar solo would be the go here-but with the pitching dynamics sorted out so its easier to pitch, like Mark said

Adam Kilpatrick
(oysters) - MLife

Locale: South Australia
Re: Re: Pack/Bivy Combo on 10/24/2007 00:50:12 MDT Print View

This simple concept, at least as a "half bivy" has been around with mountaineering packs for years.

Macpac's original Torre Pack was designed to be big enough to take a climber up to the waist, with his jacket covering the rest, for impromptu bivouacs.

I think this is a concept that will work easily with practically any top loading pack...and yeah, would work fantastically well if there was some kind of roll top extension as a full bivy

Adam Kilpatrick
(oysters) - MLife

Locale: South Australia
Synthetic/Down hybrids on 10/24/2007 20:43:55 MDT Print View

What is the insulative performance (eg R/mass) of compressed down (eg underneath a sleeping bag, quilt footbox, on the back of your jacket while you sit in a chair, on the seat of your pants, etc) compared to compressed synthetic fills, closed cell foam, and sythetic fleeces? We all know that you are better off with an insulating mat rather than a down sleeping bag underneath you. I would hypothesise that synthetic fills and even synthetic/natura fleeces (such as polartec, possum down, etc) have better insulative properties when compressed than down does.

While this should really be the subjective of scientific testing; wouldn't it make more sense to insulate areas of insulating garments and sleeping bags/quilts with insulation that performs better when compressed. Loft values count for nothing in these situations. If this is the case I would like to see...

...synthetic backed down jackets.
...sythetic footbox on nunatak style arc quilts
...synthetic bums on down pants
...sythetic bottom filling on sleeping bags.

I think this area could be well explored scientifically and could mean quite appreciable improvements in insulative gear performance.

Jeffrey Snyder
(jeffsnyder) - F
Re: Synthetic/Down hybrids on 10/24/2007 21:38:03 MDT Print View

I think that down and synthetic fills will provide essentially no insulation when compressed. I guess fleece would provide a small amount of insulation since it doesn't compress completely, but would hardly be worth the weight in that capacity. The only thing that will provide insulation in this use would be something that doesn't compress much, i.e. foam insulation.

Douglas McCoy
(dmccoy) - F

Locale: Spokane Wa
Panniers on 10/24/2007 23:16:48 MDT Print View

I would love to see some LW Panniers for my touring bike. Sylnylon would be too fragile but dyneema would probably be just the ticket. Just a simple "grocery bag" style with some carbon support rods and a thin "plastic bottom" placed inside for shape and support would be great. Maybe a mesh outer pocket for maps and quick grab items but nothing else. Simple design and straight forward engineering is what is needed. Not all these bells and whistles. Somewhere around a pound or less would be wonderfull, isntead of the 3-4 pounds they are now. I apply the same philosophy to bike touring as I do to Bping. The lighter the better.

A back pack that integrates into a bivy would be cool.


***If I owned a sewing machine (come on tax time) I would sew them myself, amongst a ton of other items.***

Thomas Delker
(tdelker) - F

Locale: Colorado
Person with the "leaky" event on 10/25/2007 19:33:26 MDT Print View

I was just looking to see if anyone else was having an issue with the event leaking, and noticed this discussion. I am in fact the person who apparently has posted everywhere about how his event leaked (whiteblaze originally and then on this board two times or so).

I actually would love to know if other people have been having the issue. I suspect that it was largely due to the extended use the jackets got on the AT with rather limited washing in comparison to how the jacket would normally be used.

Full disclosure. My wife's jacket did in fact get sprayed with RAID in fontana dam. When BOTH our jackets started to weep in the arms and at the back of the neck in the Shenandoahs, we thought it odd that somehow that issue affected BOTH jackets, but they did tend to get washed at the same time. We also didn't wash them quite as frequently as we could have (as we wore them when washing our other clothes). We contacted ID, they were super nice, and they sent us two new jackets and we sent our old ones back. I did ask that they contact us with their test results as I was very interested what they found. I gave them my email and phone, but never got a call back.

So, 2 new jackets. Then in Maine mine started leaking again. I definately tended to wear mine more than my wife wore hers. Of course it takes a pretty serious rain before you REALLY notice the jacket is leaking, and it was the remnants of Katrina that was dumping rain on is, but it was very obvious that both were again leaking, mainly in the arms and the neck area. This is also the area that you expect to be most heavily effected by the skin oils, eh?

I also send this email to Blight support to see if they were interested in testing my 'failed' jacket to see if they could dispel the 'myth' or confirm and maybe find the real problem.

