I've had good luck with the following:

1. Machine screws into your shoes (for dedicated running on snow/ice. They wear down quickly on rock but can be replaced in the field. Thickness depends on your shoes but generally 3/8-1/2". They will wear significantly on rock, somewhat on dirt, little on snow. I'd guess that 4-5 miles of dedicated rock use would wear them out. I like Matt's idea ( www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm ) of putting the screws in from the outside. This would appear to last much longer as there's more beefy metal outside. Thanks to Phil for this link.

1.5 REI has sold an instep crampon on a fastex buckled/webbing strap. It costs about $5 but you could make one yourself by getting two thick aluminum sheets about 2x3", folding the corners over, cutting two 1" holes near each end and feeding 1" webbing through these two holes and attaching a buckle to the webbing. It goes around your arch, is extremely lightweight, goes on and off easily.

These are pretty good on all but really icy stuff and sideslopes. On sideslopes they tend to slide around your shoe and end up pointing sideways! There's a lot of metal to wear down and these last pretty well. They go on/off so easily there's no reason to walk on any significant segments of rock. However I view them as for temporary use on shorter segments. I did climb the Mt. Lyell glacier with them.

2. CMI 4 point crampons (with neoprene straps)--11oz There are other 4 point crampons but the side holders keep them from slipping on side slopes. Have an integrated allen wrench for adjustment in the field.
http://www.cmi-gear.com/catalog/essentials/crampons.asp

These are durable and work well on most slopes. If you go straight up a slope (toe first) you won't engage the instep crampon so how steep you can use them depends on how flexible your ankles are and how steep you can keep up a flat foot (pied a plat) technique.

3. Kahtoola aluminum--18 oz. These work like a charm for everything but the steepest and iciest. They adjust quickly from running shoe to telemark boot size.

I've walked ~2 miles on rock with these. The teeth wear but I haven't had any broken.

I generally put crampons in a nylon stuff sack that fits them tightly with the teeth sides facing each other. The tight sack keeps them in this configuration and not pointing to and producing new holes in my pack.

Edited by ksawchuk on 01/17/2008 10:21:32 MST.

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for jumping in - See * questions below

I've had good luck with the following:

1. Machine screws into your shoes (for dedicated running on snow/ice. They wear down quickly on rock but can be replaced in the field.

* How long (say how many hours of running/hiking) do these typically last when using on a mix of snow/ice and rock?

* How long are the screws that you use?

1.5 REI has sold an instep crampon on a fastex buckled/webbing strap. It costs about $5 but you could make one yourself by getting two thick aluminum sheets about 2x3", folding the corners over, cutting two 1" holes near each end and feeding 1" webbing through these two holes and attaching a buckle to the webbing. It goes around your arch, is extremely lightweight, goes on and off easily.

* How good are these on very uneven surfaces and slopes that aren't very sharp

* How durable are these?

2. CMI 4 point crampons (with neoprene straps)--11oz There are other 4 point crampons but the side holders keep them from slipping on side slopes. Have an integrated allen wrench for adjustment in the field.
http://www.cmi-gear.com/catalog/essentials/crampons.asp

* How good are these on slopes and sharper surfaces?

* How delicate/durable are these when on a mix of ice and rock?

3. Kahtoola aluminum--18 oz. These work like a charm for everything but the steepest and iciest. They adjust quickly from running shoe to telemark boot size.

* How durable are these on a mix or ice and rock? I've read in this forum that the teeth on the aluminum Kahtoolas can break off easily on rock.

* What do you use to carry and secure your traction devices without damaging your pack?

E J, check this out... http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm

Detailed overview of how to make your own screw shoes.

Hi Phil,

I saw the thread earlier - thanks. I wanted to know what size screws Kevin and others used in the back and in the front of their shoes - 1/4, 3/8 or 1/2.

Also, while the screws will be helpful for a pair of winter running shoes, my wife and I use Keen Growlers for winter hiking and snowshoeing (they are surprisingly light and a joy to walk or snowshoe in), and we're looking for a more secure grip on uneven icy ground and slopes that the Kahtoola MicroSpikes and Steel and Aluminum cleats will best provide.