"Hi Whomever,
My wife and I both have the intergral designs eVent rainjackets. On our AT thru last year they started to leak near the midpoint of our trip, and integral designs was great to us, and they shipped out new ones even before they got the old ones, but there were still some nasty wet cold days. Now it appears mine is leaking again. It seems like a total failure, not leaking at a seam, but rather a weeping through the entire jacket, with the neck and arms being worse.

I'm wondering, have you heard of anything similar? Seems strange that this is now the 3rd jacket between 2 of us that has had this problem. We have washed them in the past. I'm wondering if you have the interest in examining and seeing if you can determine if, in fact, the jacket is truly weeping. It sure feels like it though. I wonder if the event is actually suffering from the same failure mode as orginal PTFE had - oil from the skin causing the water to wick through...

Let me know..."

They responded : "Dear Thomas,
Hmm, that does seem strange. I'll reassign this to Don, our clothing editor. He may have more information for you, or may simply want to know more about your experience. You should be hearing from him soon!"

I did get an email from him, but it was something to the effect, "I'm too busy now, I'll get back to you."


I still have this jacket. I really am loath to take it on an extended trip, but it is in fact my only rain jacket at the moment. I've been lucky enough to not have been in a rain storm since Maine...

I'm not trying to start a panic, but I am trying to see if anyone else out there has had a similar experience. I imagine that enough of these jackets have seen long hikes that we should have a good statistical basis by now. I would like to hear reports either way actually.

Anyway, just thought that I would speak up and let Thruhikers know that there MIGHT be an issue with the jacket on extended trips.

I actually have seen NO responses to my posts in those threads. Strange that the only response was in this thread, not officially about this topic at all.

Gravity (and Danger) GAME 2005

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Person with the "leaky" event on 10/25/2007 21:19:30 MDT Print View

Thomas - I have used one Lowe Alpine eVENT rain suit for 2 different 1 1/2 month long Alaskan coast expeditions and 2 seasons of down hill skiing. I did not experience any problems.

I would like to define what you mean by, "leakage". Please conduct the following tests.

1. In the areas you experienced “leakage”; hold them under the faucet for a minute. Did all of the moisture run off the surface or is it visibly damp (wet out)?

2. Create a depression in the area you experienced "leakage" and fill that area with water. Hold it up and look underneath of the material to see if you detect water dripping (membrane porosity)?

3. Is the seam tape intact where you experienced "leakage" (manufacturing error)?

4. Is the outer fabric or inner liner abraded where you experienced "leakage" (membrane integrity).

Klas Eklof
(klaseklof) - MLife

Locale: Northern California
Back to the wish list - II on 10/27/2007 00:11:27 MDT Print View

If Only Someone Made... 2 more Packs:

1. Exactly the pack that Aaron described above. Overnight running pack, ~1500ci + side pockets (for bottles/map), no belt, no pad, RIDES HIGH for comfort at speed. I love the Revelation for walking and climbing but with 10-12 lbs it is too tall and low for running.

2. SUL day running pack. ~800ci + side pockets (for bottles/map), fragile silnylon, no belt, removable thin pad. Examples by Nathan, Ultimate Direction, and Solomon are just way too heavy and complicated. The purpose of the pack is to carry 3 pounds max of clothes/food/gear + water, but no sleeping/bivy gear, for a distance of 20-100 miles over 5-48 hours.

Thank you for caring enough to ask the community for our ideas.

Edited by klaseklof on 10/27/2007 00:32:38 MDT.

jim mayor
(jimmayor007) - F
Re: Back to the wish list - II on 10/27/2007 08:44:15 MDT Print View

I think I found one like you describe here on ebay.

http://rss.api.ebay.com/ws/rssapi?FeedName=SearchResults&siteId=0&language=en-US&output=RSS20&catref=C5&sacqy=&sacur=0&fsop=1&fsoo=1&from=R6&saobfmts=exsif&_trksid=m37&sacqyop=ge&saslc=0&floc=1&sabfmts=0&saprclo=&saprchi=&saaff=afcj&ftrv=1&ftrt=1&fcl=3&frpp=50&afcj=2212781&nojspr=y&satitle=Jansport+2L+Hydration+Back+Pack&afmp=&sacat=-1&saslop=1&fss=0

Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
Re: Synthetic/Down hybrids on 10/27/2007 11:07:26 MDT Print View

How about making a quilt with Prequilted Primaloft One on the top and only stitch it to the outside edges of the quilt.

Then sew the baffles on the bottom of the Prequilt and the bottom section of the fabric of the quilt.

The down will easly lift the Prequilt without a loss of loft.
Now you have a stitch free hybrid quilt that you do not have to use a bivy with.

One more thing I would love to see (#3 on the list) would be a single 1 man tent as everyone else has been mentioning.
I've made a 10 ounce single enclosed tent, (except bottom), but would love to get my hands on a tent like the
Gogo from Nemo with Cuben material.


Hey Klas,
A SUL running pack you described could very easily be the Nathan 020 if they just add pockets and took out the sleeve for the bladder. Of course lighter material and removal of the pad would cut the weight a lot but it would only weight 7 ounces and is extremly cumffy up to about 6 lbs.

Edited by awsorensen on 10/27/2007 16:52:23 MDT.

Brett .
(Brett1234) - F

Locale: CA
Dan, thanks, Ill give them a call on 10/28/2007 08:13:19 MDT Print View

..regarding those uninsulated glove shells!

Paul Tree
(Paul_Tree) - F

Locale: Wowwww
if only someone made a bivy tent that was actually lightweight! on 10/29/2007 15:54:41 MDT Print View

They all weigh a fair amount..
One third mesh, one third event, one third silnylon. Roll to adjust, above treeline just fold it over on yourself for warmth.. or take out the bug mesh panel to convert to bivy. Tall enough to shed snow?concept only
CONCEPT ONLY

Edited by Paul_Tree on 10/29/2007 16:35:20 MDT.

Andrew Wolff
(Andrew)

Locale: Chattanooga
Re: If Only Someone Made A.....Travel Pack on 10/30/2007 20:59:18 MDT Print View

I would love a UL Travel pack. Something that could go as checked baggage and then be good to go for town or trail. 3000 cu/in, front panel loading, straps can be zipped away for airline travel with no other exterior mesh or encumberences other than a carry handle, ripstop fabric, 1 lb or less. Ron, my wife and I travelled extensivelly this summer with your Zip pack in Australia and Fiji and loved it, it went with us on busses and ferry's - through town and into the bush. Make something along these lines that I don't have to put into a duffle bag to check onto the flight and I'll be your first customer.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
UL Travel Pack on 10/31/2007 06:54:58 MDT Print View

I'd rather have a real pack and protect it with a duffle. Given the habits of airline baggage handlers, a lightweight pack would get ripped, etc. The exterior pockets and straps that make a pack usable would suffer too. I have a couple travel packs, and they are okay, but I've only used them as packs while walking shorter distances to get from a train station to a hotel for example. Ultimately, they end up being heavier luggage and poor packs.

Patagonia makes an UL messenger bag that would be great for a carry on and around town. I prefer a shoulder bag in the city as they are better on buses, subways, negotiating crowds, etc. Wearing a backpack on a crowded subway car leaves you wiping the nose of the person behind you and getting a lesson in cussing in the local language:)

Thomas Knighton
(Tomcat1066) - F

Locale: Southwest GA
Re: UL Travel Pack on 10/31/2007 07:05:56 MDT Print View

>Wearing a backpack on a crowded subway car leaves you wiping the nose of the person behind you and getting a lesson in cussing in the local language:)

OK, now I HAVE to have a travel pack :D

Tom

Joshua Mitchell
(jdmitch) - F

Locale: Kansas
Re: UL Travel Pack on 10/31/2007 08:08:38 MDT Print View

Dale are you talking about the: Lightweight Travel Courier (near bottom of list)?

Alan Marcum
(ammpilot) - F

Locale: SF Bay Area
Re: Sub-2lbs double wall tent on 10/31/2007 13:08:42 MDT Print View

A bunch of folks have written regarding a sub-2lb or sub-3lb double-wall tent. Check out Stephenson's Warmlite. Small outfit in New Hampshire, 50 years old, single- and double-wall tents. Specs on the 2-person single-wall tent: 2 1/3 lbs; on the double-wall: 2 3/4 lbs. They also have a "compact" version, for climbers, that sheds a couple more ounces.

I am VERY pleased with my tent (a 2R: 2-person, double-wall). I've used it in the winter, too: it's great in wind when pitched properly. And it's plenty roomy, too.

http://www.warmlite.com is their Web site. (My only affiliation: a very happy customer.) See also the reader reviews.

Andrew Richardson
(arichardson6) - F

Locale: North East
Joan and Jack Stephenson look to have had some fun camping.. on 10/31/2007 13:40:09 MDT Print View

I love how the owners of warmlite are a wee bit exhibitionist.

Never before have I seen a catalog with various people naked! It's not offensive at all, quite the contrary, (I wouldn't mind testing out that sleeping bag on page 9 ;) and for some reason it seems to make sense. They are obviously some open minded, laid back individuals.

I'd bet that Jack and Joan have had some pretty memorable camping trips in their day! Good for them! It's refreshing to see such down home (naked) people making great products!

Edited by arichardson6 on 10/31/2007 13:44:59 MDT.