"Selecting Screws
Sheet metal screws are awesome because the head on them has a lip that really grips well on ice. This is important because the screws are inserted from the outside into the bottom of the shoe and it is the head of the screw that provides the traction—not the point! 1/2" long screws work fine in most shoes because they do not go through the shoe yet they are long enough that they don’t come out too easily. 3/8" screws might be a little safer in the fronts of some shoes. If you have a very thin shoe, or you are just paranoid about how thin the front of your shoe looks, then you can use 1/4" long screws. Be sure to buy a lot of them however because they come out rather easily. No matter what, do not use the screw pictured on the right!!!"

Please see above--I've edited my post to answer your questions.

EJ, I've settled on 3/8" for my screw shoes. The 1/2" poke right through my trail runners and the 1/4" fall out way too easily. The 3/8" screws will also work their way out so bring extra screws and a nut driver. You can get a box of 100 hex head screws at Home Depot for about four dollars.

E J, 3/8" is what I've used with a pair of Merrell trail shoes.

I have had good luck with these this year. Extremely comfortable because there is so little hardware underfoot. The carbide microspikes are very durable and grip like crazy. No problem to walk on ultra-slippery surfaces like beach logs, wet lichen on rock, or icy rock, even at steep angles.

http://www.surefoot.net/products.php?cat=89

Edited by richard.s on 01/22/2008 11:55:25 MST.

I haven't tried this brand, but I have tried a number of very similar designs and have had too much trouble falling on slight descents due to the placement of the spikes ahead of the place where I strike my heel. I also had durability problems with the spikes coming out and getting lost as well as being ineffective on fresh snow on top of ice. Anyone else have any experience with this design?

Edited by jimbluz on 01/22/2008 18:43:41 MST.

Hi EJ! Sorry for not being timely with my reply...got caught up with the demands of work, etc. The yaktrax work admirably well for me on standard regulation trails of, I'm guessing, 30% or less; some short sections tend to be considerably steeper. A previous writer stated that they slipped off his shoes; I have not experienced any problems with this, neither going up nor coming down. The grip was good, but then, the surface hasn't been pure ice, more like compacted "almost ice" snow. I don't think I'd trust 'em on an incline of ice. They're not crampons. Another writer said he used them going up a rock escarpment and they crapped out. They're not ment for that either as they're not technical gear. Basically, what you have are some big wire-wrapped rubber bands!

A lot has to do with the mechanics of how you walk. Some folks can go uphill on their skis while others just slide back. It all depends on your forward lean, foot placement and other intuitive parameters. So all these various ice walkers can allow you to be more sure-footed, but that doesn't mean you can throw caution to the wind.

As for the Grivels, I was mistaken. The G-10s are my steel ones. The aluminum Grivels are called the Air Tech Light crampon. So far, no problems, but since they're alloy I'm careful to keep them out of the rocks. Hey, how the heck do ya get rid of this stupid pencil?

Edited by TarasBulba on 01/22/2008 23:58:07 MST.

>>Anyone else have any experience with this design?

James, I've had the same experience as you.

I've worn Yaxtrax. and Yaxtrax Pros for a few winters. The Pros don't get lost as easily, but can get clogged with wet snow, and they do move around on my shoes, feels like slipping sometimes. Due North shoe covers are better, but I've lost spikes from those. Yes, it's possible to order more...I've had best luck with the shoe spike method others have mentioned found here: http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm and I've just found a better screw here, http://www.magicracing.com/Kold-Kutter-38-Ice-Racing-Screws-250-Pack_p_60111.html ,more expensive than hardware store sheet metal screws, but cheaper than any of the commercial shoe covers. One problem- if you think you might need snowshoes further up the mountain, you'll need to bring an extra pair of shoes, or invent a bootie to cover your studs, and protect the deck. It's not perfect. Just so you know, Breckenridge has the best early season snow in a decade, come see!